I’ll Be Seeing You (3x07: Athena Begins)
I'll find you in the morning sun and when the night is new I'll be looking at the moon, but I'll be seeing you.
This week Han, Cil, and Rachel discuss the super uplifting contents of Season 3 Episode 7 of 9-1-1, “Athena Begins.” We dive into Athena's past as she confronts the resurfacing of a cold case linked to the tragic loss of her fiancé, Emmett.
Have you rewatched this episode since 8x15? No? Well, strap in folks, because that bittersweet ending is not so sweet anymore. We explore the not inconsequential number of parallels between her quest for closure with Emmett and the emotional aftermath of Bobby’s death in Season 8. As she navigates the deluge of memories and unresolved feelings, we see her grappling with the desire for justice and her career, her relationship with her mother and extended family, and the expectations everyone places on her.
Through flashbacks, we see young Athena, vibrant and full of hope as she embarks on her journey in law school, contrasting sharply with the heavy burden she carries as an adult (2 dead loves of her life and 1 gay ex-husband later). We examine the road Athena takes from law school to the police academy, inspired after her meet-cute with Emmett on her college campus. Their story would almost pass for a rom-com if we didn’t know about the tragic ending going into it. We dissect the scene where Beatrice tries to control Athena’s life and how this juxtaposes with the mother we saw depicted in the rest of the flashbacks prior to Emmett’s death. Ah, there’s the Beatrice we know and barely tolerate.
In the present we follow Athena’s search for closure, not just for herself but for Emmett's mother. When she finds Dennis Jenkins, she is forced to face her assumptions about the “monster” who killed her fiancé. At the end of the journey, we see Athena finally break down and let Bobby support her, physically and emotionally.
Here’s a fun idea, listen to this episode, then watch 8x01, 8x02, 8x03, and then 8x16. Let us know if you can breathe through the tears!
📔 Articles Mentioned
📰 ‘9-1-1’s Angela Bassett Teases Athena’s Origin Story Episode, TV Insider
📰 ‘9-1-1’ Star Angela Bassett on Athena’s ‘Messy’ Romantic Backstory, Future With Bobby, The Wrap
Episode Title inspired by “I’ll Be Seeing You” by Billie Holiday
We are @buddiesystempod everywhere:
Watch The Buddie System podcast episodes and our live reactions to the most recent 9-1-1 episodes on YouTube!
Support us on Patreon or Ko-Fi for perks and extra content like access to our exclusive Discord, Fire Fam Chats, New 9-1-1 Episode Livestreams, and more!
The Buddie System is a Nerdvergent Media production.
Music by DIV!NITY
Chapters
(00:00:00) Intro
(00:00:52) Welcome to Dispatch
(00:01:29) General Thoughts
(00:08:54) Jaws of Life - Deep Dive
(00:13:03) Needle Drop - Song Analysis
(00:16:03) Red String Corner
(00:17:53) Historical Context of 1992 Los Angeles Riots
(00:22:27) Parallels & Foreshadowing
(00:25:16) Season 8 Parallels
(00:30:18) Flashover - Themes
(00:34:04) Who’s Cookin’? - Character Arcs
(00:35:24) Bobby & Michael
(00:44:19) Athena
(00:48:53) Meeting Emmett & Rookie Athena
(00:56:55) Athena Has a Type (Good Men™️)
(01:06:25) Athena & Maddie Go Old School
(01:09:45) Athena Throws Herself into Her Work
(01:12:04) Opening Pandora’s Box About Emmett
(01:16:20) Past & Present Closure Montage
(01:19:42) Where’s The Fire? - Scene Dissection (Athena & Bea After Emmett’s Death)
(01:33:06) Athena & Mom Bea’s Relationship Now
(01:37:030 Slow Burn - Bi Buck & Buddie Watch
(01:41:14) Buddie & Bathena Parallels
(01:50:35) Take a Buddie With You & Outro
Transcript
This week we talk about Athena's journey to becoming a first responder, how Athena.
Speaker B:Handles the cold case of her dead.
Speaker C:Fiance resurfacing, and the heartbreaking parallels to season eight and Bobby's death.
Speaker B:Have you ever watched something that completely rewired your brain chemistry?
Speaker C:A procedural network drama might not be your usual pick, but it's ours.
Speaker A:This is the Buddy System, a 911 deep dive podcast hosted by three friends who have DMed each other enough character dissertations to to earn a PhD in media literacy.
Speaker B:I'm Han, coming to you straight from the characters heads.
Speaker C:I'm Syl, bringing you to the observation deck.
Speaker A:And I'm Rachel, connecting the dots with my red string.
Speaker B:With our powers combined, no stone is.
Speaker A:Left unturned and no buddy is left behind.
Speaker B:This episode brought to you by the Hurt, no comfort tag.
Speaker B:Welcome to Dispatch.
Speaker B:What's it called this week?
Speaker C: ,: Speaker A:So because this is a Begins episode, we don't really have calls of the week.
Speaker A:I'm going to call it our case of the week because it's really just about one thing, and it is a break in a cold case uncovers a secret from Athena's past, and she takes on the case to find closure.
Speaker C:Sounds familiar.
Speaker A:So I guess with that being said, I think this episode has taken on some new, different meaning after the events of Season 8.
Speaker A:How did you guys find rewatching this episode?
Speaker A:Hard.
Speaker A:Difficult?
Speaker C:Messy.
Speaker C:I'm sorry.
Speaker A:Why did you say that?
Speaker C:No, that's a natural response.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker C:I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt.
Speaker C:I'm just making jokes because, like, what else am I supposed to do around here anyway?
Speaker A:Says I'm special.
Speaker C:Okay, well, I can tell you one thing.
Speaker C:When I first watched it last year, okay, so, like, I don't think I cried when I first watched it.
Speaker C:I definitely.
Speaker C:Because Athena is your girl.
Speaker C:My girl.
Speaker C:I think.
Speaker C:I think it's one of those characters that I like.
Speaker C:I can't say always my favorite, but, like, it's one of those that, like, I feel, like, a connection to kind of like Eddie.
Speaker C:So, like, I felt really deeply for, like, what she was going through and, like, this whole experience that, you know, that she went through.
Speaker C:But I don't think I cried that time when I first watched it the second time with this fucking context that we got.
Speaker C:Yeah, that.
Speaker C:That hurt me.
Speaker C:That hurt me deeply.
Speaker C:And I hate it here.
Speaker A:And we'll We'll.
Speaker C:We'll talk more about why I hate it here, but.
Speaker C:Yeah, no, I mean, overall, I think it's a.
Speaker C:I think it's a pretty solid episode.
Speaker C:Kristen Rydell always at the scene of the crime because, of course, she's the one who wrote this.
Speaker B:This is a very good episode, but it was already depressing, and now it makes me want to just take a.
Speaker B:A short siesta from life.
Speaker A:Oh.
Speaker B:Living just a little bit.
Speaker C:After I watched the episode, I said, please, someone, and I don't want to live no more.
Speaker B:I don't want to live in a world where she can't run, no breakdown, and she has no one in her.
Speaker A:Bobby's arms.
Speaker A:God.
Speaker B:She has no one to, like, hold her while she breaks down anymore.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker C:Well, hen.
Speaker A:But it's not the same.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Anyway, I.
Speaker B:I love how different her origin story is from everyone else.
Speaker B:I love.
Speaker B:I think I forgot because I think I did only watch it the one time last year.
Speaker B:I think I forgot that she was in law school, which makes sense for her because she's obsessed with the law, except for when it needs to apply to her.
Speaker A:She knows how.
Speaker A:She understands the loophole.
Speaker B:Yes, yes, yes.
Speaker B:Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker B:It was.
Speaker B:And I can't.
Speaker B:What's the actress's name who plays young Athena?
Speaker A:It's Pepe Sunny.
Speaker B:She's incredible.
Speaker A:I probably pronounced that incorrectly.
Speaker A:I'm so sorry.
Speaker B:She's fucking incredible in this.
Speaker B:And, you know, seeing her again in season eight as well, so a really good casting.
Speaker B:A lot of pressure.
Speaker B:Play young Angela Bassett.
Speaker C:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:But she delivered.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker B:It's a really good episode, but it's really fucking depressing.
Speaker B:That's.
Speaker B:That's what I got.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I think.
Speaker A:I don't know if this is a hot take.
Speaker A:I think this is my favorite Begins episode.
Speaker A:I mean, besides Buck, but, like, I think this is, like, one of the best Begins episodes.
Speaker A:I think it's like.
Speaker A:Like one.
Speaker A:Maybe one of the strongest episodes of.
Speaker A:Of the series.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:I have, like, no notes for it.
Speaker A:I think it's, like, a fantastic episode.
Speaker A:Oh, my gosh.
Speaker A:It was just.
Speaker A:It's so hard to watch out.
Speaker A:Like, it was hard to watch in the first place, but now it's even worse.
Speaker A:Oh, boy.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So we're.
Speaker A:We're also going to, I think, talk a lot about season eight parallels.
Speaker A:So if.
Speaker A:If you haven't caught up on that, prepare thyself for spoiler territory.
Speaker A:Not that we're not spoiler Full anyways, but in a.
Speaker A:In a major, major way.
Speaker B:I think I did cry the first time I watched this, like, a little bit, but I was like.
Speaker B:It was like the, like, concerning.
Speaker B:Can't breathe, ugly cry today.
Speaker B:It was not great.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:I literally was like, I need to watch thirst tweets right now.
Speaker B:I have to shift gears because I am not okay.
Speaker B:I can't just sit here and keep crying about Athena.
Speaker C:I was trying to hold it in so hard so nobody could hear me.
Speaker B:But it was like.
Speaker C:Like, you know, like the bri.
Speaker C:Like, I.
Speaker C:Yeah, I couldn't breathe.
Speaker C:It was not great.
Speaker A:How did I get through this episode?
Speaker A:Like, better.
Speaker A:Better than you guys.
Speaker C:What do you mean?
Speaker C:I think we cried at the same time.
Speaker C:No, we just talked about this.
Speaker C:No, but because I didn't.
Speaker C:Oh, you weren't like, ugly crying, like.
Speaker A:For a long period of time?
Speaker A:It was.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker A:Like, I had a harder Time watching 800 1, 2 and 3 for.
Speaker A:For our rap than I did.
Speaker A:But it's.
Speaker A:It's probably just because I was watching it last night after our livestream.
Speaker A:So I was just like, gotta get it done and then go to bed.
Speaker C:Yeah, I was.
Speaker C:I think I said this earlier this week.
Speaker C:I was like, I really kind of.
Speaker C:I kind of want to watch the cruise ship hard.
Speaker A:No more pain.
Speaker A:Oh, my God.
Speaker C:That's what I like to put myself through after something like this happens.
Speaker C:Like, I have to do it.
Speaker C:It's for me.
Speaker A:You really do embody hurt.
Speaker A:No comfort.
Speaker B:I need the comfort I need.
Speaker B:I'm a happy ending.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:So it was all uncomfortable for me.
Speaker C:It's just that the.
Speaker C:The death really recontextualizes everything so much.
Speaker A:So much.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:It's really inconvenient for a rewatch podcast.
Speaker A:Eh?
Speaker A:Why does this keep happening?
Speaker A:Like, we could have rewatched this at any point.
Speaker A:It just.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:Now we're living in a.
Speaker A:In a bobbyless world and this is what we have to deal with now.
Speaker B:I'm unhinged.
Speaker C:Is that going on a shirt?
Speaker C:We live in a bobbyless world.
Speaker B:My brain took that and went, I'm a Bobby girl.
Speaker B:That could also.
Speaker C:Okay, that could be.
Speaker C:That could be a shirt now.
Speaker C:Oh, my God.
Speaker A:No, that's the shadow.
Speaker B:The saddest in the Barbie font.
Speaker A:No, just like the saddest edit to the most, like, not matching song.
Speaker A:Like, like all of the footage from, like, the funeral to the.
Speaker A:What is wrong with my brain?
Speaker B:No one would find that entertaining other than us, but I was hilarious personally.
Speaker A:I'm so sorry.
Speaker A:I'M running off.
Speaker A:Not a lot of.
Speaker C:I'm about to pull up Sony Vegas.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker A:Oh, okay.
Speaker A:I'm your Bobby.
Speaker B:I should be writing the whole song.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Someone would find this funny.
Speaker A:That's her.
Speaker A:That's our next parody.
Speaker A:I could probably.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Make a whole parody of that song.
Speaker B:I'm a Bobby girl.
Speaker B:Depressing but funny.
Speaker C:We don't do this.
Speaker C:This is how we cope.
Speaker B:Coping mechanism.
Speaker C:Yeah, we laugh.
Speaker B:We're gonna need the Jaws of life over here anyway.
Speaker C:Jaws of life.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:Talking about press, because this was a very Athena heavy episode.
Speaker A:We have a couple interviews with Angela Bassett.
Speaker A:I found three interviews that I want to touch on.
Speaker A:One is from TV Insider, TV Line, and the Rap.
Speaker A:They're all basically about the same stuff.
Speaker A:So I'll pull a couple.
Speaker A:Just a couple quotes from.
Speaker A:From those.
Speaker A:So in terms of, like, some production stuff, it was kind of interesting because Angela Bassett said that they actually shot the.
Speaker A:This episode out of order.
Speaker A:So they shot it earlier in the process of season three.
Speaker A:So it's being aired as the seventh episode, but it was really the fourth one that they filmed.
Speaker A:And I was like, oh, we know a little bit about that.
Speaker A:Which.
Speaker A:Which is interesting, right?
Speaker A:And I'm sure it has to do with, like, availabilities and everything like that.
Speaker A:So I did look and I went to, like, the Futon Critic, which has, like, all of the listings and the production codes.
Speaker A:And it did have Athena Begins as production code 304.
Speaker A:So that immediately followed 301, kids today, 302, sink or swim, and 303, the searchers.
Speaker A:And I also found that interesting because I kind of figured they would have done 302 and 303 before 301.
Speaker A:But it all, like at the end with the.
Speaker A:Of 301, with the.
Speaker A:With the pier.
Speaker A:So I guess.
Speaker A:I guess it's all.
Speaker A:It's all there.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker A:But I think that is really interesting because I know we've had in season 8, the episode 15 just pop up a couple move up, I think, like two episodes.
Speaker A:But this is.
Speaker A:This is a little more than that.
Speaker A:So I thought that was interesting as well.
Speaker A:And then Angela also talked about that she was involved in casting for Young Athena.
Speaker A:And the.
Speaker A:The director makes sense, right?
Speaker A:The director, Tasha Smith, gave her an opportunity to weigh in on the casting, which is not usually what they do, but with this episode being the first one that they had different actors portraying, you know, the younger versions of people.
Speaker A:Whereas, like in.
Speaker A:In Hen Begins and Chimney Begins, Aisha and Kenny played themselves.
Speaker A:But this one was a little different.
Speaker A:So Angela was thrilled to have that opportunity and said there was something very special about.
Speaker A:Again, I believe her name is Pepe Sanuga.
Speaker A:She said the naivety, the naivete, the excitement, the enthusiasm, subtle performances.
Speaker A:She brought a lot of class.
Speaker A:And I think she is continued to be like an amazing actress.
Speaker A:Like, how can.
Speaker A:How can you fill Angela Bassett shoes?
Speaker A:Like that is a tall order.
Speaker A:And I think she.
Speaker A:I think she really delivered.
Speaker A:And anytime we see the flashbacks of.
Speaker A:Of young Athena and they bring her back is incredible.
Speaker A:From some of the other articles we also got, Angela said that the.
Speaker A:The origins kind of help explain the relationship between Athena and her mom and why there's some tension there and how it maybe explains how she could not see or refuse to see or have blinders on in terms of Michael's sexuality because he claims somewhere in there that Athena knew.
Speaker A:So what her awareness was in terms of that.
Speaker A:It's just a very human and complicated and messy story.
Speaker A:The story of Emmett and.
Speaker A:And also talked about how arresting Dennis Jenkins is in line with who Athena is.
Speaker A:Angela said, I think it helps with her closure of that that she wasn't able to deal with something.
Speaker A:She had to hide away, tuck away, not speak of for 30 years.
Speaker A:So I don't think there was a world in which she would have let him go, although she can appreciate the turn of his life and accept his humanity.
Speaker A:And I think we see kind of like a follow up to that in the opening of season eight as well, which is kind of interesting.
Speaker A:All right, so going into our needle drop.
Speaker B:So there's a lot of really good songs in this episode.
Speaker B: Most of them are from: Speaker B:We have Express Yourself by NWA at the college Fair.
Speaker B:We have Bust Move by Young MC when she's like, out eating with Emmett, talking about, like, the statistics of, like, women on the force.
Speaker B:We have Ladies first by Queen Latifah and Money Love when it's like her first couple weeks, like the montage of her, like, at the beginning of her career.
Speaker B:And then we also have a Back to Life, however Do youo Want Me by Soul to Soul.
Speaker B: hat we have that are not from: Speaker B:I love that song.
Speaker B:And that's playing in the montage of like, Athena and Maddie going through all the old vlogs.
Speaker B: That's from: Speaker B: p by Andra Day, which is from: Speaker B:It's such a good Athena Song.
Speaker B:I'm not gonna read a lot of the lyrics because I don't want to cry.
Speaker B:But you should listen to it and think about Athena, because I think it has always described her as a person.
Speaker B:It definitely describes what she goes through here.
Speaker B:And I think it still also applies to her right now in season eight, season nine.
Speaker B:But it's just talking about how, like, life beats you down, but life beats you down, but this person is a fighter and, like, they're going to keep getting back up over and over again, no matter like, what comes at them.
Speaker A:Oh, this.
Speaker A:It's a tear song.
Speaker B:It's a really, really good song.
Speaker B:But, like, I think that's what, like.
Speaker B:I mean, obviously the story triggers me.
Speaker B:I'm more of an emotional crier with music than I am with, like, other forms of media.
Speaker B:So when they get me with a really good media drop, like a really good needle drop along with the story and whatever's happening, that's how they can destroy me personally.
Speaker B:This was one of those moments because Bobby's just like, holding her while she finally, like, breaks down.
Speaker A:Oh, we'll get to that.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, it did kind of remind me.
Speaker A:It has the same kind of feeling as this tragedy is not the end of the story from, you know, the end montage of.
Speaker A:Of 8, 18, like a different, different message, but it still.
Speaker A:It kind of carries the same, like a similar.
Speaker B:Yeah, this one's more individualistic, I think.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:It's not even about having support, really.
Speaker B:It's just about, like finding the strength in yourself, yourself to pick yourself up no matter what happens and to keep going and keep fighting.
Speaker B:Always keep fighting.
Speaker A:Why you guys did that to me the other day?
Speaker A:Like, I don't.
Speaker A:Goodbye.
Speaker A:I've been voted off the podcast again.
Speaker B:You're gonna corner and think about what you did.
Speaker A:Oh, my God.
Speaker A:I've connected the dots now.
Speaker A:I think we can get out her little red string corner.
Speaker A:It should just be like the Athena murder board corner.
Speaker A:Actually, no, it shouldn't.
Speaker A:Forget I said that.
Speaker A:Moving on.
Speaker A:So before I get into like the foreshadowing and parallels, like inter season sort of stuff, I did kind of want to touch on some of the real life references that kind of got hinted at earlier in the episode and then became more of a.
Speaker A:It had more of an impact throughout, so.
Speaker A:Well, well, the first.
Speaker A:Okay, so the first thing is actually just like a production thing.
Speaker A:So in season two, we mentioned that all of the Begins episodes with Hen Chimney and Bobby Begins again, they were all directed by Jen lynch, so she did all of those.
Speaker A:However, this one for Athena is directed by, we mentioned Tasha Smith who, who is an actress and a director and she's seen in Empire.
Speaker A:She was in, she was in Jumping the Broom with Angela Bassett.
Speaker A:And I think this was really interesting because Angela said in one of the interviews that Tasha Smith is one of her dearest girlfriends.
Speaker A:You know, Angela Bassett and Tasha Smith obviously have had a working relationship in the past.
Speaker A:Like they've started in a movie, maybe, maybe more than one together.
Speaker A:So I think this is probably, probably like a great pair up for director actor with that focus and, and it makes sense because I think, I think the care for Athena's story really, really shines through with, with this and that probably has a lot to do with, with their, with their friendship and, and relationship there.
Speaker B:That makes sense.
Speaker A:Talking about like the, the real life references that were made in this episode.
Speaker A: that they've been since like: Speaker A:And he says let's try not to shoot anyone until the 90s.
Speaker A: Well, in: Speaker A:I'm not going to get too into it.
Speaker A:I'm just, I just want to give like a little bit of context because it does play, it does play into the story pretty, pretty heavily.
Speaker A:And, and I think a lot of why Athena remained an officer.
Speaker A:So, and, and again there's, there's a lot of nuance here.
Speaker A:This is just like the really like glossed over and nothing happens in a vacuum.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So I think there were also just like, you know, tensions, you know, getting heightened for other, other related things as well.
Speaker A: rd of: Speaker A:And that was the Rodney King incident where Rodney King and two passengers were involved in a high speed pursuit after a failed traffic traffic stop initiation.
Speaker A:And it was later acknowledged that he did not surrender earlier because he was driving while intoxicated, which violated terms of parole for a robbery conviction that he was on.
Speaker A:So there was like a high speed chase going down the highway.
Speaker A:And Rodney King was a black man as well.
Speaker A:So there were five officers, three of them were white, two were Hispanic and they surrounded Rodney King's vehicle and upon exiting he was tasered.
Speaker A:He was struck dozens of times with batons, kick, stomped, tackled and hogtied.
Speaker A:Like very violent incident.
Speaker A:There was also a 12 minute video being recorded by a bystander across the street.
Speaker A: trial that, that occurred in: Speaker A:And the whole, the whole thing, the whole trial and incident caught nationwide news attention.
Speaker A: ,: Speaker A:And that really, I think there were already like some protests happening throughout the trial.
Speaker A:But that, that acquittal really like kind of sparked a flame and there were massive just like riots for you know, those like three or four days.
Speaker A:Like they had to call in the National Guard.
Speaker A:There was, there was not a lot.
Speaker A:There was basically like nothing done to, to kind of mitigate or to, to de.
Speaker A:Escalate things.
Speaker A:So throughout, throughout the Los Angeles riots, there were 63 people that were killed, about 2,383 that were injured.
Speaker A:12,000 arrests were made at that time.
Speaker A:And there were estimated up to a billion dollars in damages.
Speaker A:So that's kind of what they're referencing a few times in this episode.
Speaker A:And we see that kind of just little line drop with the let's try not to shoot anyone until the 90s.
Speaker A:And then it, and then it becomes a little more defin.
Speaker A:Like we like we see the, the footage or, or Athena watching the footage later on in the episode.
Speaker A:So that I think has, has a lot of bearing on, on like the, the historical context of this episode, especially because it's, it's the flashbacks and everything like that.
Speaker A:So that again just very glossed over.
Speaker A:There's a lot more nuance to that.
Speaker A:There were rising tensions and a bunch of other things, but we're not here.
Speaker B:Or qualified to, to deliver that information in the way that it needs to be.
Speaker B:But just to touch on it so that there is some context for people who aren't aware, like especially people who listen who aren't from the States.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:So that is like the very TLDR version of that.
Speaker A:So kind of switching gears now we can talk a little bit more about like foreshadowing and parallels in this episode.
Speaker A:I think in, in terms of foreshadowing, there's more Tanya Kingston lore drop.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Which we originally heard about a couple of times in like season two.
Speaker A:Athena and her mom talked about it and I think there was another conversation even earlier, but I forget what episode that was.
Speaker A:So, so there's, it's, it's a callback to that, but it's also like continued foreshadowing because we know that they will, you know, go, go and go more into the Tanya Kingston case in early season six.
Speaker A:So they're just, they're still just like really like building the lore there, which I appreciate.
Speaker A:And then we have a lot of parallels.
Speaker A:So I'll, I'll talk about some of the, the ones not from season eight first, because there are a lot from season eight.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:So parallels to 209, which is hen begins.
Speaker A:And I thought it was important to touch on because like Hen Athena in you know, the late 80s, early 90s is also a woman, a person of color in a white dominated, white male dominated field.
Speaker A:And she has to work that much harder to earn respect.
Speaker A:So I thought there was a lot of, there's tie in there.
Speaker A:Of course, that's one of the reasons why Athena and Hen, you know, identify with each other so much.
Speaker A:And then we see again in 2:11, which is new Beginnings, which is where we meet Athena's parents.
Speaker A:So Athena and Bea, we know that there was a rift that, that occurred because Athena felt compelled to be a good cop for the right reasons.
Speaker A:And her mom didn't really know or care to know her daughter at all.
Speaker A:Like she didn't see her.
Speaker A:So trying to like mend that relationship.
Speaker A:And, and in this episode we kind of like see how that, see how that rift happens.
Speaker A:And then kind of a continuation from season three, episode five, which was Rage, where we saw the bad traffic stop with Michael and Harry and May in the car as well.
Speaker A:So that also kind of like narratively and thematically ties into the stuff with the Rodney King incident and the LA riots and just how like that kind of thing is still so pervasive.
Speaker A: now, the LA riots happened in: Speaker A:So I thought that was important to, to link back to.
Speaker A:Okay, so now we're going to talk about a little bit of season eight.
Speaker A:I'll just briefly mention these and then we'll probably get more into it as we're actually discussing.
Speaker A:I'm just like the, the way that season eight recontextualizes this episode specifically is, is actually like mind boggling.
Speaker A:And it makes me.
Speaker B:If only we had recorded this in March.
Speaker A:It would.
Speaker A:And that's, and that's the thing because it would have been, it would have been a totally different episode if we had been.
Speaker A:If we had done this at any other time.
Speaker A:This would have been a different episode.
Speaker A:But now that we have season eight and the way it ended and this.
Speaker A:It's just like, whoa.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:So I just want to kind of like, touch on these and we can get more into.
Speaker A:As we discuss Athena's character stuff.
Speaker A:In the opening of season eight, obviously we see Dennis Jenkins again.
Speaker A:So that is a direct tie to Athena Begins, like, hello, in 802 specifically, which is when the Boeing gets tough.
Speaker A:We see.
Speaker A:I think that's when we see the flashback to Emmett's funeral.
Speaker A:And that's when they brought back Pepe as well, who did, again, amazing job as young Athena every time.
Speaker A:But it's also interesting because we didn't see the funeral in Athena Begins.
Speaker A:So interesting how they decided to insert that in season eight specifically for reasons.
Speaker A:For reasons.
Speaker A:Then we have from 803 the parallel of Dennis taking the bullet for Bobby.
Speaker A:So it's.
Speaker A:It's kind of paralleled a bunch of stuff because it not only parallels like.
Speaker A:Like his.
Speaker A:Like his absolution and making up for shooting Emmett as well, but it also parallels like he finally gets that chance to.
Speaker A:To right things that are wrong by protecting Bobby for Athena.
Speaker A:Is that kind of what you were thinking about?
Speaker A:Okay, great.
Speaker A:We have 8 11, which is holy Mother of God, where Athena's mom Bea claims that Athena joined the force for a man who's dead.
Speaker A:And she says verbatim, don't follow him into the grave.
Speaker A:Which ties into what Bobby's mom said about not feeling guilty for leaving Bobby and his dad and because she didn't want to follow his father into the grave and burying herself with him.
Speaker A:And I was like, oh, that was.
Speaker A:That was a little wild to me.
Speaker A:And then.
Speaker A:And then we have like, oh, parallels to 8:15, 8:16, 8:17, 8:18.
Speaker C:The shit where.
Speaker A:Where Athena loses.
Speaker C:Where's the bre.
Speaker A:Break?
Speaker A:No break.
Speaker B:No comfort up in this right now.
Speaker A:Major hurt.
Speaker A:No comfort.
Speaker A:It's just like, oh, Athena lost Emmett while he was.
Speaker A:They were basically on the job, losing Bobby on the job.
Speaker A:Athena mourning and grieving her lost love.
Speaker A:The way also in like, 16 through 18, the way Athena treats Jenkins and Chimney are very similar.
Speaker A:Like, she has a lot of kind of.
Speaker A:She's like, shut down.
Speaker A:She's angry, she's disappointed, like, almost this animosity.
Speaker A:And it's just interesting that, like, she's treating someone who is guilty of a crime with the same kind of thing that she treats a friend for a little bit, but then.
Speaker A:But then, like, chimney and her makeup, but just.
Speaker A:Just kind of interesting the way.
Speaker A:The way that Athena goes about, you know, interacting with people who she kind of not Puts blame on but, like, sees as a kind of guilty party almost.
Speaker A:And then in 8:16, when she.
Speaker A:When Athena collapses into Hen's arms after, you know, she goes on her little case with the mom and.
Speaker A:And the baby, and she collapses into Hen's arms like she did into Bobby's with this episode, but he's not there anymore to catch her and to support her and.
Speaker C:Okay, Alexa, play I Hate It Here by Taylor Swift.
Speaker B:Where's the secret garden in your mind?
Speaker B:It's not 911.
Speaker A:It's in the backyard of the Bethena house.
Speaker A:Oh, wait to stop.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And I'm sure there are more, and we'll.
Speaker A:We'll, like, get into that as well.
Speaker A:But, like, those are some of the major ones.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Basically all of the last, like, five episodes.
Speaker A:Four or five episodes of season eight.
Speaker A:Just.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker C:Again, I would like for someone to take me out.
Speaker A:Literally.
Speaker B:Please put us out of our misery.
Speaker A:Just.
Speaker A:Just the.
Speaker A:Anyways, so that's.
Speaker A:That's all.
Speaker A:I'm gonna touch on parallels for right now.
Speaker A:Now I guess we can talk about themes which are also so fun.
Speaker A:So fun.
Speaker A:Not at all sad.
Speaker C:Flashover.
Speaker A:All right, so for themes, it was actually kind of interesting because I think I found a lot of similar themes with the episode 207 Haunted, which, if we recall, was last season's, like, Halloween episode.
Speaker A:That's the episode where Hen was confronted with her dad, who was in a coma.
Speaker A:The hiker ghost call where Athena had to notify his next of kin.
Speaker A:We had Shannon and Eddie, all.
Speaker A:All of this.
Speaker A:All of this stuff, like, kind of coming back.
Speaker A:So I found.
Speaker A:I found a lot of similarities in the themes with that one.
Speaker A:And it also does kind of make sense because obviously, like, this is something from Athena's past coming back up.
Speaker A:So first theme, similar to 207, is being haunted by your past.
Speaker A:And Athena even brings up to Hen when they're.
Speaker A:When they're having lunch.
Speaker A:The thing that.
Speaker A:That hen said in 207, which kind of clued me into this, which was about the.
Speaker A:The knowing versus not knowing and which is better.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:So this, like, questioning of, you know, being haunted by the what ifs.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And then with that, you also have guilt, like, being literally being haunted by your guilt.
Speaker A:And kind of similarly with guilt, like, what makes a monster almost.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:I connected it to, like, 306, the episode prior to this one, where I think that pertains mostly to Dennis Jenkins and how he, you know, lived his life in service of.
Speaker A:Of Emmett and, like, trying to do good on the.
Speaker A:On the bad things he did, but he still did a very bad thing.
Speaker A:So what makes a monster?
Speaker A:Which kind of like goes back to awful people and like, can people be redeemed or are they.
Speaker A:Are they born awful or do they have awfulness thrust upon them?
Speaker A:All that stuff.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And then a next big theme is opening Pandora's box.
Speaker A:So with that, you have keeping secrets, but then also what happens when those secrets get out and you have to, like, tell everything.
Speaker A:So it's.
Speaker A:This is again, like your past coming back to haunt you.
Speaker A:We also have major themes of closure and grief, obviously, and how to move forward as opposed to that other thing, which I'm not going to mention being.
Speaker A:Say it with me now.
Speaker A:Anyways.
Speaker A:And then again, just continuing, our major season three theme is parent child relationships.
Speaker A:So we see a big emphasis, of course, with Athena and her mom, but we also see a little bit with like, Emmett and his mom and how their relationship must have been and kind of parental figures.
Speaker A:So you get some.
Speaker A:So McCluskey could also kind of be a little bit of a parental figure or like a mentor to Athena because that's who she was training under when she was a rookie.
Speaker A:You also get this blended family with multiple parental figures with like Bobby and Michael for.
Speaker A:For Harry and May because they're all having dinner together at the very beginning of this episode.
Speaker A:So just like continuing that kind of like familial parent child theme.
Speaker A:And I think.
Speaker A:I think that about covers it.
Speaker B:Who's cooking?
Speaker B:Hey, do you guys remember in season eight, episode 11, when Athena was really mad at Bobby for not.
Speaker B:Not telling about how his mom is actually alive?
Speaker A:Yeah, I think this was worse.
Speaker B:I think this was way worse.
Speaker A:I forgot about that part.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:The fact that neither Michael or Bobby knew.
Speaker B:It's crazy.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:So, yeah, I guess.
Speaker A:I guess for our character arcs, which is who's cooking?
Speaker A:And it's pretty much just Athena because this is the Athena show.
Speaker A:This is the.
Speaker A:The Athena episode.
Speaker A:Well, until maybe season 816 would all.
Speaker A:I would also kind of consider being an Athena.
Speaker A:Like one of the Athena episodes.
Speaker A:They're so.
Speaker A:They're so similar.
Speaker A:I hate that for us as the viewer and space is so just like, I'm done.
Speaker B:I hate 8:16.
Speaker B:I'm sorry, I think I hate it.
Speaker A:But it is very Athena centric and it is very.
Speaker A:There are a lot of similarities here.
Speaker C:But.
Speaker A:But let's talk a little bit first about Bobby and Michael, because I think we can talk about them a little bit in tandem where.
Speaker A:Well, I guess.
Speaker A:I guess first we'll focus on Bobby.
Speaker A:So he's.
Speaker A:He's confronting Athena about her investigation, like, taking.
Speaker A:Taking on this case and herself by herself.
Speaker A:Exactly.
Speaker A:And he's.
Speaker A:He's really worried about her, like, which is fair because it's a cold case.
Speaker A:You don't know what's.
Speaker A:What's coming down the pike.
Speaker A:And he.
Speaker A:So this is coming from a very, like, loving and I think, understanding place for Bobby because he even says, like, I know what it's like to lose someone you love.
Speaker A:And which is, I think, a lot for him to admit, too, because of.
Speaker A:Because of his history and everything.
Speaker A:And Athena's just like you.
Speaker A:First of all, Emmett wasn't lost.
Speaker A:He was taken from her.
Speaker A:And Bobby may understand her pain, but she.
Speaker A:But he can't understand her struggle.
Speaker A:And I feel like that's a.
Speaker A:That's a fair distinction.
Speaker A:But he's.
Speaker A:Bobby's still just, like, so worried because there's no backup for her.
Speaker A:It's reckless and dangerous.
Speaker A:Like, there's just.
Speaker A:There's just so many unknowns, things that.
Speaker B:Could go wrong because.
Speaker A:Because she's going after, like, really strongly someone who, like, murdered someone.
Speaker A:So you don't know what's.
Speaker A:What's going.
Speaker A:What she's going to encounter if she finds them, like, how dangerous they would be and all of that stuff.
Speaker A:So Bobby.
Speaker A:Bobby, I think, is very, very rightfully concerned, worried.
Speaker A:And which is kind of an interesting thing when.
Speaker A:When compared to Michael, when they have their little chat out on the deck, because Michael is a little more insistent, like, yeah, you can be mad at her.
Speaker A:You can be mad.
Speaker A:You're totally fine in that.
Speaker A:Which is true.
Speaker A:That is a very valid thing.
Speaker A:And Bobby's like, I don't really feel like I have a leg to stand on because I hid things from her too.
Speaker B:But he didn't.
Speaker A:And Michael says that it's like, well, she knew all of that stuff before you guys walked down the aisle.
Speaker A:So, like, you cleared that up.
Speaker A:And I was also kind of like, that's a little.
Speaker A:That's a little hypocritical coming from Michael because, like, you know, you could say, like, well, Athena knew all of your.
Speaker A:All of the skeletons in your closet before you guys, you know, made it official and legal.
Speaker A:Meanwhile, Michael didn't tell her about him being gay until, like, two years ago.
Speaker A:And so Athena didn't have that, like, knowledge for.
Speaker A:For their relationship.
Speaker A:And maybe he's saying that a little bit out of.
Speaker A:Out of remorse or regret, but I didn't really get that in.
Speaker A:In the delivery so.
Speaker A:So it's interesting, though, because you have both Bobby and Michael, who have kept their own secrets, and they've had their own skeletons in their closets, their own, like, Pandora's box that have.
Speaker A:That has, like, opened up.
Speaker A:And then you have Athena with this giant secret as well.
Speaker A:So, like, in this kind of triangulation of them, like, they all have kept things from one another.
Speaker A:And it's just kind of interesting how each.
Speaker A:Each reacts, right?
Speaker A:Like.
Speaker A:Like, Michael is like, you can be angry.
Speaker A:Like, it's totally valid.
Speaker A:And Bobby is like, I don't feel like I can because I've done the same thing.
Speaker A:It.
Speaker A:It also recontextualizes how she reacted to finding out these things about Bobby and Michael herself, Right?
Speaker A:Because then in the back of her head, she's like, I've got my own secret.
Speaker A:So I don't know if that is a little.
Speaker A:She was probably not even thinking of any of that stuff as well, because it doesn't necessarily, like, affect their relationships as much as, like, Michael's secret.
Speaker A:Did you know, Like, Bobby's.
Speaker A:Bobby's past doesn't really affect their relationship as much as, like, Michael's secret did.
Speaker A:But it's just, like.
Speaker A:It's so interesting that all three of them were.
Speaker A:Were, like, keeping these.
Speaker A:These really big things, like, so close to their chest for so long.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:I like that Bobby and Michael just continue to, like, get closer and support each other.
Speaker B:And I really miss this friendship.
Speaker C:Me too.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:I think that it was equal parts crazy and smart for Bobby to call Athena's mom.
Speaker B:But, like, I think that just goes to show, like, how desperate he was.
Speaker B:There's, like, no other way he was trying to approach getting her to, like, be smart about.
Speaker B:It was working.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I just.
Speaker B:Funniest part of this entire episode, this one, Bea shows up, and she's like, he was.
Speaker C:That I always wanted.
Speaker C:And they're both just like, oh, my God, bro salad.
Speaker A:I know.
Speaker A:And she's like.
Speaker A:And Bea's like, I know what I said.
Speaker A:Like, just so unapologetic about it out of pocket.
Speaker A:That was so.
Speaker C:This is a serious time, a serious moment.
Speaker C:She's just like, yeah, that's the son I always wanted.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Which also, like, kind of makes more sense now why B Was so, like, you know, just, I don't like you right off the get.
Speaker A:For both Michael and Bobby, it's like.
Speaker A:Like, that kind of makes more sense now, too.
Speaker C:At least she gave him a compliment.
Speaker C:She was like, at least he's smart enough to call me to Help you, you know?
Speaker C:You know what I mean?
Speaker A:Like, she gave.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:She gave him back his flowers.
Speaker C:No, but it's.
Speaker C:She's going to be backhanded regardless.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I mean, that's just.
Speaker B:I mean, but who.
Speaker B:She is smart to be like, yes, she can't stand her mother most of the time, but, like, also, her mother was there for her through this, and.
Speaker A:Nobody else would understand.
Speaker A:So what's happening.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And possibly get through to her because, you know, at the end of the day, that's still her mom.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:Yeah, I just.
Speaker B:Just.
Speaker B:I just love their dynamic.
Speaker B:Continue to love it.
Speaker B:And seeing it just, like, grow.
Speaker B:I thought it was very cute.
Speaker B:And I think we're talking about this later how, like, Michael was just, like, getting wasted in the house he built and talking about, like, how he doesn't.
Speaker B:Like, he's been salty about this all season.
Speaker A:He really has.
Speaker B:About how he's, like, kind of on the outside of the family dynamic and how, like, he's a guest in his own home that he built.
Speaker B:Design.
Speaker A:I built this patio.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And don't forget it.
Speaker B:Bobby's like, they're there.
Speaker B:You'll sleep in May's room.
Speaker B:Like, sleep this entire bottle of whiskey that you're drinking right now.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Was the implication.
Speaker B:So I thought that was cute.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:I think Bobby is just.
Speaker B:He's such a good husband.
Speaker B:He's such a good partner, and he really.
Speaker B:You know, I don't think he.
Speaker B:He pushed when he shouldn't have at any point here.
Speaker B:No, I really don't think he did.
Speaker B:I think he could have pushed more, to be honest, but because he knows her, you know, he was trying to.
Speaker B:To do it in a way that she would be receptive to, which is.
Speaker A:Smart because, like, he's also done the thing where he's pushed hard and she pushes back.
Speaker A:So, like, he.
Speaker A:He has kind of, like, learned from that mistake as well.
Speaker A:Like, I think they understand each other a lot better than they did even in season two.
Speaker A:And he just kind of, like, brings up his concerns and lets it just linger in the air and.
Speaker A:Because he knows she's gonna do whatever she wants anyways, but at least he feels better voicing his concerns in that way.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So he's like, I did what I can do.
Speaker A:I have let you know how I feel about it, but I'm still willing to support you on it and, like, understand where you're coming from.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Which I think is also an important thing.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I think it was very much a Like, I just want you to let people be here for you and not try and do this and handle this all on your own because you've already been doing that for 30 years.
Speaker B:Oof.
Speaker A:I just thought of another parallel, actually, which is kind of interesting.
Speaker A:About how when.
Speaker A:When Bea is talking to Athena about, like, I kept.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:I did what you asked.
Speaker A:I didn't talk about Emmett or bring him up or anything for 30 years, just like you asked.
Speaker A:That's kind of giving the Buckley parents telling Maddie not to talk about Daniel, but, like, opposite.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:So instead of.
Speaker A:Instead of the parents telling the kid, like, keep this a secret, it was.
Speaker A:It was flipped in that way too.
Speaker A:So that's kind of interesting.
Speaker B:Should we talk about Athena?
Speaker A:I think we have to.
Speaker A:Oh, my God.
Speaker B:And the crowd cried.
Speaker A:Again.
Speaker A:Have we stopped crying?
Speaker B:Agliest?
Speaker B:I was like, I have not taken my antidepressants today.
Speaker B:I'm gonna do that right now.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's probably a good.
Speaker B:That's just so depressing, bro.
Speaker B:I don't wanna.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:It's such a good episode.
Speaker A:I think it's one of the.
Speaker A:I think it's kind of almost a perfect episode.
Speaker A:Like, not necessarily like a quintessential 911 episode, but just like the story.
Speaker A:It's just so good.
Speaker B:Yeah, but it's like the hope at the end is not there anymore.
Speaker B:So that's why it's like.
Speaker A:No, that's.
Speaker A:That has been changed irrevocably.
Speaker B:Anyway, so as I mentioned earlier.
Speaker B:Surprise.
Speaker B:Dead fiance.
Speaker B:They just really.
Speaker B:This family just likes to have surprise.
Speaker B:Like the entire 118 is like, surprise, surprise.
Speaker B:My mom is actually not dead.
Speaker B:Surprise.
Speaker B:I have a dead fiance.
Speaker A:Surprise.
Speaker B:You have a dead brother.
Speaker A:Brother.
Speaker B:You were a donor baby.
Speaker B:Surprise.
Speaker B:I have a wife.
Speaker B:What's chimney and hens?
Speaker C:Surprise.
Speaker C:I have survivor's guilt.
Speaker A:That's not a surprise.
Speaker C:Well, the original survivor's guilt, because I adopted huge surprises.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker C:What was hens.
Speaker B:Honestly, her cheating is the most surprising thing about her entire arc.
Speaker B:Surprise.
Speaker B:The moon made me do it.
Speaker A:Then what is chimneys?
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:Just surprise.
Speaker B:I keep surviving.
Speaker A:That is a surprise.
Speaker B:I'm still here anyway.
Speaker A:I live it.
Speaker B:I'm always interested.
Speaker C:Oh, surprise.
Speaker C:He's got a wife.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker B:Surprise.
Speaker B:He has a wife he's still married to.
Speaker B:One of the first things that we see him say on screen to Buck is I'm always God.
Speaker B:His mom isn't in the picture, which makes it sound like, at the very least, that they're divorced dead.
Speaker B:But it makes it sound like she's dead.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Foreshadowing shadowing.
Speaker B:Anyway, I always am interested, like, when I am watching stuff like this.
Speaker B:Like, how early they decided this kind of stuff was incorporated as part of the character, or they just decided it while they were writing the episode.
Speaker B:So, like, was the surprise dead fiance a surprise to everyone?
Speaker A:It was to Angela Bassett.
Speaker A:And I didn't pull the quote, but in one of.
Speaker A:In one of the articles I think she spoke about.
Speaker A:Hold on, I'm finding it.
Speaker A:This is.
Speaker A:This is a quote from the TV Line article.
Speaker A:They.
Speaker A:The interviewer asked, did you ever think that Athena was harboring this much pain?
Speaker A:And Angela said, not at all.
Speaker A:I was very surprised to see that.
Speaker A:I thought they'd thrown everything they could at me in the love department.
Speaker A:But no, there's more.
Speaker A:And knowing our writers, there's still more.
Speaker A:I was like, why did you have to add that part?
Speaker A:Why did you have to say that last part?
Speaker A:She's not wrong.
Speaker A:So I, like, Angela wasn't super privy to it until they got this episode, which, again, was even earlier in season three than we assumed.
Speaker A:But it's still, like, I don't know when they decided to do that.
Speaker C:Probably over the summer.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:But it just, like, it fits in so seamlessly with, like, the rest of the lore that they've already established.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Or the history that they've established with Athena, too, you know?
Speaker B:So, yeah, she's just having a nice dinner with her family, and then her boss shows up.
Speaker A:And drops a bomb.
Speaker B:Accidentally spills some tea, and it's awkward.
Speaker A:Oof.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:It kind of makes you wonder, like, if Elaine didn't make the house call or they didn't have everybody over at that point.
Speaker A:Would Athena have even brought this up to anyone in the first place?
Speaker A:I feel like she would have kind of, like, investigated in secret.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And then it would have kind of, like, blown up in her face.
Speaker B:It would have been, like, in 16, where she was.
Speaker B:She didn't tell anyone what she was doing.
Speaker B:And then people found that out.
Speaker A:Ooh.
Speaker B:That's probably what would have happened.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I hate history repeating itself.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So anyway, then we.
Speaker B:We immediately, like, get this flashback to her at law school, which is so cool.
Speaker B:I love these flashbacks because it's like, you can really see the spirit of Athena, but you can really see it's just such a, like, much more unburdened version of her.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Because it's like a.
Speaker B:She hasn't experienced this loss that we now know that she has, but, like, hasn't been through all the Other that she's been through.
Speaker B:So she would have been like, what.
Speaker A:Like, 24, very early 20s.
Speaker B:She.
Speaker B:She was in law school.
Speaker B:So she.
Speaker A:It wasn't pre law.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:So she would have been, oh, like.
Speaker A:At least 22, 23.
Speaker B:I want to say 23, 24, because law school's two years.
Speaker C:Depends on how long you want it.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah, but, like, she's, like, thriving.
Speaker C:She's got friends, she's having.
Speaker B:Oh, it's through your son.
Speaker C:And then you just, like.
Speaker C:Because of these flashbacks, you just see how she hardens.
Speaker B:She would have been before because it's there.
Speaker A:It was like.
Speaker B:It was like.
Speaker B:It was like looking at careers like they were all messed up.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Kind of how I was looking at it, but yeah.
Speaker B:So she got lured into this job because of Emmett being like, it's related to law, but, like, we get there first.
Speaker B:So it's like.
Speaker B:It is kind of like explaining how adjacent, like, cops are to lawyers, but they're first responders.
Speaker B:So it's like, kind of the whole message of first responders.
Speaker B:They respond first.
Speaker B:They're the first people who can help in a situation.
Speaker B:And like, the.
Speaker B:I guess the idea of cops, not the actuality, is that they should be there to help prevent things from happening so that, like, it doesn't end up in a courtroom.
Speaker B:So I think that really appealed to her also.
Speaker B:This guy was really pretty, so that.
Speaker A:Definitely appealed to her too.
Speaker A:That helped just a little bit, but.
Speaker B:Did help a little.
Speaker A:But you.
Speaker A:You do see how, like, she's going to law school, so she already has, like, her.
Speaker A:Her, like, sense of justice is.
Speaker A:Is such like, a core pillar of.
Speaker A:Of her character in general that.
Speaker A:That it was developed even long before then.
Speaker A:And I think.
Speaker A:I think it was developed with all the stuff with, like, Tanya Kingston and all that.
Speaker A:So, like, she was very young.
Speaker A:I think she was, like, under 10 years old or something at that point when that all happened.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:So her, like, her sense of morality, right and wrong, search for justice is already so ingrained.
Speaker A:And so I think that's what, like, made it, like, an easy transition for her to go for, like, from law to policing.
Speaker A:Yeah, there's a lot.
Speaker A:There's so much overlap there that it makes sense for her, too.
Speaker B:Yeah, so we see her very, like, quickly.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:I don't know the timeline, but it seems quick that she, like, changes gears.
Speaker B:And you see her, like, at dinner with Emmett, like, talking about how she would be, like, in a minority.
Speaker B:Minority of women on the force, and she makes it sound like, why didn't you tell me this?
Speaker B:And the words are saying, like, I don't think that's great, but I think she just took it as a challenge.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:It was like she wouldn't.
Speaker B:Who she is as a person.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:She was gonna be, like, outnumbered like, nine to one in terms of, like, men to women on the force.
Speaker B:She just went, bet.
Speaker A:Yeah, right?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Like, okay.
Speaker B:And her.
Speaker B:Her partner, who she trains under on the first day is like, I'm tired of training you people.
Speaker B:And I was like, bro, you're saying that to a black woman.
Speaker B:There's so many bad ways this could be taken.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker B:But he was like, yeah, you guys just end up, like, falling in love and having babies and leaving.
Speaker B:Which I'm like, obviously she had two and had no trouble, like, continuing to do her job.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker A:So it's interesting because McCluskey is already, like, kind of jaded.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It seems like, in terms of, like, if we're comparing for begin.
Speaker A:Stuff like McCluskey to Gerard sort of stuff, like, it's.
Speaker A:It's day and night.
Speaker A:Because it seems like McCluskey, once Athena kind of like, proves how serious she is about it, that he's like, okay, like, yeah, he's impressed.
Speaker A:Like, like, she has the potential to be a really good cop.
Speaker A:But he was just like, I.
Speaker A:He was reticent to like, or so much in.
Speaker A:Into training her if she was just gonna like, what.
Speaker B:It's giving parallels to 8:12.
Speaker A:Yeah, no, it absolutely is.
Speaker B:And it's like with Eddie and the El Paso captain.
Speaker A:Oh, I'm sorry.
Speaker A:I was thinking 807 for a second.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker A:Oh, my gosh.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:Pouring resources into someone to train them only for them to.
Speaker B:To follow the person that they love somewhere else.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:That is super interesting as well.
Speaker A:And, oh, I was just thinking, like, to.
Speaker A:To 807, like, seeing.
Speaker A:Seeing Athena, like, in a training kind of role for a rookie and how, like, that switch and how she, like, kind of learned, like, so much of Athena's.
Speaker A:I think procedure has been informed by McCluskey, you know, because he also didn't believe in being confined to sectors.
Speaker A:And it's like, well, she's a field sergeant.
Speaker A:She goes wherever she wants to.
Speaker A:Stuff about, like, calling, you know, Central that they're out of the car on investigation when they weren't.
Speaker A:It's like, oh, already, like, learning how to take advantage of some of the loopholes.
Speaker A:Like, what Centrals won't know won't hurt them.
Speaker A:And I think that.
Speaker A:I think that really did inform a lot of.
Speaker A:Of how she does that.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:How she approaches on the field.
Speaker A:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker C:But I was taking all those liberties.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:But yeah, sorry.
Speaker A:Going.
Speaker A:Going back to how, like, McCluskey was kind of like, he.
Speaker A:He just, like, didn't want it to be a wasted time and effort as opposed to, like, Gerard, who was actively racist, homophobic, and sexist and all the ists and icks and stuff.
Speaker A:So, like, just like, the difference there is interesting too.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker B:You get to see.
Speaker B:You get to see Athena being Athena.
Speaker B:So she is hyper competent, very dedicated to what she does, and just like, amazing at everything.
Speaker B:So you just get this montage of like, young Athena being, like, brand new at this job and already, like, kicking ass, taking cool.
Speaker B:Taking names and.
Speaker A:And also kind of like in the flashbacks, you see how she balances both her professional career and her personal life with Emmett as well.
Speaker A:And you see how, you know, it.
Speaker A:It kind of appears like.
Speaker A:Like she could have it all, you know, a fulfilling career, a fulfilling relationship.
Speaker A:Gets along with his mom great.
Speaker A:Her mom loves.
Speaker B:Happy with it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Like, what could possibly go wrong?
Speaker A:Like, it really.
Speaker A:It really looked like everything was coming up like roses for Athena, and that can only last so long.
Speaker C:But.
Speaker A:But it really.
Speaker A:It really shows, like.
Speaker A:Yeah, just like the balance there was.
Speaker B:Was.
Speaker A:Seemed.
Speaker A:Seemed pretty perfect.
Speaker A:I know it was like, kind of Montagy, and we only get, like, little flashes here and there.
Speaker A:But it seemed to be like it's.
Speaker B:Her remembering it too.
Speaker B:Like, memory is always gonna be.
Speaker B:Especially once someone dies who you were fond of, a lot of your memories are going to be more positive.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Remembering the good stuff.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:But we.
Speaker A:We do get a pretty, like, picture perfect image of.
Speaker A:Of Emmett, which also, like, is fair.
Speaker A:He's very pretty.
Speaker A:He is like, no, like, no wonder she was, you know, kind of drawn over to that.
Speaker A:It makes sense.
Speaker A:He.
Speaker A:He has, like.
Speaker A:He had, like, a lot of charm about him.
Speaker B:And it's just the personality, I think, is very similar to Bobby.
Speaker A:Yeah, I kind of think so too.
Speaker C:I thought so too.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:When she's at.
Speaker B:When she's at Jenkins Place and she's talking about how to her it means nothing.
Speaker B:What he's done with his life means nothing.
Speaker B:But she's basically like.
Speaker B:But Emmett would be so impressed.
Speaker B:Like, he really would, because he was always.
Speaker A:He.
Speaker B:He was always a good man.
Speaker B:Like, he didn't have to make himself one.
Speaker B:And he.
Speaker B:He believed in second chances.
Speaker A:And that just sounds like Bobby.
Speaker B:It just sounds like Bobby.
Speaker B:And it was just Make.
Speaker B:I was already crying.
Speaker C:It's really upsetting then.
Speaker B:It is upsetting, but it's.
Speaker B:That's the kind of person she's drawn to because that's, you know, that's part of her, but it's also.
Speaker B:How do I word this?
Speaker A:Like, the goodness in others.
Speaker A:That's not what you want to say.
Speaker B:It's so like, yes, we know Athena's a good person, but I think there's a difference between being like, a good person and being someone who believes in people.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Because I think I'm a good person, but I don't generally believe in people, but my partner does.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:And I love that.
Speaker B:I love that he is always trying to help people and looking for the good in people.
Speaker B:Like, I love that it's not me.
Speaker B:It couldn't be me, but I love that in him.
Speaker B:So I think that's kind of what I'm trying to say, like, about her, where it's like, she really admires that quality, but she doesn't possess it herself.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Like, she.
Speaker A:She values it.
Speaker A:And I think one of the reasons why she values Emmett's or Bobby's belief in people is because she.
Speaker A:Especially with her.
Speaker A:Her job history, has seen kind of like the worst in people.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So I think.
Speaker A:I think that's probably one of the reasons why she's.
Speaker A:Why she so often seeks people out who.
Speaker A:Who possess that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Because it kind of like, almost buoys her a little bit more.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And ends up being like.
Speaker A:Yeah, the balance, the yin to that yang.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:I'll just.
Speaker B:So straightforward.
Speaker C:This is the part of the.
Speaker C:I think this was the part of the episode that made me think about 8, 16 a lot.
Speaker C:Because I was thinking about how, like, in Athena begins.
Speaker C:Like, she was able to get closure.
Speaker C:She was able to do something to get closure for Emmett and for herself, you know, for herself.
Speaker C:You know, there was someone.
Speaker C:There's like.
Speaker C:There's.
Speaker C:There's a physical manifestation.
Speaker C:I don't know if you guys.
Speaker C:I get.
Speaker C:Are going where I'm going with this, but, like, there's.
Speaker C:There's someone.
Speaker C:There's someone to bring justice.
Speaker C:Yeah, you bring.
Speaker C:You know, as opposed to, like, what killed Bobby was a virus.
Speaker C:It's not like she could do anything about it.
Speaker C:It's not like.
Speaker C:I mean, Moira's in custody or something.
Speaker C:Who the fuck knows?
Speaker A:So, like, it's like intangible.
Speaker C:So it feels like she couldn't really.
Speaker C:Like, she did throw herself into, like, work and tried to solve that case of the empty casket.
Speaker C:The baby and all of that, but, like, it.
Speaker C:Just.
Speaker C:Because of how that ended, it just feels like she can't, like, avenge him.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:That's.
Speaker A:That's exactly it.
Speaker A:Because there's nothing.
Speaker A:And that almost.
Speaker A:That almost makes it worse, right?
Speaker A:Because there's nothing that she can even do that's within her power, like.
Speaker A:Like it was totally within her power to take on this cold case and finally find Emmett's killer and bring them to justice and, like, finally get the answers that she so desperately needed for 30 years.
Speaker A:But with the.
Speaker A:With everything with Bobby and the virus, there are no answers.
Speaker A:There's no justice to be made, except for the fact that it's just unfair.
Speaker C:And, like, she does say to Bobby, to the Ghost Bobby, Ghost Bobby, Force Ghost Bobby.
Speaker C:She does say to him that the reason why she was, like, doing that, like, trying to solve that case was because he would have wanted to find a way to help.
Speaker C:Like, it was her way of honoring him.
Speaker C:But at the same time, like, it's like she couldn't.
Speaker C:She couldn't solve it.
Speaker C:So, yeah, like, it's definitely, like, she couldn't avenge him.
Speaker C:She couldn't.
Speaker C:You know, the only way she was able to honor him was to send them off to Minnesota.
Speaker C:Bury him in Minnesota.
Speaker C:I hate it here.
Speaker A:I know.
Speaker A:How many times are we gonna say I hate it here in this episode?
Speaker A:Start your counter now.
Speaker A:We've already reached, like, 5.
Speaker C:5.
Speaker A:But in terms of this idea of.
Speaker A:Of, like, honoring.
Speaker A:Honoring a memory, I think is also, like, a really important through thread from Athena begins and the end of season eight as well.
Speaker A:Even.
Speaker A:Even in 802, when we see the funeral of Emmett and Athena gives that eulogy of, you know, like, she will always honor Emmett's memory, and she will, you know, try to.
Speaker A:Try to put that forth.
Speaker A:I think.
Speaker A:I think Jenkins says something actually kind of similar when she confronts him.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:But this idea of honoring someone or honoring their.
Speaker A:Their memory by living life in service, so.
Speaker A:So Dennis Jenkins also really understands that as well.
Speaker A:And he tried.
Speaker A:He said that he tried to live his life.
Speaker A:Tried to live a life of.
Speaker A:And in service and to honor someone who was, like, so dedicated to making the world a better place.
Speaker A:So I think we've seen Athena do that on behalf of Emmett as well.
Speaker A:We've seen Jenkins try to do that on behalf of Emmett and I.
Speaker A:And we also see, like, Athena doing that again on behalf of Bobby.
Speaker A:So it is just, like, very similar, like, honoring someone from, by the way, that they, like, cared about their world and their community.
Speaker A:And stuff like that as well.
Speaker B:I mean, we do see her.
Speaker B:We do see her, I guess, honoring Bobby at the end of season eight and 18 by, you know, making amends, the chimney, encouraging him to step up and be more confident and take, you know, ownership for how.
Speaker B:How good he is, how good of a leader he is.
Speaker B:And then we see her, you know, embracing the family and embracing kind of the spot where Bobby used to be.
Speaker B:So I think that is going to be how she honors Bobby.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Moving forward.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And it is also kind of interesting and a little different because, you know, Athena was able to honor Emmett in kind of a different way because they were.
Speaker A:They're both cops, so she is very much like continuing his work.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Because they're in the same, like, field.
Speaker A:Field of work.
Speaker A:But it.
Speaker A:It becomes a little bit different when it's Athena and Bobby because even though they're both first responders, like, Athena can't go out and do the firefighting on Bobby's behalf sort of thing.
Speaker A:So she has to kind of figure out a way that she can honor in a different way than how she did for Emmett because she was doing that for 30 years, but, like, she can't really do the same.
Speaker A:That same thing.
Speaker A:Does that make sense?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:So she's like, honoring Emma in.
Speaker C:In the profession, in the career.
Speaker C:Meanwhile, with Bobby, she's honoring the family.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Personal.
Speaker C:I would say personal level of honoring him.
Speaker A:I think that's kind of beautiful too.
Speaker A:So then she's like, all aspects of her life is like in.
Speaker A:I mean, it's for her, but it's also like honoring some of the people that she loved the most.
Speaker A:And it's.
Speaker A:And it's honoring, you know, the side of her that, like, looks for right and wrong and justice, but also the side that like, is.
Speaker A:Is so like, nurturing and loving, family oriented and.
Speaker A:And is, I think, really indicative of the.
Speaker A:The men that the.
Speaker A:That these two people were.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:It's just really sad that, like, that's what she.
Speaker B:Like that's what her life is.
Speaker B:That's just honoring.
Speaker B:Living her life to honor people she loves who are no longer there anymore.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Which is like, that's a.
Speaker A:That's a high bar to set for.
Speaker A:For yourself.
Speaker A:But it's also like, what, like 2.
Speaker A:2.
Speaker A:Two Ways to Think about that.
Speaker A:That like, like, that's.
Speaker A:That's a lot to set yourself up for.
Speaker A:One, especially because these two people were so good.
Speaker A:But it's also like, kind of what better use of your life than to, like, try to emulate that goodness.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And I feel like that's kind of a worthy purpose goal in that way.
Speaker A:Not to get too like.
Speaker B:I'm not saying it's not.
Speaker B:I'm just saying it's sad.
Speaker A:Oh, I know.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah, Yeah.
Speaker A:I knew you weren't saying it wasn't, but it is.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:There's always going to be some like, sadness tinged in there because it's.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Anyway, before I start crying, I guess I really enjoy seeing Athena and Maddie stuff.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So I thought that that was cool to tie in there and bring part of like.
Speaker B:Well, I guess more of the extended 118 family.
Speaker B:She's not part of 118.
Speaker B:And seeing them have.
Speaker B:Having to dig through, like, as someone who grew up in the 90s, someone who was born a year before Athena's flashback starts, I enjoyed like, seeing like, not just all of the nostalgic stuff and like the flashbacks, but seeing like, having to like, oh, what do you do when you have to like, work on a cold case from the 90s?
Speaker B:Oh, a giant paper trail.
Speaker B:Because it's not digitized.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker A:There's all those boxes.
Speaker A:I love how they were like, Maddie was like, how do you want to do this?
Speaker A:And Athena was just like, start at one end, I'll start at the other.
Speaker A:We'll meet in the middle.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:There really is no other way.
Speaker A:That is the only way that you're.
Speaker A:That you're gonna do it.
Speaker A:And I.
Speaker A:I did love that it was such a, like, very like, prominently physical way of.
Speaker A:With all of these boxes and files.
Speaker A:It was literally like opening Pandora's boxes.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:You're like, uncovering all this stuff, looking for, you know, the.
Speaker A:The smoking gun, as it were, of like a thing connected to a thing connected to a thing.
Speaker A:Which we kind of saw Athena do on her investigation.
Speaker A:Like, like such a good leg.
Speaker A:I know, I know.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And so, so I loved the.
Speaker A:The connection to like that Pandora's box imagery.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Because when.
Speaker A:When she was at lunch with Hen, when they were talking, Athena told Hen that like, I took all of my grief and pain and locked it in a box.
Speaker A:And that's the only way she knew how to move forward.
Speaker A:So here you have her really like, opening these things up, like opening herself up as well and like, really uncovering these like, 30 year old, like, feelings and emotions and memories.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Woof.
Speaker C:There's two things I wanted to say, so I.
Speaker C:No, so I was just gonna comment on like, bringing in Maddie.
Speaker C:I.
Speaker C:I do enjoy seeing them work together, solving cases Together.
Speaker C:And it kind of.
Speaker C:And I feel like it's not really like a.
Speaker C:It's definitely.
Speaker C:It's not like a full circle moment or like a parallel.
Speaker C:But I think I.
Speaker C:I love that, you know, Athena was the one that she had.
Speaker C:That Maddie had her right along with.
Speaker C:Maddie was able to learn from Athena.
Speaker C:And then here, you know, it's kind of like, not really like a repay the favor, but like, she's.
Speaker C:She has Maddie helping her solve, you know, a very meaningful case that's important to her.
Speaker C:So that's what I kind of like that kind of.
Speaker C:But not really full circle, full circle adjacent kind of moment.
Speaker C:And then the other thing that I kind of wanted to talk about, like, I talked about this in the live stream yesterday, but we were just.
Speaker C:I think we just talked.
Speaker C:We kind of like referenced the.
Speaker C:That whole thing, like, early on in the episode where she is talking to head and she's basically saying, like, she threw herself into work.
Speaker C:And like.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's.
Speaker C:It's just like, I.
Speaker C:I wish a lot of people.
Speaker C:I wish the.
Speaker C:I wish a lot of people had prepared themselves for 816 by watching Athena begins.
Speaker C:Because there.
Speaker C:There were people who were upset that she didn't like that she threw herself into work.
Speaker C:And they're like, why are these writers writing her, doing that?
Speaker C:And meanwhile, I'm over here, like, this is so in character.
Speaker A:Like, have you met Athena?
Speaker C:She literally says, like, I threw myself back into work, so she was going to do that.
Speaker C:Yeah, that's in character.
Speaker A:That's the only way she knew how to move forward from such a big, devastating loss.
Speaker A:Exactly.
Speaker A:So of course it was gonna, like, it was gonna happen again.
Speaker A:That's the only way that she knew how to.
Speaker A:How to do it.
Speaker A:Because she compartmentalizes stuff like that.
Speaker A:She's like, let me focus on something that was.
Speaker A:That is within my power to do so.
Speaker A:I don't spiral over everything that was out of my power.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Like, feeling powerless.
Speaker A:Like.
Speaker A:Like, it is also.
Speaker A:It is kind of a way for her to.
Speaker A:To empower herself and feel productive.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's totally in character.
Speaker A:Like, we've literally seen this before.
Speaker A:Like, like, of course.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:It.
Speaker A:It just.
Speaker A:It makes sense for her.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And it also made sense with 8 16, like how it was tied to Bobby.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Because it had.
Speaker A:It had to be something that was.
Speaker A:That had like a connective tissue.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:I say that all the time.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:No, it's jers of the character when you break out the textures of it, which, like, I actually really Love that phrase.
Speaker A:Like, like unironically.
Speaker A:I love that, you know, the textures of the characters and the.
Speaker A:What else do we.
Speaker A:What haven't we.
Speaker A:What haven't we mentioned yet?
Speaker C:This was the season eight retrospective.
Speaker A:I know.
Speaker C:Really, like, so, you know, Athena sits everyone down.
Speaker C:Harry may be Michael, Bobby, and like she's showing them the pictures.
Speaker C:Like, this is how she.
Speaker C:She's starting to reveal like the secret to the entire family.
Speaker C:And I just found that like, interesting because it's the youngest one, it's Harry, who's like, oh, wow, I could have had a completely different dad.
Speaker C:And then she's like, no, you would have been a completely different person.
Speaker C:And I like, I just feel like that scene, like it's.
Speaker C:It's very important because like, enforces that to me and reinforces that like this family still matters to her.
Speaker C:Like, she's not like stuck on this.
Speaker C:Like, yes, she's.
Speaker C:She wants to find that.
Speaker C:That closure for her, for Emmett, but like, this family is still important to her because it almost felt like, especially for like, I don't really know how, how old Harry is, but like he's.
Speaker C:But I feel like the inference here, it could be like, oh, this your past love is more important than the family you have now.
Speaker C:But no.
Speaker C:So I'm glad like they included that scene.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I think that was.
Speaker A:That really was meant to be like a.
Speaker A:Like as much as Athena kind of like opening that Pandora box of.
Speaker A:Of a very personal thing for her, it was also her opening up to.
Speaker A:To.
Speaker A:To let everyone else in, which I think is just like very hard for her in general because she has to compartmentalize so much.
Speaker A:And she, she, you know, she keeps things separate and, and like neat and orderly boxes.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So for.
Speaker A:For this to be an inclusion of everybody and bringing them in to like this.
Speaker A:This part of herself and to have it also be everyone included because they are a blended family.
Speaker A:So it's.
Speaker A:It's this inclusion of everyone to.
Speaker A:To this like more like non traditional aspect of.
Speaker A:Of their lives.
Speaker A:Like some.
Speaker A:Something about how.
Speaker A:How it blends like Athena's past and present all together in.
Speaker A:In a way that creates like a new thing that is like built off of everything else.
Speaker A:You know, like, that can be kind of like stronger or better because of everybody knowing.
Speaker C:Mm.
Speaker A:And then you have more of that, like that tension of knowing and not knowing and secret keeping and stuff and stuff like that.
Speaker A:Because even.
Speaker A:Even at the kind of the end where Athena is talking to Jenkins, like, as.
Speaker A:As they're having that confrontation and Jenkins says to Athena, like, you've.
Speaker A:You've carried my burden for 30 years.
Speaker A:Because Athena has had to live with.
Speaker A:Live with the.
Speaker A:Her own guilt of like, not knowing and blaming herself, which she talks to her mother about.
Speaker A:But like, Jen Jenkins has had to live 30 years with the guilt of knowing that he did all of that and like nobody else knowing.
Speaker A:So it's.
Speaker A:It's just like letting everything come into the light, I think.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And that's kind of like the only way that you can really move forward and find that closure is.
Speaker A:Is.
Speaker A:I think there was a line there where Athena says, like, you know, this Emmett dying was like a wrecking ball.
Speaker A:In all of their lives, they managed to put the pieces back together, but there will always be cracks.
Speaker A:And I feel like that is so applicable to the now as well.
Speaker A:It's like, yeah, because we, like with the end of season eight, we were talking so much about, like, how they can move forward, how they can like, grieve together because everybody is like, in.
Speaker A:In the knowing and together.
Speaker A:But it will never be the same as it was.
Speaker A:There will always be cracks, but you can only do so much in finding closure.
Speaker A:Here's how we can move on that.
Speaker A:That kind of stuff.
Speaker A:Before we get to scene dissection notifying Emmett's mom.
Speaker A:Just very briefly at the very end, where it was like the.
Speaker A:Both the past and the present kind of flashing back and forth together, which I thought was very beautifully done.
Speaker A:And I love kind of the reverse mirrors that we have here, where in the past it's Athena coming to tell Emmett's mom, whose name I do not know.
Speaker A:Not sure we.
Speaker A:We get.
Speaker A:But is it Tina?
Speaker A:Oh, maybe.
Speaker C:I think it's Tina.
Speaker A:Okay, thank you.
Speaker A:Aw, it's a good name.
Speaker A:So in the past you have Athena coming to, you know, inform next of kin, which was Emmett's mom, Tina.
Speaker A:And how.
Speaker A:How Emmett's mom, like, received the news and just kind of like collapsed on Athena in.
Speaker A:In this grief.
Speaker A:And then flip it to compare with the.
Speaker A:The present where Athena is again coming to Tina, Emmett's mom, but with a completely different, like, announcement where, like, it's.
Speaker A:It's meant for closure and for them to find peace.
Speaker A:But it's so interesting though, because Emmett's mom does not break down like she did 30 years ago.
Speaker A:She.
Speaker A:Gosh, I get.
Speaker A:I get like, goosebumps.
Speaker A:This is.
Speaker A:This is the part of the episode where I like, start crying every time.
Speaker A:So apologies, but.
Speaker A:But his mom doesn't break down like she.
Speaker A:Like she did.
Speaker A:She says tells Athena, like, oh, baby.
Speaker A:Like, like, oh, this is like Athena has been carrying that burden for so long, and it's almost like Tina herself is like, had that closure.
Speaker A:Like, she's made peace with it and.
Speaker A:But she recognizes how Athena had not and been carrying that for so long and, like, embraced and comforting Athena.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:As opposed to the other way.
Speaker A:Like that.
Speaker A:That's just such a beautiful.
Speaker A:Oh, my God.
Speaker A:I know.
Speaker A:Like, I started talking about it, I got goosebumps.
Speaker A:Like, that is so beautiful and so well done and, like, just absolutely incredible.
Speaker A:And then, you know, right after that, you also have Athena after she's done, like, one of the most difficult things she could ever do by telling Tina.
Speaker A:And then she goes and she like, like collapses under Greek under her grief.
Speaker A:But her relief into Bobby who fully supports her, just like, literally, physically and emotionally supporting her.
Speaker C:I feel just like, really emotional.
Speaker C:I know.
Speaker A:I don't know how I didn't burst into tears just now, but so I.
Speaker A:I think that.
Speaker A:Yeah, okay, now.
Speaker A:Now I'm doing it.
Speaker A:I think that's just like the best.
Speaker A:The, like, so poignant, so beautiful.
Speaker A:And we can talk about something else now.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:Our track record for crying in the Buddies, the Zoom podcast.
Speaker B:I feel like I'm pulling a Rachel.
Speaker B:Sorry, that's why I didn't read the lyrics.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:Because the song is playing the whole time.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Okay, so scene dissection.
Speaker B:Hey.
Speaker A:Where'S the fire?
Speaker B:So Athena is in her place after Emmett's death, and she's watching the news and watching a traffic stop going wrong.
Speaker B:She's watching some police brutality on the news, and her mom walks in and is talking about how she's gonna have movers come and give them a quote.
Speaker B:And I was like, oh, my God, what's happening?
Speaker B:And Athena tells her, and she's like, I'm so glad you're not going to be out there anymore.
Speaker B:And she's like.
Speaker A:Like it was completely assumed that, like, oh, well, your.
Speaker A:Your fiance is dead.
Speaker A:I guess you have to come back to Florida for us.
Speaker A:With us.
Speaker A:Like, since when?
Speaker B:Yeah, so she says.
Speaker B:Beatrice says, I'm glad you're coming home.
Speaker B:I'd hate to have you out there.
Speaker B:And Athena says, I'm not.
Speaker B:I'm not going with you.
Speaker B:I'm staying here.
Speaker B:I'm going back to the job.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And Beatrice is like, what are you talking about?
Speaker B:Nathan says, I joined the force for a reason.
Speaker B:And her mother.
Speaker B:God, when I catch you.
Speaker B:Beatrice says, you joined the force for a man who's dead.
Speaker A:Like, we already know She's a little bit caustic anyways, but like that, that was.
Speaker B:That's not why she joined.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker A:Which, which really indicates.
Speaker A:I mentioned this a little bit earlier, but it really indicates like, how much B does not see Athena.
Speaker A:And like, like she just doesn't understand.
Speaker A:I think Athena's sense of morality, sense of justice.
Speaker A:Justice.
Speaker A:And I think, I think it was like more acceptable when Athena wanted to be a lawyer because like, that's a great job.
Speaker A:Like, oh my gosh, you're gonna be a lawyer.
Speaker A:That's fant.
Speaker A:That's what every parent wants.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:A doctor or a lawyer.
Speaker A:But doesn't.
Speaker A:Didn't understand why Athena was drawn to that kind of career in the first place.
Speaker A:Just kind of like, oh great, she's gonna be a lawyer.
Speaker A:Awesome.
Speaker A:But never really like, understood.
Speaker B:And Athena says that because her mom's like, he joined for a man who's dead.
Speaker B:Don't follow him into the grave.
Speaker B:And Athena's just like so despondent.
Speaker B:She's like, you have.
Speaker B:You really have no idea who I am, do you?
Speaker B:Because it's like at that point, if your parent doesn't understand you, you're a full grown ass adult.
Speaker B:Like, what are you gonna do?
Speaker A:What can they do?
Speaker B:Like, exactly.
Speaker B:They could.
Speaker A:She also couldn't force her to.
Speaker A:To move back to Florida with.
Speaker A:With her parents.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker B:But she says you're my daughter, as if that's her whole identity.
Speaker B:Her mother is just one of those moms that had in the.
Speaker B:The Diaz things have this too.
Speaker A:We've talked about that as well.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:It's one of those parents who had this perfect vision for what their kids life is going to be like.
Speaker B:And when it's not that they're a constant disappointment, constant judgment.
Speaker B:And it's like, well, you're not the daughter or the son that I knew.
Speaker B:The not who I raised you to be.
Speaker A:It's like, like, well, you never knew them in the first place.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:You're my daughter and you are not staying here to be a part of that.
Speaker B:And Athena says, that is why I need to stay here so there can be more officers like me and less like them.
Speaker B:And her mom's like, what difference does that make?
Speaker C:It's also like misplaced.
Speaker C:It's like shielded by like this faux like, protectiveness.
Speaker C:Because like, yes, you know, like, she's.
Speaker C:She doesn't.
Speaker C:She's saying that she doesn't want anything to happen to her daughter, but at the same time, it's like you don't understand, like, the whole reason why she wants to stay and, and it's just like tone deaf of her.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:It's also just like if you wanted to fight about how dangerous the job is, that's one thing.
Speaker B:It's still going to be a fight because you still understand her.
Speaker B:But it's like you're like assuming that just because the person she was engaged to died, that she's going to move back home to Florida.
Speaker B:Like, she was only there to meet a man.
Speaker B:Now that he's dead, she's coming back to Florida.
Speaker C:She could also be a cop in Florida.
Speaker A:Yeah, she could have.
Speaker A:So I think, I think B just basically thought like Athena was going to school in law school to get an Mrs.
Speaker A:Degree.
Speaker B:You know, I was thinking that.
Speaker B:That's what I was thinking and it's so interesting.
Speaker A:An Mrs.
Speaker A:Degree is like this idea of.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:To become a wife.
Speaker A:So like, like a missus, like you go to college to, to meet.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:To meet a successful man.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker A:And then you get married and then you don' to be in the working force or anything like that.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's.
Speaker A:It's this idea of, of women going to school not for like education.
Speaker A:For education, career of, of their own, but to basically meet a man who will provide for.
Speaker A:Who will provide.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:So see, I never thought of it that way.
Speaker C:I think, I don't know, it's kind.
Speaker A:Of like an outdated notion, but I think.
Speaker A:But you know, it's still, it's still every.
Speaker A:Every once in a while, I think.
Speaker B:It'S still a thing that's pervasive and more like conservative religious, family kind of upbringings.
Speaker A:Like it was.
Speaker A:I think it was also big in like the 50s, 60s when.
Speaker A:When women were, were like the 40s, 50s, 60s, when women were like allowed to go into colleges.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:But it's like there wasn't really like a, a purpose or a workforce for them.
Speaker A:So it was just like, oh, they're just educated so they can meet like.
Speaker A:So they can be impressive and meet like a better man.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, but yeah, no, like, like padding their resume for, for like, well, you're a good wife.
Speaker B:Get your, your Mr.
Speaker B:Degree.
Speaker B:But now the Mr.
Speaker B:Is dead, so she's coming home.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker C:That's what, that's what it gave.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Exact thought, Rachel.
Speaker B:I really did, but yeah, I just.
Speaker B:Her mother's a fucking piece of work.
Speaker B:So Athena tries to explain to her, you know, when she says, what difference does that make?
Speaker B:Beatrice does.
Speaker B:She says, those cops, they think they're doing the right thing and Someone needs to show them that they're wrong.
Speaker B:And her mom's like, you're a fool, and I cannot allow you.
Speaker B:And she's like, I'm a fucking.
Speaker B:It's not your decision and it's not your business.
Speaker C:Go off.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And it's like, you.
Speaker A:I love this scene because you see the moment where, like, this shift, this rift just, like, breaks between them.
Speaker A:Because the whole.
Speaker A:Everything preceding that with the flashbacks showed how close Athena and her mom was, like, their relationship, even though they obviously still didn't totally see eye to eye on everything, but, like, there was a lot more, like, understanding or, like, just closeness there.
Speaker A:And this is, like, the moment where that just.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Broke.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:You definitely.
Speaker C:You definitely see it.
Speaker C:You definitely see it, like, when she's trying on the wedding dress.
Speaker C:You definitely see it, like, when they're talking about Emmett and all of that.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:The whole Mrs.
Speaker A:So valid.
Speaker C:But, yeah, like, she was more excited about her finding a man.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And that's how.
Speaker A:And that's.
Speaker A:That.
Speaker C:That was a lot of their.
Speaker C:Their closeness and, like, that.
Speaker C:That's the closest that was showcased in this episode.
Speaker C:And then.
Speaker C:And then it recircle back to.
Speaker C:That was the sun I always wanted.
Speaker A:Oh, my God.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:That really just, like, dug the knife in.
Speaker B:But I think what sticks with me about this, there's two things.
Speaker B:And the first one is, you know, a big part of Athena's motivation to continue to.
Speaker B:To stay a police officer.
Speaker B:Even though there is.
Speaker B:There's so many problems with being a police officer, especially as a woman of color, as a black woman.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, there's so much violence against black people committed by cops.
Speaker B:So I think this gives us a little more nuanced look at why, you know, her character specifically, like, even in the face of, like, that being rampant, decided to stay on.
Speaker B:But it also, just, like, on a personal note, because I care way more about that.
Speaker B:So, you know me.
Speaker B:I don't want to talk about cops.
Speaker B:Just that feeling of.
Speaker B:Of the people who should see you and care for you most in the world, just looking right through you.
Speaker B:I just, like, can't imagine that.
Speaker B:I really can't.
Speaker B:Like, as different as, like, my parents and I are in some aspects, it's like they've always seen me for me.
Speaker A:And I've always been asked for.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker B:And it's like, do your parents always have to, like, love everything about you in the sense of.
Speaker B:Well, I don't love that you're doing.
Speaker A:That, but they love you anyway.
Speaker B:They love you anyway.
Speaker B:And they support you because they want you to be happy.
Speaker B:And, yes, your parents want you to be safe, but it's like, they shouldn't be trying to control you.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And basically writing you off, disowning you, whatever, if you decide to do something that goes against what they say.
Speaker B:And I just.
Speaker B:As someone who is Buck Buckley coded, and I guess adjacently, partially Athena coded, that that, like, need to feel seen, to feel, like, known, loved, accepted, is just, like, when your parents don't.
Speaker B:I can't imagine, like, how hard that is.
Speaker B:So that's why that scene really sticks with me.
Speaker B:She's dealing with this, like, unfathomable loss, and then she has to deal with.
Speaker B:With this shit, which is, like, the opposite of, like, what her mother should be doing in this situation.
Speaker B:And this is just, like, I don't know, conjecture.
Speaker B:Just, like, based on the little we know about her parents and how she was raised, I really do think that what her mom wanted her.
Speaker B:Her to be and how she raised her, two completely different things.
Speaker A:Mm.
Speaker B:She wanted her to be this, like, demure wife, and she raised her to be a very strong, independent woman and then was disappointed when she turned out to be a very strong, independent woman.
Speaker A:No hand, you're so right.
Speaker A:It's like the cognitive dissonance there is astounding.
Speaker B:Can we.
Speaker A:What?
Speaker C:I.
Speaker A:Say it.
Speaker C:I don't know if it's controversial.
Speaker C:I don't know if it's, like, so yikes.
Speaker C:What I'm about to say.
Speaker B:This is a safe place.
Speaker C:We just needed.
Speaker C:We needed Emmett to die for, like, Athena's evolution.
Speaker C:But then I don't want to say it because, like, that's cursed.
Speaker A:Because then I say fridging almost or.
Speaker C:No, I'm not talking about, like, it being frigid.
Speaker C:Well, it is fridging, but, like, I.
Speaker C:I think I'm, like, For her to be, like, this strong.
Speaker C:No, that's not what I'm trying to say.
Speaker C:She was always strong.
Speaker C:Yeah, she was already strong, but I think so.
Speaker C:I think my question is, if she had.
Speaker C:It's kind of like a what if.
Speaker C:So if Emmett had lived and they got married, how would her relationship with her mom continue to be?
Speaker B:Because it would have been a situation where her mom loved Emmett but was still hypercritical of her choice.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:She would have gotten injured on the job eventually, and she would have been like, you should quit.
Speaker B:Like, you're married, and, like, you guys are.
Speaker B:Let him provide or, you should have kids.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, would be constantly nagging her about having kids.
Speaker B:Like, we saw her nagging her before she was even with someone.
Speaker B:I wonder, still would have been a lot of tension.
Speaker B:There would have been less.
Speaker B:There would still be tension.
Speaker A:Like, it.
Speaker A:Like, if Athena remained a cop, I think there would also always be that tension there.
Speaker A:I also wouldn't be surprised if.
Speaker A:If there was kind of like, be trying to get Emmett, like, on her side.
Speaker A:Like, why won't you, like, just talk to her, make her see reason that she doesn't have to do, you know, all of this sort of stuff.
Speaker A:Meanwhile, he has the right.
Speaker A:But it's like.
Speaker A:But he's a big, strong man.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And not her daughter.
Speaker A:I also think it.
Speaker A:It would be.
Speaker A:That's a really interesting question.
Speaker A:So I also think it's kind of interesting to compare how be acted with how Bobby acted when he found out and was concerned about Athena, you know, taking on this case by herself.
Speaker A:Because he was like, he was trying to understand him.
Speaker A:And we know that how much, like, he does actually see Athena.
Speaker A:And even when she told him, like, you may understand my pain, but you will never understand my struggle, like, he took that and was like, you know what?
Speaker B:Fair.
Speaker A:Like, that's.
Speaker A:That's all right.
Speaker A:And he didn't try to, like, persuade her either way.
Speaker A:He just kind of like, let it go from there because he, like, understands who Athena is.
Speaker A:And compared to what be does in that flashback where it's like, she doesn't even try.
Speaker A:She doesn't even try to understand Athena's struggle at that moment.
Speaker A:Like, I'm not even sure at that point that Bea understands Athena's pain on, like, a firsthand basis.
Speaker A:We don't know.
Speaker A:But on.
Speaker A:On that aspect, it's just like she.
Speaker A:She doesn't make an effort to.
Speaker A:Which I think is also nicely contrasted to the present during that, like, that, like, intervention, basically, when.
Speaker A:When Bea comes to visit and we see, like, in the present, like, how their relationship has gotten a little better, you know, after season two, and how Bea reinforces the idea that, like, it is.
Speaker A:What happened to Emmett wasn't Athena's fault and she doesn't have to feel guilty about that.
Speaker A:And I think that is, like, an important thing for Athena to hear.
Speaker B:We did forget to mention briefly.
Speaker B:This is a quintessential nightmare, I think, to be compared to your parent in a manner.
Speaker B:You're like, oh, I fucking hate that about my parent.
Speaker B:So at the very beginning of the episode when they're having dinner and May's boyfriend or date or whatever is over.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:And Athena's like, grilling him about his plans for college because he's taking a gap year.
Speaker B:And, you know, May's like, mom, be nice.
Speaker B:And she's like, am I not being nice?
Speaker B:And is it Harry?
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:Harry's like, no, you're being.
Speaker A:Yeah, I totally forgot about that.
Speaker A:Oh, my God.
Speaker B:I see from White in the room with us.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Just like, that kind of thing out of pocket.
Speaker A:He gets, like, his grandma, actually a little bit.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I mean, the way Athena goes about doing that is in a very Athena, like, cop first way.
Speaker A:But it's a learned behavior from her mother.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Where.
Speaker A:Where she's also, like, trying to raise a very strong, independent woman in May.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:But also being kind of, like, hypercritical of certain things.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And like, of course, Athena is different, but, like.
Speaker A:Yeah, I think.
Speaker A:I think Athena does need to hear.
Speaker A:Even even though she and her mom still aren't always on the same page, it's getting better.
Speaker A:But like, that.
Speaker A:That insistent that B.
Speaker A:Is a little more understanding now than she was way back then, where it's like she understands that.
Speaker A:That Athena was carrying that guilt for 30 years and.
Speaker A:And that she doesn't want to have.
Speaker A:She doesn't want Athena to have to put all of that in another box for another 30 years.
Speaker A:So, like, there is an understanding that they get to.
Speaker A:But it's still not like, quite like that.
Speaker A:That rift that was there with them for, I guess, the 30 years.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Is so, so hard to repair.
Speaker A:But they're like.
Speaker A:They're making little bridges there.
Speaker A:But it was.
Speaker A:It's such a deep hurt because that.
Speaker A:Because that originally, it will give Beatrice.
Speaker B:Of the present more credit than I will the Buckleys or the Diaz's, because it looks like she does make an effort.
Speaker B:She is just a very abrasive, judgmental person.
Speaker A:That's just who she is.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:It's like.
Speaker A:It's fine.
Speaker A:It's not fine.
Speaker C:It's not mine.
Speaker A:And she.
Speaker B:And she shows up to be there for her daughter, not to judge her.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, she does say, I heard you blew up your life.
Speaker C:God, there's only people.
Speaker C:There's only a couple people that can throw shade.
Speaker C:And that's her mom and Harry, apparently.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:It runs in the family.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So it's like.
Speaker A:Yeah, that.
Speaker A:That hurt that happened 30 years ago was.
Speaker A:Was like, such a.
Speaker A:Such a deep thing.
Speaker A:Like a deep rift to.
Speaker A:To make at such, like, a pivotal point for Athena in her life.
Speaker A:But it is nice to see, like, how they're trying to mend those fences and move Forward and, like, be there for one another the way, like, a mom should be there for their kid.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Even adult kid.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Great.
Speaker B:Slow burn.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker A:You would think in an episode without either Buck or Eddie that there would be no slow burn.
Speaker B:However, I'm so proud I didn't come up with any of these.
Speaker A:I felt.
Speaker A:I felt the spirit of Han like, wash through me when I was like, I'm glad.
Speaker A:Oh, I was too depressed.
Speaker B:Too depressed to.
Speaker B:To Fujoshi out.
Speaker C:I will say that while I was watching the episode, there were.
Speaker C:There were times when I'm like.
Speaker C:Because.
Speaker C:Because I, again, unfortunately, I am of the Buddy Bethena parallel agenda.
Speaker C:I kept thinking about, well, if I put, you know, like, I would.
Speaker C:I would try to kind of, like, imagine, like, putting them in this kind of the same situation.
Speaker C:But I didn't have anything written down until literally, like, maybe an hour ago.
Speaker B:Oh, so when you had your blame blast.
Speaker B:Yeah, blame.
Speaker C:Your blame.
Speaker A:Your blame blast.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:That's when I had my brain.
Speaker C:It's low key, but I'll let Rachel lead.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:So what I kind of found was the point we mentioned very briefly when Michael was talking to Bobby and he's like, I built this patio.
Speaker A:I'm a guest in my own house sort of thing.
Speaker A:And I just.
Speaker A:That kind of like, oh, peaked a little thing in my brain where.
Speaker A:And you guys might have to help me, like, put the straws together because this was like 6am Barty here.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker A:Okay, good.
Speaker A:But, you know, later on in season three, I think it's 3:11, which is seize the Day.
Speaker A:And this is the moment where everyone is at Eddie's house and, you know, Maddie is telling him, like, that he needed to have brought something.
Speaker A:And Buck is like, this is Eddie's house.
Speaker A:I'm not really a guest.
Speaker A:And how.
Speaker A:Something about how this idea of.
Speaker A:That aligns with the idea of partners and specifically romantic partners, because Michael was romantically involved with Athena, but he is no longer.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker A:So he is a guest in that house.
Speaker A:He is no longer like, of.
Speaker A:Of the.
Speaker A:Can you help me with that?
Speaker B:So even though he helped make that house a home, he no longer lives there.
Speaker A:Thank you.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:And even though he's part of the family unit, he's not in the same capacity.
Speaker B:He's.
Speaker A:Yes, he's different.
Speaker C:He's feeling replaced.
Speaker B:He's feeling out of sorts.
Speaker B:Like, not.
Speaker B:He's feeling removed.
Speaker B:He's feeling like it was never really his.
Speaker C:Oh, my God.
Speaker A:Oh, my God.
Speaker A:I mean, it was, but.
Speaker A:Yeah, but.
Speaker B:So there's a parallel here for 3.
Speaker B:11 and to 8.
Speaker A:18.
Speaker A:Great.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Because we're.
Speaker A:We're.
Speaker B:Buck is touring new places, and the realtor's like, what was wrong with your last place?
Speaker B:And he's like, oh, it was never really mine.
Speaker B:I was just subleting.
Speaker A:So, yeah.
Speaker A:So then it also.
Speaker A:With that.
Speaker A:With that part of the conversation with Michael saying, like, I'm a guest in my own house.
Speaker A:That also implies that Bobby is not a guest.
Speaker B:No, he's not.
Speaker A:Because he's making this.
Speaker B:He had his stepdaughter set up space to sleep in the same room as Harry so that there could be an open room for Michael to be a guest in the house he built to sleep there.
Speaker B:So he's not a.
Speaker B:He's not a guest in that home.
Speaker B:That's his home.
Speaker B:That's his family.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:So Buck having.
Speaker B:See some Dynamics of Face.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:9.
Speaker B:With Buck feeling like he is a guest, maybe is a guest in the Diaz home, feeling like he's not in the spot that he's used to being in the Diaz family.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker B:Yeah, I saw you put that.
Speaker B:And I was like, oh, yes.
Speaker A:Okay, good.
Speaker A:Because I was like, I know there's something there.
Speaker A:I can't fully articulate that.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:Thank you so much.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:That.
Speaker A:That idea about, like, home guests in the home.
Speaker A:Then we also have.
Speaker A:When Bea is talking to Athena, I think in the present tense during the.
Speaker A:The, like, family intervention sort of thing.
Speaker A:And Bea tells Athena, like, she's speaking about the guilt that Athena carries.
Speaker A:And she says to Athena, I know you would have taken that bullet for him, but you weren't there, and there's nothing you could do.
Speaker A:So, like, you have to absolve yourself of that guilt.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:Oh, who else thinks that they.
Speaker A:It would have been better if it was them who had been shot.
Speaker B:But just standing there, who couldn't do anything to save him.
Speaker A:It's not my fault.
Speaker A:It.
Speaker A:It's right there.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker A:But Buck in 414, talking to Eddie.
Speaker B:He.
Speaker A:It.
Speaker A:I was thinking it would have been better if it was me who had been shot.
Speaker A:And it's just like, literally, like, Buck also wanting to take a bullet for Eddie, just like Athena wanting to have taken that bullet for Emmett.
Speaker A:It's just like, that is so.
Speaker A:I mean, come on.
Speaker A:Partner, romantic partner, soulmate, coded.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:And it's.
Speaker A:And it's continuing that tie between Buck and Athena as well, which makes sense.
Speaker A:And I think I didn't write this down, but I think there's also something about.
Speaker A:Something about Athena having Lost a partner and then finding the love of her life with Bobby.
Speaker A:Something.
Speaker A:Something about Eddie having lost Shannon and maybe finding the love of his life with Buck.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:As well.
Speaker A:That kind of similarity there is that me.
Speaker A:Go for it.
Speaker C:Okay, so I had a.
Speaker C:I had a low key buddy in Bethena parallel, which, funny enough, Athena begins.
Speaker C:And the parallel is in Buck begins.
Speaker C:So it's kind of like the structure of the episode.
Speaker C:Like how it kind of.
Speaker C:Well, okay, well, it didn't end there.
Speaker A:But oh, so smart.
Speaker C:So Athena does it kind of.
Speaker C:It's close to the end before Buck begins, but like Athena coming back home after accomplishing what she set out to do, she says, like, I found him.
Speaker C:And then I, you know, she tells Bobby, I found him.
Speaker C:And then Bobby's like, good, I'm glad.
Speaker C:And then, you know, she proceeds to break down.
Speaker C:But when Buck begins, it's like after the fire.
Speaker B:Mm.
Speaker C:And, you know, Eddie comes up.
Speaker C:So they greet.
Speaker C:So Bobby and Buck greet Eddie.
Speaker C:And Eddie comes up to him and he's like, show off.
Speaker C:And Buck is like, I had to do it.
Speaker C:And then Eddie's like.
Speaker C:And Eddie's like.
Speaker C:And Eddie's like, I know you did.
Speaker C:Like, it was kind of like.
Speaker C:It was like Bobby and Eddie are in this, like, roles of support.
Speaker C:And you kind of see it also, I think, in the.
Speaker C:I think in the previous episode before Buck begins, where Buck is, like, doing the.
Speaker C:Like, he's.
Speaker C:He's punching the punching bag and they're talking about how, like, he blew up at his parents.
Speaker C:And like, Eddie's like, well, you didn't say anything that, you know, that wasn't true.
Speaker C:Yeah, but, like, I think that it just solidifies the fact that they were both.
Speaker C:That the Buddy and Bethena, like, they.
Speaker C:They parallel each other where.
Speaker C:In which Eddie and Bobby are in those roles of support while Buck and Athena are going through their.
Speaker C:Their journey of, like, closure.
Speaker C:Mm.
Speaker C:That's what it was.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Oh, that's so good.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And just like, the way that, like, in those instances, both Bobby and Eddie just like, fully know.
Speaker A:Athena knows who they are.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker A:Like, you had to do it.
Speaker A:I know you did.
Speaker A:He, like, Bobby knows exactly what Athena like, without.
Speaker A:Without very many words, you know.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:And there was another.
Speaker C:There was another thing that, that Eddie says in one of these episodes.
Speaker C:Oh, it's the.
Speaker C:It's the part where, like, Buck is like, yeah, I was.
Speaker C:I was born for, like, defective parts.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Spare parts.
Speaker C:Defective parts.
Speaker C:And he's like, well, that's not on you.
Speaker C:So, you know, like, It's.
Speaker C:It's kind of like how like Bobby's.
Speaker C:You know, it's like they don't understand the struggle that they go through, but they're like there to be supportive and because they know them and they're like.
Speaker C:They're trying to like, be there for them.
Speaker B:So you really need sometimes is just someone to be there.
Speaker C:And like, Eddie doesn't have your back.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker C:That's also something that he doesn't do.
Speaker C:Kind of like what Bobby doesn't really do in.
Speaker C:In this episode.
Speaker C:Like, he doesn't overstep.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:They're just there.
Speaker A:They're just.
Speaker B:They give them space to feel what they're feeling and they don't try and.
Speaker A:Like, walk all over it.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:Like, they just literally step in it with them.
Speaker A:And it is just there.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And it's like.
Speaker C:And it's like that thing where.
Speaker C:Where 911 does that thing.
Speaker C:So it's that.
Speaker C:It's that thing that 911 does where they're doing like the whole.
Speaker C:The coupling of the couples.
Speaker C:And like, Buck's support was Eddie in Buck Begins.
Speaker C:It wasn't really.
Speaker C:I mean, it wasn't too much, Maddie, because that was really where that conflict was where, like, she was like, hiding that piece of information, that secret.
Speaker C:Eddie was in that role of being the supportive character or partner.
Speaker C:Supportive partner.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Okay, I'm done.
Speaker A:No, I love that.
Speaker A:I think.
Speaker A:I think there's so much that you really can pull with Buddy and Bethena and like, maybe just to like, thought experiment to kind of extrapolate the whole Eddie being shot and paralleling that to Emmett.
Speaker A:But also how, like, if Athena was there, how that would have kind of changed things or how she would have acted.
Speaker A:And I think it would have.
Speaker A:We would have.
Speaker A:If.
Speaker A:If she was present at that time, she would have probably acted in a similar manner as Buck because Buck being there is what helped save Eddie's life.
Speaker A:And for.
Speaker A:I think we would have kind of seen.
Speaker A:In this is the total hypothetical.
Speaker A:Like, what if.
Speaker A:I think we would have kind of seen Athena act in the same manner.
Speaker A:Like, try to try to stop the bleeding.
Speaker A:Like either catch Jenkins or.
Speaker A:Or triage or like a little bit of both.
Speaker A:Something like that.
Speaker A:So, like, Athena is also like a.
Speaker A:You know, what if she.
Speaker A:Like part of that guilt for her is like, what if I was there?
Speaker A:And then you have.
Speaker A:On the flip side, Buck's guilt is like, well, I was there, but I wasn't really able to do anything to stop it.
Speaker A:So I think it's Kind of like it's.
Speaker A:It's like a.
Speaker A:Two sides of.
Speaker A:Of the same coin sort of situation.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:I feel like there's.
Speaker A:There's parallels to be drawn there as well.
Speaker A:And just.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:And I don't think we really talked about, like, I know this is.
Speaker C:This is probably not in the sober section, but, like, you know, 4 14.
Speaker C:No, 4 13.
Speaker C:4 14.
Speaker C:You know, Eddie getting shot.
Speaker C:Bobby also got shot.
Speaker C:She needed to be there to, you know, to save him.
Speaker C:She was actually.
Speaker C:She was able to, like, okay.
Speaker C:With Emmett.
Speaker C:She was not there, so she couldn't save him, but she was able to save her.
Speaker A:Her.
Speaker C:You know, her new.
Speaker C:Her other.
Speaker C:Her new love.
Speaker B:You know, I never drawn that parallel.
Speaker A:I know that as we're talking about.
Speaker C:It, I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:So, like, so, like, she basically does do what Buck does, where she was.
Speaker B:Like a man shooting firefighters.
Speaker B:Okay, put me in coach.
Speaker A:Put me in coach.
Speaker B:I'm doing this again.
Speaker A:Literally, she.
Speaker A:She walked into the.
Speaker A:The building on fire to do that, and Buck, you know, went under the fire truck and pulled Eddie to safety.
Speaker A:It's the same thing.
Speaker A:It is the same thing.
Speaker A:Okay, so, like, that hypothetical we actually see play out, but without Bobby, she.
Speaker C:Was able to rewrite the prophecy.
Speaker A:Yeah, no, that totally goes in.
Speaker A:Slow burn.
Speaker A:Oh, my God.
Speaker C:Wow.
Speaker C:Rewrite the prophecy, Change your prophecy, change the product.
Speaker A:Yeah, I think.
Speaker A:I think there's just, like, so many parallels.
Speaker A:And I'm sure, like, by the time we get to Buck begins, we'll find more with that stuff.
Speaker C:I wish I was paying.
Speaker C:I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker C:Like, I kind of wish I paid more attention for season two.
Speaker C:And now.
Speaker C:I mean, now I know I'll be.
Speaker C:I'll be paying more attention.
Speaker C:But, like, prior to this episode and in season two, I kind of wish I was paying more attention for this Bethena parallels, because, like, I think those go crazy.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:I'm obsessed.
Speaker A:Yeah, they.
Speaker A:They really do.
Speaker C:Like, the only parallel we can't do is Bobby dying and one of them die.
Speaker C:I mean, the.
Speaker C:The Bobby dying paralleling one of one half of Buddy dying.
Speaker A:I know only near death.
Speaker B:We can do near death.
Speaker B:We can do.
Speaker B:Presume dead, even.
Speaker C:Yeah, I can do that.
Speaker A:No more dead dead.
Speaker A:No, we're not doing that again.
Speaker B:I don't think anyone else wants to leave the show, so.
Speaker B:Well, besides maybe Angela at some point, but I don't think they're gonna kill her.
Speaker A:No, they will not.
Speaker A:They see how that turned out.
Speaker B:Remember, don't send your fiance to the store for cream.
Speaker A:But if you do, take a buddy with you.
Speaker B:Thank you for listening to the Buddy System podcast from start the to finish.
Speaker C:We literally cannot shut up about 91 1, so please come talk to us on your favorite social media platform.
Speaker A:We are at Buddy System POD everywhere.
Speaker A:That's B U D D I E System Pod.
Speaker B:Leave a five star review on Spotify or Apple Podcasts to get a personal shout out in the next episode.
Speaker B:The Buddy System is a nerd virgin Media production featuring music from Divinity.
Speaker C:Can't get enough of the Buddies?
Speaker C:Subscribe to our Patreon for access to exclusive content in our Discord community.
Speaker A:Catch you next time.
Speaker A:And don't forget, bring a buddy with you.
