Make the Yuletide Gay (2x10: Merry Ex-Mas)

Han: 00:00:01

Have you ever watched something that completely rewired your brain chemistry?

Sil: 00:00:05

A procedural network drama might not be your usual pick, but it's ours.

Rachel: 00:00:10

This is the Buddy System, a 911 deep dive podcast hosted by three friends who have DMed each other enough character dissertations to earn a PhD in media literacy.

Han: 00:00:22

I'm Han, coming to you straight from the characters heads.

Sil: 00:00:25

I'm Sil bringing you to the observation deck.

Rachel: 00:00:28

And I'm Rachel, connecting the dots with my red string.

Han: 00:00:31

With our powers combined, no stone is.

Rachel: 00:00:34

Left unturned and no buddy is left behind.

Rachel: 00:00:41

This episode is brought to you by Maddie and Chimney's Very Jewish Christmas.

Rachel: 00:00:45

Welcome to Dispatch.

Rachel: 00:00:47

What's on call this week?

Sil: 00:00:48

Today we're discussing season two, episode ten, titled Merry Xmas.

Sil: 00:00:54

Written by Christopher Montfet, Directed by Bradley Buecker.

Sil: 00:00:58

th,: 2018

Han: 00:01:03

We have some festive calls of the week.

Han: 00:01:06

The first is Hit the Deck the Halls.

Han: 00:01:09

In an attempt to one up his neighbor's Christmas light show, a man gets knocked off his roof by an inflatable decoration.

Han: 00:01:15

We have special delivery at a shipping facility.

Han: 00:01:18

A young man gets stuck inside a package bound for a Christmas delivery under the missile drone.

Han: 00:01:23

A waitress is attacked by a flying mistletoe outfitted drone that shaves off the tip of her nose.

Han: 00:01:29

And I'll be home for Christmas.

Han: 00:01:30

A Marine on his way home to surprise his daughter at her Christmas recital gets way late after getting caught in a bus accident.

Rachel: 00:01:37

So this is our very festive Christmas episode.

Rachel: 00:01:41

And we're so dedicated that we decorated and dressed up.

Rachel: 00:01:47

We're recording this on Halloween.

Han: 00:01:49

It's literally Halloween right now.

Han: 00:01:51

It is 9:23pm Oct.

Han: 00:01:54

31, but we.

Rachel: 00:01:57

Wanted to bring the holiday cheer.

Rachel: 00:02:00

Okay.

Rachel: 00:02:01

And if you're not.

Rachel: 00:02:03

If you're not watching us on YouTube, which, by the way, you can watch all of our podcast episodes on YouTube on the Buddy System YouTube channel.

Rachel: 00:02:11

We are decked out, I guess you could say, in our very wonderful Christmas ugly sweaters.

Rachel: 00:02:19

Well.

Sil: 00:02:20

Well, mine is a T shirt.

Rachel: 00:02:22

Close enough.

Han: 00:02:24

This is Batman's emo Christmas.

Rachel: 00:02:27

Yes.

Rachel: 00:02:27

What did you say, Han, earlier?

Rachel: 00:02:29

We're representing the three.

Rachel: 00:02:30

Oh, I said we're the three.

Han: 00:02:32

Except we're the three.

Han: 00:02:33

Winter holidays.

Han: 00:02:36

It's Christmas, Hanukkah and Batman.

Rachel: 00:02:42

So.

Rachel: 00:02:42

So Scylla is representing Christmas.

Rachel: 00:02:46

I am wearing my ugly Hanukkah sweater, which says, winner, winner, kosher dinner.

Rachel: 00:02:52

Ta da.

Han: 00:02:55

And I.

Han: 00:02:55

I just.

Han: 00:02:56

I have Batman and he's.

Han: 00:02:58

It's the bat signal.

Rachel: 00:02:59

Wait, it's sequins.

Han: 00:03:01

Oh, yeah, I know.

Rachel: 00:03:03

Okay.

Rachel: 00:03:04

Yours is the coolest one.

Sil: 00:03:05

She wins.

Han: 00:03:06

But it's awkward.

Han: 00:03:07

Cause, like, at family gatherings.

Han: 00:03:09

Cause I'm like, stimming.

Han: 00:03:10

I'm like.

Rachel: 00:03:13

Okay, so you won the ugly sweater contest.

Han: 00:03:16

Also for people watching on YouTube or I guess, listening.

Han: 00:03:19

Cause I'm explaining this verbally.

Han: 00:03:21

Anyway, I have a Christmas tree behind me.

Han: 00:03:24

And I don't want you to think that I insanely put this up on Halloween.

Han: 00:03:28

It's literally been up since last December.

Han: 00:03:31

We just moved it from the living room.

Sil: 00:03:32

That's worse.

Rachel: 00:03:33

All year round.

Han: 00:03:36

It's a skinny little one.

Han: 00:03:37

And we put it in the corner of the living room.

Han: 00:03:40

And I put it up so late last year that I was like, we gotta leave it up.

Han: 00:03:44

And I normally leave it up till March anyway.

Han: 00:03:45

Cause I'm an insane person.

Han: 00:03:47

And then it was like, May and my partner and I looked at each other and we're like, this just lives here now, right?

Han: 00:03:52

Except for when I need it for a podcast episode.

Han: 00:03:54

Then it's gonna go right back into the living room.

Rachel: 00:03:57

I don't know.

Rachel: 00:03:57

You can be celebratory all year round for different things.

Rachel: 00:04:00

It's.

Rachel: 00:04:01

It's a.

Han: 00:04:01

It's just a mar.

Han: 00:04:02

It's just a.

Han: 00:04:03

It's a nerd tree.

Han: 00:04:05

It's not really Christmas.

Rachel: 00:04:07

Anyways, so all of that to say.

Rachel: 00:04:09

We're so dedicated to bringing you the Christmas episode.

Rachel: 00:04:13

The Christmas episode.

Han: 00:04:16

The 911 Christmas episode.

Han: 00:04:17

Because, I mean, we have, like, some Christmas specials coming up, but take us.

Sil: 00:04:20

Away into Silent Night, Rachel, let's go.

Sil: 00:04:23

Or hand.

Han: 00:04:24

So Christmas.

Han: 00:04:25

So this is.

Han: 00:04:25

This is an episode.

Han: 00:04:27

How did we feel about this episode?

Han: 00:04:29

Oh, yeah.

Rachel: 00:04:29

We didn't even talk about that.

Han: 00:04:31

We started talking about Christmas, and it just devolved.

Han: 00:04:34

Oh.

Han: 00:04:34

So quickly as it does how I.

Sil: 00:04:37

Feel about the episode.

Sil: 00:04:38

It's.

Sil: 00:04:39

It's Christmas, and I'm a fan of elves.

Han: 00:04:43

Number one Elf Stan.

Sil: 00:04:45

Number one Elf Stan.

Sil: 00:04:47

No.

Sil: 00:04:47

You have a.

Sil: 00:04:47

You have a very adorable son.

Han: 00:04:49

She sees gay, she says gay.

Rachel: 00:04:52

Save that first lover.

Sil: 00:04:56

As far as the episode goes, elves aside, I don't know.

Sil: 00:04:59

It's a good episode.

Sil: 00:05:01

It had one of the best fucking.

Sil: 00:05:04

I was gagged at the end of that episode.

Han: 00:05:07

Oh, shit.

Rachel: 00:05:08

Yes.

Sil: 00:05:09

The reveal.

Han: 00:05:10

We were unwell.

Han: 00:05:11

Okay.

Rachel: 00:05:11

Because we rewatched.

Rachel: 00:05:13

This is a rewatch.

Rachel: 00:05:14

Like, we've seen it before.

Rachel: 00:05:15

But, like, thinking back to, like, the first time that you watched this, I was like.

Rachel: 00:05:20

I was like, like, gagged, gooped, you.

Sil: 00:05:24

Know, it's so funny because we're gonna get into it, but, like, I'm just.

Sil: 00:05:29

I have like this penchant for kind of like giving or getting vibes from a person or in this case characters.

Rachel: 00:05:36

And I'm just like, you have a wide, excellent vibe radar.

Han: 00:05:40

You do?

Sil: 00:05:40

Vibe check.

Sil: 00:05:41

Yeah, yeah, that guy did not pass the vibe check.

Sil: 00:05:45

Just like redacted.

Sil: 00:05:46

But anyway, yeah, no, I watch it.

Han: 00:05:49

We're calling him now on the pod.

Rachel: 00:05:52

Not even that man.

Sil: 00:05:56

Yeah.

Sil: 00:05:56

So I have, I have, I have a pretty good vibe check or vibe radar or whatever.

Sil: 00:06:01

And like just seeing him on screen, just showing up out of nowhere.

Sil: 00:06:07

Did not pass.

Sil: 00:06:08

Did not pass.

Sil: 00:06:09

And then, and then I was still, I was still gagged when I first watched this episode.

Sil: 00:06:13

And then, I don't know.

Sil: 00:06:14

I mean, it's a good episode.

Sil: 00:06:16

It's a good episode.

Sil: 00:06:17

It has like cute family, family reunion stuff and then, you know, relationship milestones that we're, that we're getting through.

Sil: 00:06:25

Other than that.

Sil: 00:06:26

Yeah.

Sil: 00:06:26

A good episode overall.

Rachel: 00:06:27

Yeah.

Rachel: 00:06:27

Like, I think it's.

Rachel: 00:06:28

I think it's a very solid episode and I think it did something pretty well where it, like, I feel like a lot of times for a holiday episode of kind of anything, it can lean into like the hokiness of it very easily and especially with something like 911, which is very inherently campy.

Rachel: 00:06:50

I feel like that could have been very easily done.

Rachel: 00:06:54

But I think they managed to keep this episode like very grounded.

Rachel: 00:06:58

There were some light hearted moments.

Rachel: 00:07:00

I wouldn't say it's like the funniest episode.

Rachel: 00:07:03

I think there are others that are far funnier.

Rachel: 00:07:05

But it maintains that balance between like the light hearted moments with like the.

Rachel: 00:07:10

This undercurrent of not seriousness, of like heart, not to say like light hearted and the heart of the episode.

Rachel: 00:07:18

But that's kind of what it is.

Rachel: 00:07:20

Like what is all surrounding.

Rachel: 00:07:21

It was like very tight thematically to me.

Rachel: 00:07:24

And it didn't lean too far into the.

Rachel: 00:07:27

It's holiday silly goofy camp.

Rachel: 00:07:30

It was just like the regular kind of camp, which again I don't have a problem with.

Rachel: 00:07:35

But sometimes I'm just like, I don't know.

Sil: 00:07:37

I think it's really well balanced because it had, you know, some of those calls were pretty campy.

Sil: 00:07:43

And then you had a lot of like Hallmark Christmas.

Rachel: 00:07:46

Yeah.

Sil: 00:07:47

And then you also had like emotional like some serious tones in there too.

Sil: 00:07:51

So I think it's a really well balanced, you know, getting all of the.

Rachel: 00:07:56

I guess tighten all the marks.

Sil: 00:07:58

Yeah.

Sil: 00:07:59

The only thing I do have to say is, and I said that, I think I said this the other day, I was like, imagine, imagine if we were Watching season two live because I don't know if I was going to.

Sil: 00:08:10

I don't think I would have been able to handle that.

Han: 00:08:13

I always think about Meg and I'm like, rip.

Rachel: 00:08:15

Oh, yeah.

Rachel: 00:08:17

Oh, my gosh.

Rachel: 00:08:18

Yes.

Rachel: 00:08:18

So, like, if anyone who's listening now has been watching from like the beginning or at least like season two, please, please tell us the.

Han: 00:08:27

Right.

Han: 00:08:27

And that's the mid season finale.

Han: 00:08:29

So you get that fucking three months hiatus and then you have to wait three months.

Rachel: 00:08:35

So, like, anyone who's listening, please tell us about your experience watching this with like such a shocker of a cliffhanger and then waiting so long for the mid season premiere because, like, we understand, but, like, what theories were going on.

Rachel: 00:08:57

Like, I want to know what, what.

Sil: 00:08:59

Fandom was saying, because I know I immediately hit the next episode button when.

Han: 00:09:04

I was doing my.

Sil: 00:09:05

My first run through.

Sil: 00:09:06

So it's like, no.

Sil: 00:09:07

And actually that was the one.

Sil: 00:09:08

I think that was the episode that really.

Sil: 00:09:10

That really hooked me.

Sil: 00:09:11

I was like, oh, okay, we're getting serious now.

Han: 00:09:15

It's one of the best storylines that the show has done.

Rachel: 00:09:19

The Doug.

Rachel: 00:09:20

The entire.

Rachel: 00:09:21

Doug and Maddie.

Sil: 00:09:21

Doug and Maddie.

Rachel: 00:09:22

Oh, yeah.

Rachel: 00:09:23

Oh, it packs a punch.

Sil: 00:09:25

Yeah.

Rachel: 00:09:26

Sorry for the pun.

Rachel: 00:09:27

Pun not intended.

Sil: 00:09:28

It just went over my head, honestly.

Han: 00:09:30

I'm gonna make you a shirt that says pun always intended.

Rachel: 00:09:33

I will wear that so proudly, please.

Rachel: 00:09:37

Oh, my God, everybody must know.

Han: 00:09:41

I think they.

Han: 00:09:43

I think they know.

Han: 00:09:46

The listeners absolutely know, at least.

Rachel: 00:09:48

Yeah.

Han: 00:09:49

I don't know everything they said.

Han: 00:09:50

I love Christmas.

Han: 00:09:52

I love holiday episodes of things.

Han: 00:09:54

I think I liked this more than the Halloween one, just in the way that it wasn't as depressing.

Rachel: 00:10:02

It had a little, like, holiday spirit in there.

Han: 00:10:05

Yeah.

Han: 00:10:06

It had like, you know, some of that heartwarming like, like Sol said, like, Hallmark feel where it's, you know, it's all about the family coming together and then you get to see all of, well, most of the fam together at the end.

Han: 00:10:19

I want more of that.

Rachel: 00:10:20

Yeah, please, me too.

Han: 00:10:22

But yeah, generally just a very good episode.

Han: 00:10:25

There's some weird things here.

Han: 00:10:26

Can't wait to talk about it.

Rachel: 00:10:28

Oh, yeah.

Rachel: 00:10:29

I think this episode is kind of like infamous for a number of different things.

Han: 00:10:34

Yeah.

Rachel: 00:10:35

That sometimes, like, the fact that it's a Christmas episode is secondary to it, which is kind of interesting.

Rachel: 00:10:41

So.

Rachel: 00:10:41

Yeah, well, we'll talk about that.

Han: 00:10:43

I mean, we remember because of the elf.

Rachel: 00:10:45

Well, that's what I'm talking.

Rachel: 00:10:47

I mean, yeah, hard to forget that.

Han: 00:10:49

It'S Christmas because it's the elf, but.

Rachel: 00:10:51

Some of the other stuff, it's like, oh, yeah, that was.

Rachel: 00:10:53

That was a Christmas episode.

Rachel: 00:10:55

So who wants to talk about some deep, divey things?

Han: 00:11:03

Uh, we're gonna need the Jaws of Life over here.

Sil: 00:11:06

Give me the production tea, Rachel.

Rachel: 00:11:08

Oh, I got it.

Rachel: 00:11:11

Okay, so there was serious for one second.

Sil: 00:11:15

Okay.

Han: 00:11:16

Again, this is a very serious show.

Rachel: 00:11:19

Obviously, like we said, documentary levels of realism.

Han: 00:11:23

Oh, I meant us.

Rachel: 00:11:24

We're so serious.

Han: 00:11:26

91 1.

Han: 00:11:26

Not serious.

Han: 00:11:27

We're serious.

Han: 00:11:28

The tea.

Rachel: 00:11:29

Yes.

Sil: 00:11:29

Production tea.

Rachel: 00:11:30

Yes.

Rachel: 00:11:31

While it's hot, please pipe in piping hot.

Rachel: 00:11:34

Okay, so I found a number of articles that came out around the time of this episode airing.

Rachel: 00:11:40

There was one interesting one that from the wrap, they spoke to Tim Minir about how, like, the formula that they tend to use for each episode's emergencies.

Rachel: 00:11:52

I thought that was really interesting because again, we like to look at some of the.

Rachel: 00:11:57

Behind the.

Rachel: 00:11:58

Behind the curtain, you know, production standpoints.

Rachel: 00:12:02

Some of what he said that was like the main crux of the show is like, how do you balance the personal stories with the emergencies?

Rachel: 00:12:10

And that is what they're always trying to figure out per episode.

Rachel: 00:12:13

So he said they have a rule of thumb that there may be about four or five cases in an episode, which I've definitely.

Han: 00:12:20

Which we.

Rachel: 00:12:20

I think we've picked up on because we like.

Rachel: 00:12:23

We list them out.

Rachel: 00:12:23

So it's usually like in.

Rachel: 00:12:26

I have it in the template of our notes.

Rachel: 00:12:28

It's just like it's four.

Rachel: 00:12:29

So he said there's something that might highlight the 911 call center, like the guy in the box.

Rachel: 00:12:35

So the Maddie call.

Rachel: 00:12:37

And then they pick it up later after he's been shipped.

Rachel: 00:12:40

So it goes into the firefighter response call.

Rachel: 00:12:43

And then they look for something that's a little W2F is what he said.

Rachel: 00:12:48

Something that might be body horror, something that might be kind of funny.

Rachel: 00:12:52

And then they also try to get something that feels moving and touching.

Rachel: 00:12:57

That's life and death.

Rachel: 00:12:59

And often those two things are the same.

Rachel: 00:13:02

The moving and touching and the life and death story might be, you know, one, one and the same, which I think we do find a lot of.

Rachel: 00:13:09

A lot of the times as well.

Sil: 00:13:10

I was like, the escalator is the one that comes up.

Rachel: 00:13:13

Oh, my gosh.

Rachel: 00:13:14

I feel like the escalator one is.

Rachel: 00:13:15

So it's kind of forgotten about a little bit.

Rachel: 00:13:19

But, like, not.

Han: 00:13:20

Not to me.

Sil: 00:13:21

No.

Rachel: 00:13:22

Where I don't see.

Rachel: 00:13:23

I don't see a lot of people, like, really talking about it a lot.

Han: 00:13:26

New Fear unlocked.

Han: 00:13:27

Yeah, that's.

Han: 00:13:28

So I Think about it.

Han: 00:13:29

Every time I'm literally on an escalator.

Han: 00:13:32

Yeah.

Rachel: 00:13:32

The last time I was on an escalator, I was like, oh, this happened on 911.

Rachel: 00:13:36

Great.

Sil: 00:13:38

Yeah.

Sil: 00:13:38

It's funny because, like, I don't think about that on elevators.

Sil: 00:13:41

Like, I.

Sil: 00:13:42

We've seen a lot of elevator.

Han: 00:13:44

Nah.

Sil: 00:13:44

Things.

Sil: 00:13:45

No, it's like, no, because there's.

Sil: 00:13:46

What the.

Han: 00:13:47

Are you going to do?

Han: 00:13:48

Never take an elevator?

Han: 00:13:49

No.

Han: 00:13:50

With the escalator, I'm like, I will just.

Han: 00:13:52

My legs are long.

Han: 00:13:53

I will just step over that plate for the rest of my life.

Sil: 00:13:57

No, and also like with an.

Sil: 00:13:59

Sorry.

Sil: 00:13:59

And like one more thing.

Sil: 00:14:00

Like with an elevator, it's kind of like, well, I chose to get on this contraption.

Han: 00:14:05

So look, plane.

Rachel: 00:14:06

It's the difference between getting stuck and getting trapped.

Rachel: 00:14:10

Right.

Rachel: 00:14:11

And then he just said one more thing about like that this kind of like four or five emergency structure and what they're kind of looking for to get out of each of those.

Rachel: 00:14:21

So he said when he first started television, TV was a teaser and four acts.

Rachel: 00:14:26

So a teaser, I'm thinking that's like the cold open and four acts.

Rachel: 00:14:31

So he said, now it's really a teaser and six act.

Rachel: 00:14:35

So there are a lot more act breaks and a lot more narrative pieces that need to be filled between those act breaks.

Rachel: 00:14:41

And you want to be sure you don't go more than maybe one or two acts without a case.

Rachel: 00:14:46

So I thought that was just interesting in the way, like kind of him recognizing because he's been in TV so long, kind of recognizing how the structure has changed episodically and how much more like there tends to be crammed in an episode like beyond maybe an ABC plot.

Rachel: 00:15:07

Like, there's a lot of extra little things, but it's also, I feel like it might be easier for them to accomplish in this kind of show because it is an ensemble.

Rachel: 00:15:16

So you have more to pull from anyways.

Rachel: 00:15:18

Whereas if you had a smaller cast of Char.

Rachel: 00:15:22

Like a main cast of characters where you're following maybe like two or three people.

Rachel: 00:15:27

A six act thing would be a little harder to.

Han: 00:15:31

Yeah.

Rachel: 00:15:32

To accomplish, I think.

Rachel: 00:15:33

So I.

Rachel: 00:15:34

I found that interesting and.

Rachel: 00:15:35

And I'm knowing that I kind of want to watch like the next episodes with like.

Rachel: 00:15:41

Okay.

Rachel: 00:15:42

Which like one, two, like the six different acts and see how that.

Rachel: 00:15:47

I just, I just want to be like, more see how aware of that.

Rachel: 00:15:50

Yes.

Rachel: 00:15:50

Thank you.

Rachel: 00:15:51

And then there were a couple other articles, a few also from the Wrap and one from TVLine.

Rachel: 00:15:58

And it was.

Rachel: 00:15:59

They're all With Tim Mynier as well.

Rachel: 00:16:02

He was doing a lot of press, understandably because this would have been the mid season finale.

Rachel: 00:16:07

And he's saying a lot of the same things about the episode in each of these.

Rachel: 00:16:12

So I just pulled like a couple little quotes about different.

Rachel: 00:16:15

The different characters.

Rachel: 00:16:16

So in one of them.

Rachel: 00:16:17

And we'll have all of the articles linked so you can read them yourself as well, like usual.

Rachel: 00:16:23

For one of them, Tim Miner said that he wanted to make viewers think Doug was too good to be true.

Rachel: 00:16:30

So he was going for that like magical helper like vibe and kind of the bishop's white Christmas angel thing.

Rachel: 00:16:39

And I hadn't really heard about the bishop's wife, so I looked it up.

Rachel: 00:16:43

I'll talk about that in like my little red string corner, but very much like a Christmas angel type of thing, which is, I think accomplished with just like the way that they introduced him and the camera work and all that stuff is just kind of like, wow, who's that guy?

Rachel: 00:16:57

You know?

Rachel: 00:17:00

And then in referencing Bobby and Athena, there was a question of is the Bobby proposal, are they going too fast?

Rachel: 00:17:10

Is it, you know, there was a question that I think a couple of the interviewers asked where it was like, is it gonna last?

Rachel: 00:17:17

Because, you know, sometimes a holiday proposal doesn't really, you know, go the distance.

Rachel: 00:17:22

And Tim responded, he said, for someone who's gone through the kind of trauma that Bobby's been through, making what might seem like a nuts or rash decision may not be rash at all.

Rachel: 00:17:33

It may be the most sensible decision to make.

Rachel: 00:17:35

But there is an element of it that may be in the moment and I'm not sure it will be smooth sailing.

Rachel: 00:17:40

So that's what he said about that.

Rachel: 00:17:41

Obviously he's like teasing a little bit that it's gonna, that, you know, things aren't gonna be easy because this is a TV show and if things were easy, you wouldn't have a story.

Rachel: 00:17:49

But I really liked that he kind of put emphasis on, you know, it makes sense for the character because Bobby is so like methodical and he thinks things out.

Rachel: 00:18:00

But this also makes sense.

Rachel: 00:18:01

So while it looks from the outside, while it looks kind of like crazy, this is so fast.

Rachel: 00:18:06

It makes sense for him.

Rachel: 00:18:08

And then the last article was a little longer.

Rachel: 00:18:12

This one was from TV Line.

Rachel: 00:18:14

Tim Mynier is talking about the fall finale Twists, right?

Rachel: 00:18:17

And there was actually, before I get into that very briefly, there was actually a quote that he and the interviewer were talking about, Hen Begins, which was the previous episode, right.

Rachel: 00:18:28

And Tim Miner was saying that it was Ryan Murphy's idea for this kind of begins episode, saying that Murphy felt it would be beneficial for the audience to learn about these characters and the cases that broke them.

Rachel: 00:18:41

Every member of our ensemble could be the star of their own show.

Rachel: 00:18:45

And episodes like that prove that.

Rachel: 00:18:46

And he goes on to say, and Aisha is a star, obviously.

Rachel: 00:18:50

So I thought that was interesting too, that that was another one of those, like, collaborative moments that ends up being, you know, cross series sort of thing.

Rachel: 00:19:00

Because we'll get like, Buck Begins over in season five.

Rachel: 00:19:04

But so it's like, and season two and season three.

Rachel: 00:19:07

It's like throughout.

Rachel: 00:19:09

And it's kind of neat that that was like one of, one of those ideas to really get to learn about, like, the characters backstories.

Rachel: 00:19:14

And then Tim mentioned stuff about the Eddie and Shannon reunion, how Shannon, as a mother who walked out on her special needs kid, is not really a likable character to begin with.

Rachel: 00:19:28

So he wanted to show that Eddie, as great as he is, isn't perfect.

Rachel: 00:19:33

They're just human beings trying to do the best they can with the situation they're in.

Rachel: 00:19:37

Eddie and Shannon both have feelings for each other and they both love that little boy.

Rachel: 00:19:41

So I'm crossing my fingers for them.

Rachel: 00:19:43

And I just wanted to say that's an evil thing to say, Mr.

Rachel: 00:19:48

Myn, if you're going with the theory or the thinking that I will, like, die on this crosswalk on.

Rachel: 00:20:00

Right.

Rachel: 00:20:01

About how they already had plans about Shannon and the end of the season in place, which I brought up again, that parallel with the escalator in episode four.

Rachel: 00:20:15

So for him to say, I'm crossing my fingers for them, that is mean, timberly, and so well done, so well handled.

Rachel: 00:20:25

Like, I respect it, but I see what you're doing here.

Sil: 00:20:29

That was evil work.

Rachel: 00:20:32

Because that's more than just saying, like.

Rachel: 00:20:34

And I'm not sure it's going to be smooth sailing for Bobby and Athena.

Rachel: 00:20:38

No, it's like, I'm crossing my fingers for.

Rachel: 00:20:40

For those kids.

Rachel: 00:20:41

Like.

Rachel: 00:20:41

Like, he doesn't hold their fate in his hands.

Sil: 00:20:44

Slight sidebar.

Sil: 00:20:46

Why do you think I don't trust this man?

Han: 00:20:50

I trust him to tell good stories.

Rachel: 00:20:53

Yes.

Rachel: 00:20:54

That's the difference.

Sil: 00:20:55

Okay.

Sil: 00:20:55

Okay.

Han: 00:20:56

Do I trust him to always say what he means?

Han: 00:20:58

No.

Han: 00:20:59

But he's not doing a lot of interviews.

Han: 00:21:00

So that's why, like, I'm not doing.

Rachel: 00:21:02

A lot of interviews.

Han: 00:21:03

Anyone says at face value, because they have to be liars, like, by nature of their jobs, like, they're going out there to promote it, but they can only say so much and they have to use certain language.

Han: 00:21:15

And I'm sure they're PR coached.

Han: 00:21:16

Probably not, Tim, but, like, the actors are definitely, like, PR coached to be like some of them.

Rachel: 00:21:21

Some of them, when they're not in PR jail.

Sil: 00:21:23

Macho heterosexual man.

Han: 00:21:27

Some of them are probably coached on things like, to say that could be, like, good news words or, like, get people or, like, misdirect.

Rachel: 00:21:34

Yes.

Han: 00:21:34

There's lots of things that we could do.

Han: 00:21:36

Probably a whole episode talking about this.

Han: 00:21:38

But, yeah, trust him to tell a good story.

Han: 00:21:40

Trust him to not be evil in an interview.

Rachel: 00:21:44

Absolutely not.

Sil: 00:21:45

No.

Han: 00:21:47

His spiritual son Oliver is absolutely evil in every interview.

Sil: 00:21:51

Oh, yeah.

Rachel: 00:21:51

The bottom line is just like, take everything that anybody says in an interview like a piece of PR with a grain of salt.

Rachel: 00:21:59

Because they do have to inherently just.

Han: 00:22:02

Kind of like, ahead of time if it's post the thing.

Han: 00:22:06

Different.

Rachel: 00:22:06

Exactly.

Rachel: 00:22:07

Exactly.

Rachel: 00:22:08

This is why I'm like.

Rachel: 00:22:09

That's really evil to say.

Rachel: 00:22:11

But just like the next week preview.

Rachel: 00:22:14

Purposefully misleading.

Rachel: 00:22:16

Right.

Rachel: 00:22:16

But it gets you to tune in.

Rachel: 00:22:18

Interviews, if posted beforehand, are the same thing.

Han: 00:22:21

It's all marketing.

Rachel: 00:22:22

Yeah, it's just marketing.

Rachel: 00:22:23

But I just thought that was so funny.

Rachel: 00:22:27

That's so funny.

Han: 00:22:27

Yeah.

Rachel: 00:22:28

Literally.

Han: 00:22:28

What was it, two, three episodes ago?

Han: 00:22:31

She's introduced in an episode where, like, the overarching theme is beating a dead horse.

Rachel: 00:22:36

Yeah, that was.

Rachel: 00:22:37

And episode seven.

Rachel: 00:22:39

So she is like, three episodes.

Han: 00:22:42

She's the only horse at the end of it that continues to be beating.

Han: 00:22:46

So I'm just saying there is no way that they didn't go into her storyline knowing that she was going to die.

Rachel: 00:22:52

Exactly.

Rachel: 00:22:53

And I will.

Rachel: 00:22:54

I will say that I will defend that.

Han: 00:22:56

Tim could tell me to my face that it came to them, like, mid season, and I would.

Han: 00:23:01

I just wouldn't believe him.

Rachel: 00:23:02

No, absolutely not.

Rachel: 00:23:03

There's too much weird foreshadowing before we even meet her, before she's even on screen.

Rachel: 00:23:10

She's haunting the narrative before she even, like, shows up.

Rachel: 00:23:13

Like, come on.

Rachel: 00:23:15

And then for her to show up in Haunted Me.

Sil: 00:23:18

Yeah.

Sil: 00:23:19

Also, we gotta ramp up the angst for Mr.

Sil: 00:23:21

Ryan Guzman.

Sil: 00:23:24

Give us the sad buckeyes.

Han: 00:23:26

Wait, Sad cow eyes.

Rachel: 00:23:28

Sad cow eyes.

Sil: 00:23:30

Sad cow eyes.

Sil: 00:23:31

I was trying to say dear eyes, I think.

Sil: 00:23:33

And then I was just like, buck.

Sil: 00:23:34

And then I was like.

Rachel: 00:23:36

I mean, having a character named Buck kind of ruins the whole, like, you know, equation to Eddie being a deer.

Sil: 00:23:42

Sad moo moo eyes.

Rachel: 00:23:44

We love those.

Rachel: 00:23:45

We love those big, sad moo moo cow eyes.

Han: 00:23:49

Love watching this man Be tortured.

Rachel: 00:23:51

And then last but not least, there's just a little brief mention of Buck and his storyline now that he's outside of that relationship with Abby.

Rachel: 00:24:00

So Tim mentioned that.

Han: 00:24:03

Praise be.

Han: 00:24:04

Praised be.

Rachel: 00:24:06

It's a Christmas miracle.

Rachel: 00:24:08

It was a couple episodes ago.

Han: 00:24:09

It's a Halloween miracle.

Rachel: 00:24:10

It's a Halloween miracle.

Rachel: 00:24:11

Yeah, it's a Halloween.

Han: 00:24:13

Oh my God.

Han: 00:24:13

It's a Halloween Christmas miracle.

Rachel: 00:24:15

Hallowismus.

Han: 00:24:17

No.

Rachel: 00:24:18

Okay, I tried Chris Maween.

Rachel: 00:24:21

Oh, Chris Maween is better.

Sil: 00:24:23

Anyway, moving on.

Rachel: 00:24:25

Sorry.

Rachel: 00:24:25

Okay, so Tim was saying that he thinks Buck didn't really know who he was before.

Rachel: 00:24:31

He felt like he was coming into his own in that relationship.

Rachel: 00:24:35

And Buck will continue to grow and will keep giving him new challenges.

Rachel: 00:24:38

And he does tease for Buck's storyline in the second half with the situation with his sister.

Rachel: 00:24:44

Maddie is going to play heavily into part of his story in the second half.

Rachel: 00:24:47

And I kind of really like that pivot from Buck and relationship woes, like romantic relationship woes more into like Buck and the familial relationship focus, like we've been able to see throughout season two.

Rachel: 00:25:03

But that has.

Rachel: 00:25:04

But it's kind of been a little more on the wayside.

Rachel: 00:25:07

They keep dropping these little crumbs, right.

Rachel: 00:25:11

And it's kind of exciting to see like we're really gonna see like more of the Maddie and Buck relationship and how maybe compared to the past and how it is now and trying to like reestablish that and when big event things.

Rachel: 00:25:27

So that was kind of what I had for the press.

Rachel: 00:25:30

And then I do have a couple things for one of my favorite little segments, My red string corner.

Rachel: 00:25:38

One day I'm just gonna have like something behind me with like, you know, like the.

Han: 00:25:43

It's Charlie Day.

Rachel: 00:25:45

Yeah, Charlie Day from It's Always Sunny with like.

Rachel: 00:25:48

Anyways that just think of me in these moments.

Rachel: 00:25:51

That's.

Rachel: 00:25:51

That's how I want you to think of me when presenting these things.

Rachel: 00:25:55

So the actor who plays Doug, who we get introduced to in this episode, his name is Brian Hallisay.

Rachel: 00:26:03

And funnily enough, he is Jennifer Love Hewitt's real life husband.

Rachel: 00:26:09

And it was just kind of a perfect, you know, coincidence, perfect storm of events because Tim, in some of those articles that I found, he said that he actually gave Brian Hallisay his first job in network television like 10 years prior on Fox's the Inside, which was a procedural about a serial killer unit of the FBI.

Rachel: 00:26:35

So I'm thinking probably along the same vein as like Criminal Minds.

Rachel: 00:26:39

And he said it just worked out so perfectly.

Rachel: 00:26:44

It just so happened that he is married to Jennifer Love Hewitt.

Rachel: 00:26:47

It just worked out very well, I guess, when they were auditioning and.

Rachel: 00:26:51

And we'll also see that.

Rachel: 00:26:53

I think I've seen an article previously and we'll link back to it when we get to, like, the actual episodes.

Rachel: 00:27:00

But I'm pretty sure Jennifer Love Hewitt has also said that with the kind of storyline that they were giving Maddie and Doug, it was important for her to feel comfortable with the person playing Doug, which, like, totally understandable because they do a lot of very intense work.

Rachel: 00:27:18

So who better than someone you are married to?

Rachel: 00:27:22

And you have that inherent trust?

Rachel: 00:27:25

So I love that.

Rachel: 00:27:26

And Tim also said that one of the reasons that he thought about Brian Hallisay for this role is he has a certain masculine charm, but he can also be incredibly creepy.

Rachel: 00:27:38

And I was like, wow, what a compliment that is.

Rachel: 00:27:43

That is high praise from Tim Mynier.

Rachel: 00:27:45

Right?

Sil: 00:27:46

Timberlee.

Sil: 00:27:47

Timberlee was on.

Sil: 00:27:48

He was on a roll.

Han: 00:27:50

I would use those exact words to describe.

Han: 00:27:52

Describe Ben Barnes, too.

Han: 00:27:53

Just side note.

Rachel: 00:27:54

Yes.

Han: 00:27:54

Ooh.

Sil: 00:27:55

Huh?

Han: 00:27:56

It's something in their eyes.

Rachel: 00:27:57

It's something in the eyes.

Rachel: 00:27:59

I don't.

Rachel: 00:28:00

But.

Rachel: 00:28:00

But he doesn't have, like, super dark, dark, dark, dark Ben Barnes demon eyes.

Rachel: 00:28:04

No, it's.

Han: 00:28:05

It is whole eyes.

Rachel: 00:28:07

It is some sort of, like.

Rachel: 00:28:09

I don't know, the.

Rachel: 00:28:10

The light in their eyes is, like, different.

Rachel: 00:28:14

I don't know how to describe it, but.

Rachel: 00:28:16

So that's how.

Rachel: 00:28:18

That's how that worked out.

Rachel: 00:28:19

So the fake name that Doug gives when he meets Chimney in the Christmas tree lot is Jason Bailey.

Rachel: 00:28:27

And I don't know about the Jason part, but George Bailey is the main character in It's a Wonderful Life.

Rachel: 00:28:34

So I thought that was probably a little nod, a little, like, tip of the cap to that.

Rachel: 00:28:41

And for anyone.

Rachel: 00:28:43

onderful Life is a movie from: 1946

Rachel: 00:28:50

And it's about a man who has given up his personal dreams in order to help others in his community.

Rachel: 00:28:55

And he's, you know, at his wit's end.

Rachel: 00:28:58

He's about to end it all, basically, when an angel shows up and he shows.

Rachel: 00:29:04

The angel shows George Bailey the lives that he's touched and what the world would look like if he hadn't existed.

Rachel: 00:29:11

That's kind of the general overview of that.

Rachel: 00:29:15

And then I think in one of the other articles that I did mention, when Tim was talking about introducing Doug as, like, this Christmas angel and he mentioned The Bishop's Wife.

Rachel: 00:29:28

And that's a movie from: 1947

Rachel: 00:29:30

So a year later.

Rachel: 00:29:32

And that's about an angel who helps a bishop with his problems.

Rachel: 00:29:36

But the angel starts falling in love with the bishop's wife.

Rachel: 00:29:40

And when the wife doesn't really understand what's going on with like this guy being an actual angel, she tells him it's time to leave and all memory of him is erased and everything kind of like goes back to normal.

Rachel: 00:29:54

So I haven't seen that one personally.

Rachel: 00:29:56

So that was just kind of like a little summary from Wikipedia that I paraphrased.

Rachel: 00:30:01

But I just thought that was kind of interesting that both of these movies.

Rachel: 00:30:07

And we know Tim is a classic, specifically classic horror movie fan, but I think he's just.

Rachel: 00:30:14

I think he's just a real movie cinema girly.

Rachel: 00:30:18

Anyways, because this is like very classic.

Rachel: 00:30:21

Classic.

Rachel: 00:30:23

Yeah, this is just like a very classic kind of movie.

Rachel: 00:30:27

But they both have this like angel helping kind of plot device.

Rachel: 00:30:33

And specifically with the bishop's wife, it's about this guy, this bishop is getting jealous that this guy who happens to be an angel is like moving in on his wife and stuff like that.

Rachel: 00:30:43

And again, I haven't seen the movie, but I feel like there are some parallels to be drawn there between like how Doug is moving and chimney and Maddie being a thing and Doug's obvious like unhingedness and jealousy and stuff.

Rachel: 00:30:59

So I thought that was just something to point out.

Han: 00:31:02

I have a thing.

Han: 00:31:03

I just shout out.

Han: 00:31:04

User Fido555.

Han: 00:31:06

They said that it's very appropriate that the soldier surprised his wife and daughter during a performance of the song I'll Be Home for Christmas because it was written in World War II for soldiers who couldn't come home.

Rachel: 00:31:15

I didn't know that.

Rachel: 00:31:17

Wow.

Han: 00:31:17

So fun fact.

Rachel: 00:31:19

That's kind of perfect.

Han: 00:31:20

Yeah.

Rachel: 00:31:21

There were a lot of Christmas songs in this episode.

Rachel: 00:31:24

They.

Rachel: 00:31:25

They use like all of the Christmas songs.

Han: 00:31:27

I know.

Han: 00:31:27

And that's why, because, you know, I'm normally all over the songs.

Han: 00:31:29

But I was like, they're Christmas songs.

Han: 00:31:30

They're self explanatory.

Han: 00:31:32

I don't need to be.

Rachel: 00:31:33

And there were so many of them.

Han: 00:31:35

There were so many.

Han: 00:31:36

Yeah.

Rachel: 00:31:36

And they were also like the very.

Rachel: 00:31:38

Because it wasn't really like the modern Christmas stuff.

Rachel: 00:31:42

It was the very like kind of classic.

Han: 00:31:43

I saw the classic.

Han: 00:31:44

Yeah.

Han: 00:31:45

Actually, well, now that I was like, oh, there's nothing to really explain.

Han: 00:31:48

I think Silent Night is playing during that Maddie flashback.

Han: 00:31:53

Oh.

Han: 00:31:54

Which is very interesting because those, those lyrics are about it being, like, silent, quiet, peaceful.

Han: 00:32:01

All is calm, all is bright.

Han: 00:32:03

You know what I mean?

Rachel: 00:32:04

Yeah.

Rachel: 00:32:05

And then you get that, like, very.

Han: 00:32:07

The juxtaposition of that against the absolute, like, devastation and the chaos and abuse there.

Rachel: 00:32:15

Yeah.

Sil: 00:32:15

Didn't she also say that that was the night that she decided she needed to leave?

Sil: 00:32:22

So that's kind of like.

Han: 00:32:24

So it is kind of hopeful.

Han: 00:32:25

Yeah, a little bit.

Han: 00:32:26

Yeah.

Han: 00:32:26

Yeah.

Rachel: 00:32:27

It's always darkest before the dawn sort of thing.

Sil: 00:32:30

Also, for those of you who are listening, please tell us if you knew before or after the episode that that was actually Jennifer Love Hewitt's actual husband.

Rachel: 00:32:45

Because I knew afterwards.

Sil: 00:32:47

I knew afterwards, and every time I'm on the timeline and some.

Sil: 00:32:52

Someone that's new to 911 is watching that episode, they're like, wait, Doug was her actual husband?

Rachel: 00:32:58

What?

Sil: 00:33:00

It's just funny.

Rachel: 00:33:01

Yeah.

Sil: 00:33:02

When did you find out?

Han: 00:33:04

Also, did you see that.

Han: 00:33:05

That cliffhanger coming at the end?

Han: 00:33:07

Because I knew he was sus.

Han: 00:33:08

I just didn't know what flavor of sus.

Han: 00:33:11

And I think I was just distracted by everything else happening, and I shouldn't.

Han: 00:33:15

They lulled me into a false sense of security.

Han: 00:33:17

So it was very much a gasp moment for me, which I enjoy when that happens.

Rachel: 00:33:21

Mm.

Rachel: 00:33:22

I do love.

Rachel: 00:33:23

I do love being just totally like, yeah.

Han: 00:33:26

Oh, my God.

Rachel: 00:33:27

That's a great moment.

Rachel: 00:33:29

Because that means it's good storytelling, even if you have, like, suspicions or whatever.

Sil: 00:33:35

Everything in my head is just like, I don't like this.

Sil: 00:33:37

I don't like it.

Sil: 00:33:39

I don't like it.

Sil: 00:33:41

To quote Chris Evans.

Rachel: 00:33:44

At the end.

Han: 00:33:45

Of the episode, TJ was like, so I just shouldn't trust anyone who's nice ever, because they're trying to kill you.

Han: 00:33:52

It's like, yeah, that's the lesson.

Han: 00:33:53

That's the exact lesson.

Han: 00:33:56

Oh, he was joking, obviously.

Rachel: 00:33:59

I hope so.

Rachel: 00:33:59

I could never walk through life like that.

Rachel: 00:34:02

I'm way too optimistic.

Han: 00:34:04

No, he is.

Han: 00:34:05

Also, make everyone friend.

Sil: 00:34:08

God, I wish I could do that.

Han: 00:34:11

I'm good.

Rachel: 00:34:12

That's why you have me.

Han: 00:34:13

I know.

Han: 00:34:15

Why would I need to make friends when I have people who will do it for me?

Rachel: 00:34:20

It's one of my favorite things to do.

Rachel: 00:34:22

Anyway, so that's interesting stuff.

Rachel: 00:34:25

Yeah.

Rachel: 00:34:26

I would love to hear, like, what?

Rachel: 00:34:27

People's actual reaction in watching live or anyone's reactions, you know, even if you're late to it, like us, it's fun.

Han: 00:34:35

Or if you had, like, a wild theory of what he was before you figured it out.

Sil: 00:34:39

Oh, please tell us.

Sil: 00:34:40

Those would be fun.

Han: 00:34:41

Tj, his first idea, he got it right on the third try.

Han: 00:34:46

The first guess was, is that because he knows Shannon dies.

Han: 00:34:49

He was like, is that the man who kills Eddie's wife?

Han: 00:34:56

And then after I laughed that, he was like, are you putting that in the podcast?

Han: 00:35:00

And I was like, yes, absolutely.

Rachel: 00:35:02

Anything he says is liable to use.

Rachel: 00:35:22

Shall we move into our talking about our episode themes?

Han: 00:35:27

Yeah.

Rachel: 00:35:28

All right.

Han: 00:35:29

And I'll start with what I think was the overarching theme of the episode, which is Home for Christmas.

Han: 00:35:36

I know that's shocking, surprising, but, you know, they.

Han: 00:35:39

They show it in a lot of different ways.

Han: 00:35:41

I think that, you know, you have Michael saying, home isn't a place, it's a people shout out for Ragnarok.

Han: 00:35:53

Actually, I don't know the timeline on what.

Han: 00:35:55

Whatever.

Han: 00:35:58

So you have.

Rachel: 00:35:58

Would have been out.

Sil: 00:35:59

It would have been out.

Rachel: 00:36:00

I think it's after.

Han: 00:36:02

So he's just ripping.

Han: 00:36:03

He's just one of us.

Han: 00:36:04

He's giving life advice via Marvel quotes.

Han: 00:36:07

Yeah.

Han: 00:36:08

Home for Christmas.

Han: 00:36:08

We see it in every.

Han: 00:36:10

We see it in every emergency.

Han: 00:36:12

We see it in every character, whether they are just home or if they're fighting to get there or if they're trying to figure out where home is.

Han: 00:36:22

I think we see that with pretty much everyone.

Han: 00:36:25

And then we also have reunions, multiple reunions as a theme under Home for Christmas, because a lot of.

Rachel: 00:36:32

A lot of, like, coming homes, but it's also just like, in general, like, some people coming together.

Rachel: 00:36:39

And it's also a little bit because this is Mary Xmas, like, ex.

Rachel: 00:36:47

So it's kind of like the impending reunion of Maddie and Doug.

Rachel: 00:36:52

Right.

Han: 00:36:53

He had to put some horror movie into the Christmas episode.

Rachel: 00:36:57

It's Tim.

Han: 00:36:58

He couldn't let it slide.

Rachel: 00:37:01

It's.

Rachel: 00:37:01

Are we surprised?

Han: 00:37:03

It would have been too wholesome.

Han: 00:37:07

Oh, my God.

Rachel: 00:37:08

Nothing.

Rachel: 00:37:09

Nothing that references any horror movies surprises me anymore in the show because it's just.

Rachel: 00:37:14

That's just the Tim fluence should be.

Han: 00:37:18

Shocking when it's not there, to be honest.

Rachel: 00:37:20

Exactly.

Sil: 00:37:21

You also got.

Sil: 00:37:22

You also have Shannon and Eddie and doing whatever it is that they're doing.

Han: 00:37:27

They're doing something.

Rachel: 00:37:29

They're.

Rachel: 00:37:29

They're doing.

Rachel: 00:37:30

They're doing something.

Han: 00:37:31

They're doing it.

Rachel: 00:37:33

We'll get to that.

Rachel: 00:37:36

There's also, in that same vein, there's a lot of emphasis on relationships, specifically with relationship milestones or the building blocks of relationships.

Rachel: 00:37:49

And then with that, I think, comes this element of commitment and whether someone is feeling ready to commit or if they're not necessarily a commitment phobe per se, but afraid of that commitment and what that.

Rachel: 00:38:07

And, like, the big things that it means.

Rachel: 00:38:11

So that can kind of lead into this indecision and panicking, which I think I know you wanted to talk about as well.

Rachel: 00:38:20

Outside of relationship stuff too, right?

Han: 00:38:22

Well, yeah, I just wanted to say, like, that is indecision and panic.

Han: 00:38:25

Definitely a theme.

Han: 00:38:26

And I think just because this is like a subsection of relationships, I'm not looking at Maddie and Doug anymore as a relationship.

Han: 00:38:35

Like, she left him.

Han: 00:38:37

He is now a stalker.

Han: 00:38:39

Like, he.

Han: 00:38:39

You know what I mean?

Han: 00:38:40

Like, that's not a relationship.

Han: 00:38:42

That's a crime.

Han: 00:38:46

So I just want to say that, like, there is indecision and panic outside side of relationship.

Han: 00:38:52

It's trauma born from a relationship, I guess.

Han: 00:38:57

But I don't think.

Han: 00:38:58

I don't think her indecision and panic falls under, like, relationship milestones and building blocks.

Han: 00:39:05

It's.

Rachel: 00:39:05

You mean her relation.

Rachel: 00:39:06

Her panic about Christmas.

Rachel: 00:39:10

Like, celebrating Christmas.

Rachel: 00:39:11

Okay, I got you now.

Rachel: 00:39:13

And then there's also, like, this element of.

Rachel: 00:39:16

Again, a lot of it.

Rachel: 00:39:18

A lot of it revolves around some sort of relationship thing, right?

Rachel: 00:39:23

So there's.

Rachel: 00:39:24

Communication is a very big thing.

Rachel: 00:39:26

And we see in pretty much for almost every, like, character there is.

Rachel: 00:39:35

There's, like, a character is being presented with some sort of surprise, right?

Rachel: 00:39:41

Like, it doesn't necessarily have to be, like, a surprise.

Rachel: 00:39:44

Oh, shoot.

Rachel: 00:39:48

Hello, it's me.

Rachel: 00:39:50

Okay, I'm back.

Rachel: 00:39:53

So it doesn't necessarily have to be like a surprise, like a gift, but it could be surprise of information as well.

Rachel: 00:40:01

And I think we.

Rachel: 00:40:03

And I'll kind of point them out, because as we get.

Rachel: 00:40:06

As we talk about the characters, because I think.

Rachel: 00:40:09

I think that would just be easier.

Rachel: 00:40:11

But there's a lot of, you know, just kind of, oh, this is something that another character hasn't necessarily thought about or had assumed about someone else and all that stuff.

Rachel: 00:40:24

So that kind of goes with that communication, which connects to, you know, our theme of relationships and, like, being on the same page, which we have been talking about I think, since, like, season one, being on the same page.

Rachel: 00:40:40

So that's.

Rachel: 00:40:41

That was an interesting, like.

Rachel: 00:40:43

Like a Christmas surprise.

Rachel: 00:40:44

But they're not all, like, good surprises, and they're kind of just, like, assumptive of many, many a thing.

Rachel: 00:40:53

So.

Han: 00:40:56

I think the last thing for me that I noticed is performing.

Han: 00:41:02

And I'm just not going to talk about that until later because I can't say anything without getting into it.

Rachel: 00:41:15

Put a pin in that theme.

Rachel: 00:41:17

We'll get to it.

Rachel: 00:41:18

Probably where at the end in Slow Burn.

Han: 00:41:24

Or Yeah, I think a little bit in Eddie's arc and then also in.

Han: 00:41:28

And slow burn.

Han: 00:41:29

Yeah.

Rachel: 00:41:30

Cool.

Rachel: 00:41:30

So just keep that.

Han: 00:41:32

Keep that in mind.

Han: 00:41:33

Just keep that percolating up there.

Sil: 00:41:34

Oh, perfect.

Rachel: 00:41:39

Percolate.

Rachel: 00:41:41

I love that word.

Han: 00:41:44

Anyways, sorry, Booby Bobby.

Han: 00:41:49

Talking about mom and Dad, a.

Han: 00:41:52

I.

Rachel: 00:41:52

Love when we start, like, character arcs with, like, some Bobby and Athena.

Rachel: 00:42:00

They're just.

Sil: 00:42:02

It's the number one relationship until Chim and Maddie get together.

Sil: 00:42:07

But I mean.

Han: 00:42:10

I still think it's number one in the sense that, like, well, they're top build and they're executive producers, but also they're literally mom and dad.

Han: 00:42:19

You know what I mean?

Han: 00:42:20

I feel like everyone looks up to them in their relationship, so they are.

Rachel: 00:42:27

Very much like the heart of like.

Han: 00:42:32

Like their social group family.

Rachel: 00:42:35

Yeah.

Rachel: 00:42:36

Because, like, we see at the end, like, everybody comes over to their.

Rachel: 00:42:39

Or Athena's house, but maybe their house now.

Rachel: 00:42:41

I don't know.

Rachel: 00:42:43

And it's just like.

Rachel: 00:42:45

It's just like, really heartwarming to see.

Rachel: 00:42:48

And I mean.

Rachel: 00:42:49

Yeah, that's where everybody, like, gathers.

Rachel: 00:42:53

That's for like, all of their non station.

Han: 00:42:57

Yeah.

Han: 00:43:00

You know, with the extended family.

Rachel: 00:43:02

Yeah.

Rachel: 00:43:03

I love them.

Han: 00:43:07

So.

Han: 00:43:09

Mr.

Han: 00:43:09

Nash.

Sil: 00:43:13

Sorry, is that who we want to start with?

Han: 00:43:17

I think so.

Rachel: 00:43:21

Yeah.

Han: 00:43:22

Were we not talking about mom and dad?

Sil: 00:43:24

Oh, we are talking about mom and Dad.

Sil: 00:43:25

I thought.

Sil: 00:43:26

I thought we wanted to start with Mom.

Han: 00:43:28

I mean, we can't.

Han: 00:43:29

Well, they're.

Han: 00:43:30

They're very much talking about together because they're not.

Rachel: 00:43:34

Their.

Rachel: 00:43:35

Their arc is very, like.

Rachel: 00:43:37

No, no, no.

Sil: 00:43:38

That's not what I meant, but it's fine.

Sil: 00:43:41

Continue.

Han: 00:43:46

I don't remember what I was going to say.

Rachel: 00:43:50

Mr.

Rachel: 00:43:51

Nash.

Rachel: 00:43:53

Mr.

Rachel: 00:43:54

Nash, if you're nasty, I'm kidding.

Han: 00:43:56

Oh, my God.

Rachel: 00:43:57

I never said that.

Rachel: 00:43:58

I hated it the moment it came out of my mouth.

Han: 00:44:01

I can just see him saying that to Athena in one of their world.

Rachel: 00:44:10

That's mom and dad.

Sil: 00:44:13

No, I don't need to see that or hear that.

Rachel: 00:44:18

No.

Rachel: 00:44:19

Oh, God.

Sil: 00:44:20

I am Buck.

Rachel: 00:44:23

May.

Sil: 00:44:25

Oh, God.

Sil: 00:44:27

Oh, my God.

Han: 00:44:28

Really scarred for life.

Rachel: 00:44:29

Oh, my God.

Han: 00:44:30

But yeah, so.

Han: 00:44:33

So Bobby goes from the beginning of this episode being like on cloud nine, being so extremely happy.

Han: 00:44:41

And then a surprise.

Han: 00:44:47

Mom comes out of left field and is like, we should live together.

Han: 00:44:51

And then he literally just spirals for.

Rachel: 00:44:55

Most of the episode.

Han: 00:44:56

8% of the rest of the episode.

Rachel: 00:44:58

Yeah, he.

Rachel: 00:44:59

He really was like kind of, you know, the fight.

Rachel: 00:45:05

Fight or flight or freeze.

Rachel: 00:45:07

He really just kind of like the.

Han: 00:45:10

First time we've seen him, like, actually panic.

Rachel: 00:45:12

Yeah, I.

Rachel: 00:45:16

He's usually so, like, cool, calm, collected.

Rachel: 00:45:19

He's got everything together except for, like, I mean, besides his sobriety thing from, like.

Rachel: 00:45:26

Like season one and when they were dosed.

Rachel: 00:45:28

But this is.

Rachel: 00:45:29

He wasn't panicking in those times.

Rachel: 00:45:35

Yeah.

Rachel: 00:45:35

This is the first time, like, he really, truly freezes.

Rachel: 00:45:39

And I think it's because of the surprise.

Rachel: 00:45:43

Like, he just was not expecting that.

Rachel: 00:45:45

And this is one of those things where I was.

Rachel: 00:45:48

Where I was talking about with, like, surprises and communication.

Rachel: 00:45:50

Because Athena doesn't, like, she hasn't brought this up to him before.

Rachel: 00:45:55

She just kind of, like, springs it on him and he's unprepared for that thought possibility.

Rachel: 00:46:13

Yeah.

Han: 00:46:14

I don't know if he had thought.

Rachel: 00:46:16

About it.

Han: 00:46:19

Because I think he's, like, very much happy in the bubble that they're in.

Han: 00:46:23

And I think where we find him in his journey here, you know, like, looking back a couple episodes when he was very much like, trying to stand on the outskirts of the family.

Han: 00:46:34

Right.

Han: 00:46:35

And so he finally is getting more involved in the family.

Han: 00:46:40

But, like, I don't think he's thought past, like, where they are now.

Han: 00:46:46

He's very even.

Han: 00:46:47

He still doesn't think he deserves, like, what he's got right now.

Rachel: 00:46:50

No, I think he is very much, like, in his relationship with Athena, he is very much, like, living in the present.

Han: 00:46:59

Get it?

Rachel: 00:47:00

Because Christmas.

Rachel: 00:47:04

I'm sorry.

Rachel: 00:47:05

I'm not sorry.

Rachel: 00:47:06

But he.

Rachel: 00:47:07

I think he does.

Han: 00:47:10

Took Sil the fuck out.

Han: 00:47:13

Yes.

Sil: 00:47:15

No.

Rachel: 00:47:15

Anytime when I can.

Rachel: 00:47:17

Anytime when I can take Sil out like that.

Rachel: 00:47:20

Oh.

Han: 00:47:20

Shook her head for a solid minute and then just said no.

Rachel: 00:47:23

Yep.

Rachel: 00:47:25

Pat on my back.

Rachel: 00:47:27

Anyways, I think.

Rachel: 00:47:28

I think.

Rachel: 00:47:30

I think Bobby is very much, like, in the present moment with Athena.

Rachel: 00:47:34

As in, like, he isn't looking backwards at nearly as much as, like, he.

Rachel: 00:47:40

Because for so much of season one, he was living in the past.

Rachel: 00:47:44

Right.

Rachel: 00:47:45

Or he was, shall we say, stuck and not moving forward.

Rachel: 00:47:49

I guess we could kind of say in with this, like, there's a little bit of a stuckness.

Rachel: 00:47:58

Stickness.

Rachel: 00:47:59

Stick Stickiness.

Rachel: 00:48:02

Because he's not, like, he's so much for me having the brain cell.

Rachel: 00:48:08

He's not moving forward, but he's not moving backward.

Rachel: 00:48:11

He's just kind of, like, there and not really moving.

Rachel: 00:48:17

Going anywhere.

Rachel: 00:48:18

Right.

Rachel: 00:48:19

So I.

Rachel: 00:48:23

Where was I going with this?

Sil: 00:48:28

Well, I think it's interesting.

Sil: 00:48:31

I think it's interesting, like, in comparison to where we were with Athena in those, like, beginning episodes where she kind of just didn't want to be.

Sil: 00:48:41

She wanted to live in A bubble.

Rachel: 00:48:43

Yeah.

Sil: 00:48:44

Within their relationship.

Sil: 00:48:46

And Bobby wanted to take her out and show her off and, like, not hide and be secretive.

Sil: 00:48:52

Now it's like, oh, how the tables have turned.

Rachel: 00:48:55

Kind of.

Rachel: 00:48:56

Yeah.

Rachel: 00:48:56

I didn't even pick.

Han: 00:48:58

I didn't think of that either.

Rachel: 00:48:59

I didn't pick up.

Rachel: 00:48:59

You're our Athena whisperer.

Rachel: 00:49:01

So.

Han: 00:49:03

You are.

Sil: 00:49:04

It's like, it's like he got her to move forward, but now it's like now he's the one stuck.

Sil: 00:49:10

Because, I mean, yeah, like, kind of what you guys said.

Sil: 00:49:13

He doesn't think he deserves it.

Sil: 00:49:16

And it's like he has something that he doesn't want to.

Sil: 00:49:20

Like, like, oh, lose, lose.

Sil: 00:49:24

And like, I don't know.

Sil: 00:49:27

I, I.

Sil: 00:49:27

These are, I guess, big steps.

Sil: 00:49:29

Although, like, I don't know when, when you really think about that.

Sil: 00:49:36

Because he, again, he wanted to, like, be publicly out in their relationship.

Sil: 00:49:43

Weird wording choice that I just used there.

Sil: 00:49:52

He wanted their relationship more public.

Han: 00:49:55

These are the only straight people on the show.

Han: 00:49:57

I know.

Han: 00:50:01

They won't.

Rachel: 00:50:06

The only straight people who have rights.

Sil: 00:50:09

Who want to come out.

Han: 00:50:15

Close enough.

Rachel: 00:50:16

Welcome back to college.

Sil: 00:50:23

Oh.

Rachel: 00:50:26

We'Re back in the building again.

Sil: 00:50:30

Oh, to our listeners, if you don't know about Straight Gate, Misha Collins.

Han: 00:50:35

Oh, yeah, please, Supernatural.

Han: 00:50:38

You should at least go to Misha Collins for just, like, a what the fuck time.

Rachel: 00:50:48

That is the probably the most accurate description of that.

Han: 00:50:53

You'll pretty much never know what's going on.

Han: 00:50:55

No, because he doesn't.

Rachel: 00:50:58

Yeah.

Sil: 00:51:03

If you want a jump scare, because you never know what that man is going to tweet or do.

Han: 00:51:13

But yeah, no, if you want to entertain yourself, find like a Tumblr post or something.

Han: 00:51:18

Actually, just look up Straight Gate on Tumblr.

Sil: 00:51:23

Misha Collins.

Sil: 00:51:26

We're about to get a cease and desist.

Rachel: 00:51:30

No, he'd probably be like, let me on the show.

Sil: 00:51:35

Hey, why not?

Han: 00:51:36

Why do you have a podcast about this and not me?

Sil: 00:51:40

I'm not the one who had to be told by Warner Brothers to act.

Rachel: 00:51:48

I can't believe that's real.

Rachel: 00:51:53

The one time.

Rachel: 00:51:54

Warner Bros.

Rachel: 00:51:55

The one time.

Rachel: 00:51:57

Come on.

Han: 00:51:59

Could you just, like, pretend you're gay for the clicks, you know?

Han: 00:52:06

No, I speak my truth.

Han: 00:52:10

I'm unfortunately straight.

Han: 00:52:12

You gotta look up that fucking wording because it was.

Rachel: 00:52:17

Oh, God.

Han: 00:52:18

Anyway, that man doesn't think before he speaks.

Rachel: 00:52:21

No.

Han: 00:52:22

And it gets into a lot of trouble.

Rachel: 00:52:25

If you want someone more chaotic than Oliver Stark, Misha Collins is your guy.

Rachel: 00:52:31

In a different way.

Han: 00:52:32

Yeah, well, because Oliver has restraint between, like, where he actually does the thing.

Rachel: 00:52:39

He.

Rachel: 00:52:40

He also does have a filter.

Sil: 00:52:42

Well.

Han: 00:52:43

And he's very private where Misha's just like.

Han: 00:52:45

I literally.

Han: 00:52:46

He does a show where he just talks about his childhood trauma.

Rachel: 00:52:52

It's healing, it's good.

Han: 00:52:55

But yeah, it's like night and day with, like, the Internet presence.

Han: 00:53:00

But it's kind of giving.

Han: 00:53:02

It's kind of giving.

Han: 00:53:03

Like, when we're like, what is Ryan Guzman's digital footprint?

Han: 00:53:09

Oh, yeah, it's kind of giving that.

Rachel: 00:53:13

Yeah.

Han: 00:53:13

Anyway, check out Misha Collins endorsement.

Han: 00:53:17

You should give us money for that.

Han: 00:53:21

Thanks.

Rachel: 00:53:24

Just have Lauren show him this clip.

Han: 00:53:31

This clip where we're like, affectionately negging him.

Rachel: 00:53:37

Yeah.

Rachel: 00:53:38

Love it.

Han: 00:53:39

He will actually.

Rachel: 00:53:40

He will actually.

Han: 00:53:41

Bullying is also his love language.

Rachel: 00:53:47

No, seriously.

Rachel: 00:53:48

Lauren would show this to him too.

Han: 00:53:49

Oh, my God.

Rachel: 00:53:50

He would just be like, look at my idiot friends.

Han: 00:53:54

Give them money.

Han: 00:53:57

Promote their podcast.

Rachel: 00:53:59

It's not about Supernatural at all, but.

Sil: 00:54:02

I mean, it kind of is at.

Han: 00:54:04

Least once an episode.

Sil: 00:54:06

Yeah, it has its daily mention on average.

Han: 00:54:11

Speaking of.

Han: 00:54:11

And then we should move on.

Han: 00:54:13

Poorly drawn.

Han: 00:54:16

Did the drawing of that behind the scenes photography, the really, really cute one from earlier.

Han: 00:54:21

And the captions.

Han: 00:54:22

Well, well, well.

Han: 00:54:23

And I really want to reply, it's not in parentheses Destiel.

Han: 00:54:29

But I don't know if they go.

Sil: 00:54:30

There.

Han: 00:54:33

Because I can't hear.

Han: 00:54:34

Well, well, well.

Han: 00:54:35

And then not immediately go, it's Destiel.

Han: 00:54:39

That's like the natural conclusion of that sentence.

Han: 00:54:43

It's not Destiel anyway.

Han: 00:54:47

Right.

Rachel: 00:54:47

I'm not sure I understood that reference.

Han: 00:54:50

You don't know the.

Sil: 00:54:50

Whoa, whoa.

Han: 00:54:50

Well, it's Destiel.

Rachel: 00:54:53

No.

Sil: 00:54:57

I'm gonna say I don't know that reference either.

Sil: 00:55:01

Oh, no.

Rachel: 00:55:03

Clicky clacky, clicky clack.

Han: 00:55:08

I, like, don't even know where it originated from.

Han: 00:55:13

I'll ask Lauren and I'll get back to you.

Rachel: 00:55:16

Sounds good.

Han: 00:55:17

She'll know.

Han: 00:55:18

She's like a Supernatural wiki just in her brain.

Sil: 00:55:24

Anyway, like I was originally saying before I.

Sil: 00:55:30

Before I made a stew rail, because I was.

Sil: 00:55:33

That was all me.

Sil: 00:55:33

Yes.

Sil: 00:55:34

Uhhuh.

Sil: 00:55:38

Right.

Sil: 00:55:38

So in comparison to.

Sil: 00:55:42

To those first couple of episodes, like Bobby again, wanting their relationship to be out in public and not be so in their bubble.

Sil: 00:55:54

Like, it's.

Sil: 00:55:55

It's kind of like.

Sil: 00:55:56

It was just kind of weird.

Sil: 00:55:58

I understand that he.

Sil: 00:56:00

I understand that he didn't.

Sil: 00:56:02

You know, he's.

Sil: 00:56:03

He's in a place where he doesn't want to lose this relationship that's very important to him and that it's just.

Sil: 00:56:12

I guess what I'm trying To say is it's just a jarring, like, comparison from where he was before to where he is now, where.

Sil: 00:56:23

Where he has his reservations.

Sil: 00:56:25

Like, Athena had her reservations.

Sil: 00:56:29

So the whole moving in, like, I thought you would think.

Sil: 00:56:33

I.

Sil: 00:56:34

I think you would think that he'd be like, yeah, you know what?

Sil: 00:56:37

Okay.

Sil: 00:56:37

Because that's a natural progression.

Rachel: 00:56:40

Right.

Han: 00:56:42

Normally a longer timeline.

Han: 00:56:44

I can't throw stones there, but normally I hear on the streets that it's a longer timeline to move in.

Han: 00:56:51

Yeah, well, they're also like.

Han: 00:56:53

Especially when there are children involved.

Rachel: 00:56:55

Yeah, but it's.

Rachel: 00:56:56

It's also like they are older, so.

Han: 00:56:59

Oh, I know.

Rachel: 00:57:00

Like, they.

Sil: 00:57:03

I guess what I'm saying is, like, first it's.

Sil: 00:57:06

It's really like you guys are dating, then you move in, then, you know, I know you're the proposal part, but, yeah, it's.

Sil: 00:57:13

In terms of the length of a relationship, when there are kids involved, usually that is longer.

Han: 00:57:17

Yeah, but it was the natural progression.

Han: 00:57:21

And I think you're bringing up a good point that I didn't even think of, so.

Han: 00:57:24

Which is like, this is such a.

Han: 00:57:27

Like 180 from where she was at the beginning of the season.

Han: 00:57:31

So it seems like once she got over those hurdles, she was just like, well, this is it.

Han: 00:57:35

Like, I'm in.

Han: 00:57:37

So, you know, and she just loves him so much, and she always is happier when he's there and he's part of her family.

Han: 00:57:44

So, yeah, of course.

Han: 00:57:44

She's like, it would be great if you just didn't have to leave.

Han: 00:57:48

Like, why are we doing that?

Han: 00:57:50

That's stupid.

Rachel: 00:57:51

That was.

Rachel: 00:57:52

That was just, like, so sweet.

Rachel: 00:57:54

And I love what she said to Michael about how, you know, when he's around, I'm joyful.

Rachel: 00:58:01

When he's not, I'm lonely.

Rachel: 00:58:03

And I just.

Rachel: 00:58:03

It was just like, that's so.

Rachel: 00:58:07

Just like what you should kind of want in a relationship or a partnership.

Rachel: 00:58:13

You want someone who makes you, like, the best and happiest version of yourself when you're around them and when you're with them and just to like.

Rachel: 00:58:26

And.

Rachel: 00:58:26

And she said when she's not around him, she's lonely.

Rachel: 00:58:30

Meaning, like, he's.

Rachel: 00:58:31

He brings the sunshine into her life a little bit, but also, like, we've been talking about how loneliness is, like, a season theme that we see, so like, also kind of staving off that loneliness.

Rachel: 00:58:43

And I think.

Rachel: 00:58:45

I don't think that Bobby doesn't feel that way.

Rachel: 00:58:48

I think he very much does.

Rachel: 00:58:50

And we see with the.

Rachel: 00:58:52

With the proposal that he does feel that way.

Rachel: 00:58:54

I think he was just shocked about.

Han: 00:58:58

The.

Rachel: 00:59:01

Proposal of her inviting him to move in.

Rachel: 00:59:04

And again, that, like, he's racked still.

Han: 00:59:08

Yeah.

Rachel: 00:59:09

With this guilt that, like, he's not sure that he is deserving, which makes him.

Rachel: 00:59:16

Which makes him question whether it's like, if this is something that he sees a future in.

Rachel: 00:59:24

Because up until, like, fairly recently, he didn't see a future at all.

Han: 00:59:29

Yeah.

Han: 00:59:30

Well, I also think it's definitely partly, like, the deserving thing, but I think, like, mostly, like, we see in that talk he has with Hen where he's like, I'm terrified.

Han: 00:59:41

And I really think it's because he's, you know, built this family for himself, and he is.

Han: 00:59:47

He is scared to get even closer, to get more attached, because that seems like moving in seems like, okay, this is a per.

Han: 00:59:56

Like this is a sign that this is permanent now because we share a home.

Han: 01:00:00

You know, even though that they were already serious and committed to each other.

Rachel: 01:00:03

Yeah.

Han: 01:00:04

Sharing.

Han: 01:00:04

Moving in together is.

Han: 01:00:06

Is a big step up in the commitment, in that milestone in a relationship.

Han: 01:00:12

So, yeah, he definitely spirals and panics because he's like, oh, my God.

Han: 01:00:16

Like, he has all this PTSD from.

Han: 01:00:20

He really does from, you know, previously having a family and losing them.

Han: 01:00:27

So I think it's really just a fear of.

Rachel: 01:00:29

Fear of loss.

Han: 01:00:30

Fear of loss.

Han: 01:00:32

Like, I don't think he could handle that.

Rachel: 01:00:34

Yeah.

Han: 01:00:34

Kind of loss again because he's like.

Rachel: 01:00:37

Because he's, like, pulled himself up from, like, the depths of where he was to get to this point and then to be standing again on the precipice of having so much, like, you know, big risk, big reward sort of thing.

Rachel: 01:00:53

Like, if you risk it all, you.

Rachel: 01:00:54

You risk losing it, too.

Rachel: 01:00:56

And.

Rachel: 01:00:58

And he.

Rachel: 01:00:59

He's still, like, is so frozen in that moment with Hen because he's like, if he.

Rachel: 01:01:05

He says, like, if he shows up, then she'll want an answer, and if I don't show up, then that will be an answer in and of itself.

Rachel: 01:01:11

So, like, that.

Rachel: 01:01:14

I don't remember.

Han: 01:01:15

Even though she said, like, I'm not pressuring you.

Han: 01:01:17

Like, she was just.

Han: 01:01:18

She was floating the idea, but in the form of asking him.

Rachel: 01:01:24

Yeah.

Rachel: 01:01:25

Instead of.

Rachel: 01:01:26

I mean, yeah, it was.

Rachel: 01:01:28

She.

Rachel: 01:01:28

She didn't give him an ultimatum, and she made it clear that she didn't.

Rachel: 01:01:31

So that was like, that clear communication that he needed.

Rachel: 01:01:36

And I don't think he felt the pressure on there, but, like.

Rachel: 01:01:41

Well, I guess he kind of felt like not.

Rachel: 01:01:43

Not feeling the pressure from her, but the pressure on himself.

Rachel: 01:01:48

Yeah.

Rachel: 01:01:49

Which is again, you know, one of our season themes.

Rachel: 01:01:54

And what was it at the.

Rachel: 01:01:59

At the missile drone call was really funny because you see like one of those kind of rarer moments where they're.

Rachel: 01:02:09

They're a little like, bickery.

Rachel: 01:02:10

It's.

Rachel: 01:02:11

It's not even like full bicker.

Rachel: 01:02:13

But they're.

Rachel: 01:02:14

But because they're both there, they're kind of interpreting the.

Rachel: 01:02:17

The events and the call from their different perspectives.

Rachel: 01:02:20

And I think that, like, help.

Rachel: 01:02:23

It's.

Rachel: 01:02:24

It's very Bobby and Athena to like, process their own emotions through their.

Rachel: 01:02:32

The emergencies of their job.

Rachel: 01:02:34

Right.

Han: 01:02:35

Just as an aside, that is one of my favorite things that they do on the show.

Han: 01:02:39

And I don't think that it happens super often because, like, I know we see it happen in every episode where, like, they're working through their stuff via what's happening.

Han: 01:02:49

And sometimes they're talking to, like talking it out with the person or around the person.

Han: 01:02:55

But very rarely do we see two people who are having the issue that are related to the call and are like, having this conversation.

Han: 01:03:06

Yeah.

Rachel: 01:03:07

Going like, like totally talking around the.

Rachel: 01:03:09

Their own issue.

Rachel: 01:03:11

Yeah.

Han: 01:03:12

Where they're, like, talking about it like it's the people that they're helping on the call.

Rachel: 01:03:15

Yeah.

Han: 01:03:16

Actually about them.

Han: 01:03:18

I love when they do that because it just feels so Rom com.

Han: 01:03:25

Yeah.

Han: 01:03:26

Even if it's not a romantic thing, like, I don't know, it just feels like one of those things that's just very satisfying to me.

Rachel: 01:03:32

It's adjacent to the miscommunication trope.

Rachel: 01:03:36

Right.

Rachel: 01:03:36

Which is a very rom com sort of thing.

Rachel: 01:03:38

Because when they're listening to the girl and her boyfriend.

Rachel: 01:03:45

Not boyfriend, you know, kind of.

Rachel: 01:03:47

Kind of, you know, go back and forth about that.

Rachel: 01:03:49

And Bobby's like, maybe they kind of take like the different perspectives because Bobby's like, maybe she didn't want him to move on.

Rachel: 01:03:58

She just needed a minute, which is him talking about himself through this other person's experience.

Rachel: 01:04:05

And Athena was like, well, how was he supposed to know that?

Rachel: 01:04:08

And it's just like, this is the way that we.

Rachel: 01:04:12

I think we talk about that or we've talked about in one of our episodes.

Rachel: 01:04:17

It might have been like more of a season seven sort of thing, but like, they.

Rachel: 01:04:22

They don't really do confrontation about their relationship very well.

Rachel: 01:04:28

This is one of.

Rachel: 01:04:29

One of the instances where they kind of do.

Rachel: 01:04:32

But it's still in a roundabout way.

Han: 01:04:34

But it does get like, please pay a therapist.

Rachel: 01:04:38

It does get their, like, different perspectives across in a way that is like a Line of open communication.

Rachel: 01:04:44

But it's like.

Rachel: 01:04:46

It's like they're.

Rachel: 01:04:47

It's like they're role playing.

Rachel: 01:04:48

Hold on.

Rachel: 01:04:50

Hang on.

Rachel: 01:04:51

Oh, okay.

Rachel: 01:04:52

There we go.

Rachel: 01:04:53

It's like they're role playing in their couples therapy.

Rachel: 01:04:59

Oh, God.

Rachel: 01:05:00

That's mom and Dad.

Han: 01:05:03

I mean, it's not my fault.

Han: 01:05:04

They keep putting it on the screen.

Han: 01:05:05

Screen.

Rachel: 01:05:06

Right.

Rachel: 01:05:07

So.

Rachel: 01:05:07

Oh.

Rachel: 01:05:08

So I did really like that, that they were able to kind of confront each other about that in, like, an indirect way, because that.

Rachel: 01:05:17

That does kind of, like, open up the.

Rachel: 01:05:21

The other to their perspective.

Rachel: 01:05:23

And hen, of course, is just being the voice of reason here and being like, you know, she normally is.

Rachel: 01:05:28

Is she?

Sil: 01:05:29

She's so.

Rachel: 01:05:31

So.

Rachel: 01:05:31

She is so done with them.

Rachel: 01:05:33

It's so funny.

Han: 01:05:35

She is.

Han: 01:05:36

She is so far on the pendulum, just either the exasperated friend slash sister.

Han: 01:05:46

Right?

Rachel: 01:05:46

Yeah.

Han: 01:05:47

Who is the voice of reason or is destroying her life.

Han: 01:05:52

Like, there's no in between.

Rachel: 01:05:56

I think it's easier when it's not her life because she can take, like, that outside perspective to it.

Rachel: 01:06:04

That, like, very logical, you know, way that she handles things.

Rachel: 01:06:09

And she's.

Rachel: 01:06:10

But she makes good points.

Rachel: 01:06:11

She's like, people aren't afraid of what they know.

Rachel: 01:06:14

They're afraid of what they don't know.

Rachel: 01:06:16

And it is hard to hand someone the keys to your heart and.

Rachel: 01:06:19

And happiness and realize losing them might mean losing a part of yourself.

Rachel: 01:06:23

So that goes.

Rachel: 01:06:24

That speaks to that feeling and that fear of losing something that's so important.

Rachel: 01:06:32

And I just thought that was also a very on the nose kind of way to put it.

Han: 01:06:38

Oh, God, Rachel.

Rachel: 01:06:42

I'm so proud.

Rachel: 01:06:43

I did write that one down.

Han: 01:06:46

You had to write that down?

Rachel: 01:06:49

Yes, because I wanted to remember it.

Rachel: 01:06:52

Okay, that's fair.

Rachel: 01:06:53

I wrote it down for comedic timing.

Rachel: 01:06:57

I succeeded.

Sil: 01:06:59

This is not a scripted show, by the way.

Han: 01:07:02

There's literally no script.

Han: 01:07:04

There is a very 80, I'm gonna say ADHD version of organized bullet lists of shit so that we just don't forget to talk about something, because otherwise we absolutely would.

Han: 01:07:20

Yeah.

Rachel: 01:07:21

Which is why I wrote that down, because I wanted to get it.

Han: 01:07:24

The only thing that's ever scripted is just the very beginning, where we're talking about, like, whatever.

Han: 01:07:31

The episode sponsored by.

Rachel: 01:07:32

And the calls.

Han: 01:07:33

The calls.

Rachel: 01:07:34

Because Rachel writes those.

Rachel: 01:07:36

If you haven't realized, that's.

Rachel: 01:07:39

That's mine.

Han: 01:07:40

And then our sign.

Han: 01:07:41

Oh, the punny things are yours.

Han: 01:07:44

Shocking.

Rachel: 01:07:44

Just call me Cat Dracula.

Rachel: 01:07:52

No, from the.

Rachel: 01:07:53

From masks, where we were watching, and it was Bobby just being like, I'm Bobby Dracula.

Han: 01:07:58

I know.

Rachel: 01:07:59

And so you were just like.

Han: 01:08:01

And we were literally.

Han: 01:08:02

We haven't put out that reaction video.

Rachel: 01:08:03

Yet, but I know, like, that's literally.

Han: 01:08:06

Just Rachel.

Rachel: 01:08:16

Right there.

Han: 01:08:19

Where the fuck.

Han: 01:08:20

Where we.

Han: 01:08:21

Oh, yeah.

Han: 01:08:21

So just.

Han: 01:08:22

Just the beginning and the end.

Han: 01:08:23

Everything else is just natural chaos coming out of our combined brain cell.

Rachel: 01:08:31

Yes.

Rachel: 01:08:33

Aren't you lucky?

Han: 01:08:37

Are they?

Han: 01:08:39

Yes.

Han: 01:08:42

We are smart, we are funny, and people should listen to us.

Rachel: 01:08:49

Which does really contradict our other motto of who cares?

Rachel: 01:08:53

But, you know, we contain multitudes, time and place.

Han: 01:08:59

We do.

Rachel: 01:08:59

Yeah.

Rachel: 01:09:02

Anyways, so after all of.

Rachel: 01:09:06

All of that, like, contemplation of, like, fear of losing things and kind of like understanding maybe a little where the other's coming from, Bobby goes from 0 to 100 in like 60 seconds.

Rachel: 01:09:19

And I think this also comes from his conversation with Hen where she's like, where she tells him, again, voice of reason, you know, if you don't see a future, don't pretend that you do.

Rachel: 01:09:33

So, like, don't keep stringing anyone or yourself along.

Rachel: 01:09:37

So Bobby takes like 0.2 seconds to think about, do I see a future with Athena?

Rachel: 01:09:46

Yes.

Rachel: 01:09:48

So then he goes out and he buys a key thing, buys a ring, proposes, and it's just like, you want to talk about, like, feeling too fast?

Rachel: 01:09:59

Like, this is.

Rachel: 01:10:02

This is kind of like shoes on the other foot.

Rachel: 01:10:04

Because now Athena is like, what?

Han: 01:10:08

But in a good way.

Han: 01:10:09

So it's like, I feel like he took the same journey right where we talked about, so had us start that conversation about how, like, she came from being like, I don't really know about, like, where this is gonna go because I.

Han: 01:10:24

I don't think that I can, like, go public with this because I'm scared.

Han: 01:10:27

Because she was scared.

Han: 01:10:28

Because she was scared to, like, to lose it.

Han: 01:10:31

To lose.

Han: 01:10:32

So it's the same fear.

Han: 01:10:33

It's just the same journey.

Han: 01:10:34

He just speed ran that.

Han: 01:10:37

He speed ran that.

Han: 01:10:39

And he passed.

Han: 01:10:39

He passed her level.

Sil: 01:10:41

He one up her.

Han: 01:10:42

He was like, said, you want to move in together?

Han: 01:10:45

Well, I'm Catholic.

Han: 01:10:46

We can't live in sin.

Han: 01:10:54

It's different when we're not living together, you know, it's not living in sin.

Rachel: 01:10:59

No.

Rachel: 01:11:00

That was.

Sil: 01:11:01

Yeah, that's so good.

Rachel: 01:11:02

That's exactly what happened.

Rachel: 01:11:04

He's like, well, do I see a future together with her?

Rachel: 01:11:07

Yes, of course.

Han: 01:11:08

So I think I'm the whole thing.

Han: 01:11:11

I'm the resident religious trauma person.

Rachel: 01:11:14

So that's why let's must get married.

Sil: 01:11:19

I completely forgot about that.

Sil: 01:11:21

You can't.

Sil: 01:11:21

You can't be living together without being married.

Sil: 01:11:24

Actually, you can't be doing anything without being married.

Han: 01:11:27

Well, no, I mean, it depends on who you ask, what you can do.

Rachel: 01:11:35

I mean, Bobby doesn't do anything by half measures, right?

Han: 01:11:39

No.

Han: 01:11:40

His son is exactly the same way.

Rachel: 01:11:42

The apple doesn't fall far from the tree, huh?

Han: 01:11:45

Okay.

Han: 01:11:46

Anyway, the scene.

Han: 01:11:48

The engagement scene, you guys, it makes me cry every single time.

Han: 01:11:53

It makes me cry every single time.

Han: 01:11:55

It's just so sweet.

Han: 01:11:57

And I love.

Han: 01:11:58

I love that he put this whole, like, long thing together that he, like, wanted to say to her, and she was like, shut the fuck up.

Han: 01:12:04

Yes.

Rachel: 01:12:04

Like, yeah.

Rachel: 01:12:05

Oh, it was so cute.

Han: 01:12:07

But, you know, the part that he does get out, you know, part of it is that, like, he wants every.

Han: 01:12:14

He wants everything with her, not just this one next step.

Han: 01:12:17

He wants all the steps.

Han: 01:12:19

And that, you know, they both know because of their lines of work and what they've been through in life, because, you know, they've both lost, like, literally significant others, you know, so they both know how short and precious life can be.

Han: 01:12:37

Yeah.

Han: 01:12:38

And that, you know, whatever your timeline may be.

Han: 01:12:41

Yeah.

Han: 01:12:41

So, like, if you feel something.

Han: 01:12:44

If you.

Han: 01:12:45

If you feel something and you're.

Han: 01:12:46

You're, like, ready to.

Han: 01:12:48

To do it, then jump, like, who's.

Han: 01:12:50

Yeah, then jump.

Han: 01:12:51

Like, whose timeline are you, like, being beholden to?

Han: 01:12:55

So I think it's just.

Han: 01:12:58

It's so quintessentially them.

Rachel: 01:13:01

Yeah.

Rachel: 01:13:02

Athena even.

Rachel: 01:13:03

Even does, like, apologize, you know, before he goes into his whole speech.

Rachel: 01:13:07

And she's like, she shouldn't have sprung.

Rachel: 01:13:09

That.

Rachel: 01:13:10

She wasn't thinking.

Rachel: 01:13:11

But Bobby.

Han: 01:13:13

Tim.

Rachel: 01:13:13

Yeah, she thinks she spooked him, but Bobby was like, no, but you were.

Rachel: 01:13:17

You were saying what you were feeling and you were speaking from your heart, and he really appreciates that.

Rachel: 01:13:22

And then he.

Rachel: 01:13:23

Athena was so, so nervous that Bobby wasn't on the same page with her, and that's why she got, like, self conscious about it.

Rachel: 01:13:31

But then he says, basically, you know, he declares his love much in the same way that she declared it, like, when she was speaking to Michael.

Rachel: 01:13:39

And it was like when you.

Rachel: 01:13:40

When you find someone who fills your heart with happiness and hope for the future and faith in yourself.

Rachel: 01:13:45

And that's like, that's everything that Bobby has needed.

Rachel: 01:13:49

And just the fact that, like, he gets all of that from Athena is just really lovely and beautiful and they're made for each other and meant to be, and any.

Rachel: 01:14:01

Any trouble that they go through is minimal compared to, like, how much love that they have for each other and how much, like, they strive and fight for each Other and for their relationship.

Rachel: 01:14:16

It's lovely.

Sil: 01:14:17

Yeah.

Rachel: 01:14:18

I wrote down.

Rachel: 01:14:19

He really did just need a minute.

Rachel: 01:14:23

Did he just needed a minute?

Han: 01:14:25

Did he literally say need a minute during the call?

Sil: 01:14:29

He was like.

Han: 01:14:30

But were those.

Han: 01:14:31

Were those the words?

Rachel: 01:14:32

No, I don't think he said it.

Rachel: 01:14:34

But when.

Rachel: 01:14:35

When he was interpreting the.

Rachel: 01:14:36

The girl at the restaurant, and he was like, maybe she just needed a minute.

Han: 01:14:41

So it came out interesting.

Rachel: 01:14:43

But he was.

Rachel: 01:14:43

He was.

Han: 01:14:45

Where else do we hear that?

Rachel: 01:14:46

Projecting.

Rachel: 01:14:47

I know.

Rachel: 01:14:47

That's why I wrote it down.

Han: 01:14:52

Oh, those Bobby Eddie parallels.

Rachel: 01:14:58

I love the Bobby Eddy parallel so much.

Rachel: 01:15:00

And I love the Athena Buck parallels.

Rachel: 01:15:01

And it's just like.

Rachel: 01:15:02

Mmm.

Han: 01:15:04

Anyways, it's been too long since I've had a Buck and Athena scene, by the way.

Han: 01:15:09

I know.

Rachel: 01:15:09

Which we do kind of get a little itty bitty one.

Rachel: 01:15:12

And I did love how far they've also come since, like, the beginning of season one where it was, like, kind of antagonistic.

Rachel: 01:15:20

And Athena's.

Rachel: 01:15:21

Athena's like, you're always welcome.

Rachel: 01:15:24

That is her acknowledging Buck as Bobby's son.

Sil: 01:15:28

Yeah.

Rachel: 01:15:28

And for Bobby to have moved in with Athena and for Bobby to accept, like, May and Harry and everything like that, this is like the final little piece in their family unit.

Rachel: 01:15:40

Right.

Rachel: 01:15:41

Like, Buck is always welcome because Buck is basically like her stepson.

Han: 01:15:44

They ever actually communicate that to each other?

Han: 01:15:47

That would be the final piece.

Han: 01:15:48

But yeah.

Rachel: 01:15:48

Yeah.

Han: 01:15:49

Non.

Han: 01:15:49

Verbally the final piece.

Han: 01:15:51

They've said it behind each other's backs a bunch of times.

Rachel: 01:15:55

Mm.

Rachel: 01:15:56

Well, they're so cute.

Rachel: 01:15:58

It makes me so happy.

Han: 01:15:59

Cute.

Han: 01:16:00

I love mom and dad.

Han: 01:16:02

I love that mom and dad are where everyone gathers and that everyone full minus bad knee are there.

Han: 01:16:09

Yeah.

Rachel: 01:16:11

Where they should be.

Han: 01:16:12

Yeah.

Rachel: 01:16:12

It's where they all belong.

Han: 01:16:13

Yeah.

Han: 01:16:15

So cute.

Rachel: 01:16:16

Why did I just think that they're, like, the nucleus of, like, I was trying to think of, like, the center, like the heart, like the hearth.

Han: 01:16:25

They are.

Han: 01:16:27

Yes.

Han: 01:16:27

That makes.

Han: 01:16:28

I mean, I know you're kidding now.

Han: 01:16:30

The nucleus, but.

Han: 01:16:30

Yeah, the hearts.

Rachel: 01:16:32

Who's the mitochondria of the cell?

Rachel: 01:16:35

Who's the mitochondria?

Rachel: 01:16:36

The powerhouse of the cell.

Rachel: 01:16:40

Yeah.

Han: 01:16:44

Oh, dear.

Rachel: 01:16:45

Oh, okay, here we go.

Rachel: 01:16:46

So, like, when Buck shows up at the Grant Nash joint family holiday celebration, you know, Athena asks about Maddie, and Buck is like, she's having a different kind of Christmas this year.

Rachel: 01:16:59

And we kind of looking at Maddie and Chimney's arc in this episode is kind of interesting.

Han: 01:17:05

So they're.

Han: 01:17:06

They're still dancing around each other.

Han: 01:17:09

Right.

Han: 01:17:09

They're still doing that, like, we're dating, but we're not saying that we're dating.

Rachel: 01:17:14

It's like an un.

Rachel: 01:17:16

And there we have more, like, communication stuff.

Rachel: 01:17:19

Like they are kind of on the same page, but they're not communicating it.

Han: 01:17:24

Yeah, but basically, I think.

Han: 01:17:28

Does this start in the Christmas tree lot?

Han: 01:17:29

Like, where there are.

Han: 01:17:32

So.

Han: 01:17:33

So it starts out with Chimney wanting to do something special for her because it's her.

Han: 01:17:38

Her first Christmas with.

Han: 01:17:42

He tries to, like, play it off, like, oh, with everyone, like.

Han: 01:17:47

Like there.

Han: 01:17:47

But he's like, with me as friends.

Han: 01:17:50

But yeah, so he really wants to, like, do this.

Han: 01:17:52

This nice, special surprise for her because he.

Han: 01:17:56

He is very.

Han: 01:17:57

Chimney is very romantic.

Rachel: 01:17:57

More spaghetti.

Han: 01:17:58

He is very romantic.

Han: 01:18:00

And he, you know, tries to soak up every little bit of Maddie lore as, you know, as possible.

Han: 01:18:08

And I.

Han: 01:18:10

I think that Buck, like, by nature of Buck being there to help with the tree means that Buck told him that she loves Christmas and that's why they're there.

Rachel: 01:18:20

Yeah, it's.

Rachel: 01:18:21

It's giving very Brother.

Rachel: 01:18:23

Brothers in law, like, very early.

Rachel: 01:18:26

And they're already brothers.

Rachel: 01:18:29

Yeah, they're already brothers.

Rachel: 01:18:31

Like, that's the relationship that Buck has with Chimney.

Rachel: 01:18:34

But it's like, it's sweet that, like, Buck is helping Chimney out with, like, trying to do something nice for Maddie and, you know, and Chimney, dear, sweet, superstitious Chimney is basically looking for signs, right?

Rachel: 01:18:54

And we get some.

Rachel: 01:18:55

We get some, I guess you could say, bad omens, because this is where Doug, quote, unquote, Jason Bailey shows up, you know, as this little, like, Christmas angel to help out.

Rachel: 01:19:08

But it's really nefarious.

Sil: 01:19:12

Right.

Sil: 01:19:12

So for someone who's.

Sil: 01:19:14

So what's the word that I want to use?

Sil: 01:19:19

I don't know what word I want to use to describe him, but, like, the fact.

Sil: 01:19:22

People oriented or I guess people oriented.

Sil: 01:19:25

Sure.

Han: 01:19:26

He loves people.

Sil: 01:19:27

He likes people.

Sil: 01:19:28

Sure, let's go with that.

Han: 01:19:29

He's a very friendly person.

Sil: 01:19:31

I know he.

Sil: 01:19:32

Okay, so I think that's what I wanna.

Sil: 01:19:33

I think that's what I want to say.

Sil: 01:19:35

So for someone who's like, I understand that he's like a very friendly person, but I think.

Sil: 01:19:42

I don't know where.

Sil: 01:19:43

Where was Chimney's alarm bells, Right?

Sil: 01:19:47

Like, how could you not think it's so suspicious that the same man just showed up?

Rachel: 01:19:54

It's a little weird.

Sil: 01:19:55

It's just talking to you.

Sil: 01:19:56

I don't know.

Han: 01:19:57

He's from la, right?

Sil: 01:19:59

Yes.

Han: 01:20:00

Chimney.

Sil: 01:20:01

Yes.

Han: 01:20:02

Okay.

Han: 01:20:02

This might be an inherent west vs East coast thing too, or maybe northeast.

Han: 01:20:08

I don't know.

Han: 01:20:08

About, like.

Han: 01:20:09

Because I think the south is friendlier or, like, faux friendlier, but it's, like.

Sil: 01:20:13

Not in South Florida.

Han: 01:20:15

If a stranger is trying to talk to me, I'm like, what do you want?

Sil: 01:20:19

Yeah.

Han: 01:20:20

I'm immediately suspicious.

Sil: 01:20:21

Oh, yeah, 100%.

Han: 01:20:23

So the first time I visited the west coast and LA was the first stop, like, I went the whole way up the coast, I was like, why the fuck is everyone talking to me?

Han: 01:20:33

And not just, like, polite small talk, like, why is every.

Han: 01:20:36

What is wrong with people here?

Han: 01:20:38

So, yeah, that might just be his inherent.

Han: 01:20:43

Like, he's friendly.

Han: 01:20:44

He just.

Han: 01:20:45

His, like, natural setting is to trust people until proven otherwise versus being suspicious until proven that you can be trustworthy.

Rachel: 01:20:54

And he does also, like I said, he does very much, like, believe in this concept of signs.

Rachel: 01:21:02

And so if the same person is showing up just, like, happenstance and.

Rachel: 01:21:07

And has already in his mind, like, proven to be a nice, helpful person, like, he's gonna see that as, like, a divine trust.

Rachel: 01:21:17

Yeah, like a.

Rachel: 01:21:18

Like a divine intervention sort of thing.

Rachel: 01:21:20

Like, just he.

Rachel: 01:21:22

He has a lot of faith in the universe, I think.

Rachel: 01:21:27

And it might also be kind of stemming from a lot of his love for movies and tv, you know, because it's all very, like, divined in that way.

Rachel: 01:21:38

I don't know.

Rachel: 01:21:38

It's just like.

Rachel: 01:21:39

Because also, like, if he's.

Rachel: 01:21:41

If he's a big movie buff, he's gonna know, like, you know, that it's a wonderful life.

Rachel: 01:21:46

Absolutely.

Rachel: 01:21:47

And this whole idea of, like, having a Clarence look out for him sort of, or a guardian angel kind of look out for him.

Rachel: 01:21:54

He's going to, especially in the spirit of Christmas, like, kind of lean into that a little more than some of our other characters would.

Han: 01:22:01

This would really help if we had sorted his astrology, but we haven't at this point, because water signs are not trusting people.

Rachel: 01:22:11

Oh, he's not a water sign.

Han: 01:22:13

No.

Rachel: 01:22:13

So Gemini.

Han: 01:22:21

Stop.

Rachel: 01:22:24

I'm right.

Sil: 01:22:27

I.

Sil: 01:22:27

I have no stake in.

Sil: 01:22:28

I have no stakes in this game.

Sil: 01:22:30

I'm not playing.

Han: 01:22:30

Yeah, we'll talk about it later.

Han: 01:22:31

We'll talk about it later.

Han: 01:22:33

But, yeah, he definitely.

Han: 01:22:35

He definitely is a trusting person until, you know, proven otherwise.

Han: 01:22:40

We're like, compare him.

Han: 01:22:41

The best person I can think of is Eddie.

Han: 01:22:45

He was like, trust no bitch.

Han: 01:22:48

So he's like, oh, my God, like, you are my guardian angel.

Han: 01:22:52

Just like Rachel sent.

Han: 01:22:53

Like, he would see that as a good.

Han: 01:22:55

He's seeing things as good signs.

Han: 01:22:57

Unless it's a crow.

Sil: 01:23:01

Oh, yeah.

Han: 01:23:01

Something that he is like, I have to think About.

Han: 01:23:03

Because the Internet has mixed reviews.

Rachel: 01:23:06

I mean, he very much does see things as like, a good omen or kind of a bad omen.

Rachel: 01:23:11

And if he has experience with something being a bad omen, it's gonna kind of scar him for life.

Rachel: 01:23:16

But, like, if he has.

Rachel: 01:23:18

I think he does, like, take a lot of his experiences and uses that to inform his opinions.

Rachel: 01:23:25

And if.

Rachel: 01:23:27

If it was, like, a good kind of experience, then he's going to take it in a positive sign kind of way.

Rachel: 01:23:32

So I.

Rachel: 01:23:33

I think.

Rachel: 01:23:34

I think it's just the.

Rachel: 01:23:35

The way that he, like, processes information in.

Rachel: 01:23:39

In that kind of sense.

Rachel: 01:23:40

Does.

Rachel: 01:23:41

Does that make sense?

Han: 01:23:43

It's just.

Han: 01:23:43

Priscilla and I were like, could not be us.

Sil: 01:23:46

Yeah.

Sil: 01:23:46

I was like, why are we so jaded?

Sil: 01:23:49

Oh, my God.

Han: 01:23:52

I choose to not.

Han: 01:23:54

I choose to not see it as jaded.

Rachel: 01:23:56

You're just more hesitant to.

Han: 01:24:00

I just think that trust needs to be earned, not given.

Sil: 01:24:04

Yeah.

Han: 01:24:06

Well, okay.

Han: 01:24:07

I'm gonna say a thing, and then we should get back to it.

Han: 01:24:09

But, like, yes, you can be like.

Han: 01:24:12

Because Rachel and TJ and my best friend are very much.

Han: 01:24:15

I'm speaking for you, but, like, that's fine.

Han: 01:24:17

Are very much the opposite of us.

Han: 01:24:19

Right?

Han: 01:24:19

Where they're, like, they trust.

Han: 01:24:20

They don't implicitly trust.

Han: 01:24:22

Right.

Han: 01:24:23

But there's, like, a baseline level of trust, just, like, because they're, like, people are good overall.

Han: 01:24:29

Right.

Han: 01:24:30

And that's fine.

Han: 01:24:31

That's a fine point of view, but it doesn't mean that, like, when they are forming a relationship and a bond with someone who works differently, that that person owes them that kind of trust in return.

Han: 01:24:44

Like, they have to respect that.

Han: 01:24:45

That's not how everyone works.

Rachel: 01:24:48

Right.

Han: 01:24:49

That's how I.

Rachel: 01:24:50

That's how I operate.

Han: 01:24:51

Friendship.

Han: 01:24:52

I don't know.

Rachel: 01:24:52

That's how I operate.

Rachel: 01:24:53

It's like, I know I have a baseline.

Rachel: 01:24:56

Just like a.

Rachel: 01:24:57

Like.

Rachel: 01:24:57

Yeah, that was actually kind of, like, really accurate.

Rachel: 01:24:59

I personally have a baseline.

Rachel: 01:25:01

Like, everybody starts at, you know, this level, and they can go up or down or they can go down.

Rachel: 01:25:07

Yeah, I know.

Rachel: 01:25:10

Hello.

Han: 01:25:12

We're not keeping this in the episode, Rachel.

Han: 01:25:14

You can just talk.

Rachel: 01:25:15

Okay.

Rachel: 01:25:16

But I know that, like, other people don't operate that.

Rachel: 01:25:20

And you have to start from, like, zero and work your way up.

Rachel: 01:25:24

But I start at, like, you know, 50 if we're going, like, not really necessarily that much, but, like, you have to start from, like, the ground level and go up.

Rachel: 01:25:36

Whereas, like, I'm already on the third story or whatever.

Sil: 01:25:40

Yeah.

Han: 01:25:40

If you don't respect that, that's not how earning trust works for me, then that's suspicious.

Rachel: 01:25:48

Yeah.

Han: 01:25:49

You're upset that you have to earn my trust.

Han: 01:25:53

That's suspicious.

Han: 01:25:54

No.

Rachel: 01:25:55

And that.

Rachel: 01:25:55

And that's warranted to.

Rachel: 01:25:57

For someone to be like.

Rachel: 01:25:59

Like, I go into every.

Rachel: 01:26:01

I guess, like, friendship being, like, I have to, you know.

Rachel: 01:26:06

Well, not.

Rachel: 01:26:07

Not really, but, like, prove endear, but, like, kind of work.

Rachel: 01:26:11

Work my way up to that for the other person.

Rachel: 01:26:17

Which is not.

Rachel: 01:26:18

Which is not necessarily like, how I would.

Rachel: 01:26:20

How it would be the opposite way.

Rachel: 01:26:21

Like, if you were coming to me, I would just be like, yes, we're friends.

Han: 01:26:24

Mm.

Rachel: 01:26:25

Yes, I trust you, because I have no reason not to.

Rachel: 01:26:28

So unless you give me.

Rachel: 01:26:30

And then the longer you.

Han: 01:26:31

You know someone and get to know them, the more.

Rachel: 01:26:33

The more it grows.

Rachel: 01:26:34

Yeah.

Han: 01:26:35

Yeah.

Rachel: 01:26:35

Yeah.

Sil: 01:26:37

Anyways, I was also gonna add my vibe checks.

Sil: 01:26:46

Yeah, there's also that.

Sil: 01:26:48

But sometimes people can get through them.

Han: 01:26:51

That's true.

Sil: 01:26:52

They can get through them, just.

Han: 01:26:53

But it's always the narcissist man, because.

Rachel: 01:26:57

They know how to manipulate the system.

Han: 01:27:00

I can sniff those out now, though.

Han: 01:27:02

I've had enough of them.

Han: 01:27:08

I don't know why I said that.

Han: 01:27:09

Like, I'm bragging.

Rachel: 01:27:12

It's.

Rachel: 01:27:12

It's a skill that you need to.

Han: 01:27:14

Like so many people.

Han: 01:27:16

Yeah.

Rachel: 01:27:17

Unfortunately.

Rachel: 01:27:18

I'm sorry.

Rachel: 01:27:19

Yeah.

Han: 01:27:20

No.

Han: 01:27:21

But, yeah, vibe checks don't always work.

Han: 01:27:24

It's not a foolproof system.

Sil: 01:27:26

No.

Han: 01:27:28

And sometimes you're put into situations where you have to, like, try and ignore the vibe check that doesn't get passed.

Han: 01:27:39

Yep.

Rachel: 01:27:40

That's a good point, too.

Sil: 01:27:41

I think I'm usually right.

Sil: 01:27:43

When I can sense something negative.

Sil: 01:27:48

That's where I'm right.

Sil: 01:27:49

But when I'm, like.

Sil: 01:27:50

When they pat.

Sil: 01:27:53

When they pass the vibe check, because they do have, like, this outer Persona that they usually present to the world, that's when it's like, okay, they passed my vibe check because they just.

Sil: 01:28:09

They just had that whole mask on.

Sil: 01:28:11

And then you get to know them, and then just.

Rachel: 01:28:14

And you have to dig you when.

Rachel: 01:28:16

It's only when you dig deeper that that kind of facade, like.

Sil: 01:28:22

Like, you start saying little things.

Sil: 01:28:24

Yeah.

Han: 01:28:25

Yeah.

Rachel: 01:28:26

And.

Rachel: 01:28:26

And that's the point of that kind of mask, is to get past those vibe checks.

Han: 01:28:31

So, honestly, it's not.

Han: 01:28:33

Keep some of this in because I feel, like, relevant to Maddie and Douglas.

Rachel: 01:28:37

Mm.

Han: 01:28:37

Well, in chimney, like, in general.

Han: 01:28:39

That's why we're talking about it.

Rachel: 01:28:40

Well, you know who else had, like, also vibe check.

Rachel: 01:28:45

Buck never.

Rachel: 01:28:46

Like, Doug.

Han: 01:28:47

No.

Rachel: 01:28:48

And he has made that clear from the very beginning.

Rachel: 01:28:52

Like, when when he.

Rachel: 01:28:54

From the first episode of the season, when he was like, wow, you finally did it.

Rachel: 01:28:58

You left him, like.

Rachel: 01:29:00

Like, he's just been kind of waiting for that because he.

Han: 01:29:02

Oh, yeah.

Rachel: 01:29:03

He is such, like, an intuitive.

Rachel: 01:29:06

Right.

Rachel: 01:29:07

That his guard was up about Doug from the very beginning.

Rachel: 01:29:12

And that is interesting, I guess, then to compare that with Chimney.

Rachel: 01:29:16

I mean, again, they're obviously like different people.

Rachel: 01:29:18

And Chimney was under the impression that this person was completely someone else.

Rachel: 01:29:24

But that's also because Doug was purposely putting on that facade, that mass, to lead Chimney down this very specific path of what he wanted, which is also, like, I think it's fair to say, like, Doug is like a narcissist as well.

Rachel: 01:29:40

Right.

Rachel: 01:29:41

So.

Rachel: 01:29:42

So he knows how to get past those vibe checks because he knows how to endear himself to people, because that's how he manipulates.

Rachel: 01:29:52

So unfortunately, Chimney, it's just a little easier to manipulate because he's so trusting, but that's what makes him an easy target and probably why Doug pinned him in the first place because he would have had to already be around and kind of be doing, like, the stalkery thing.

Han: 01:30:13

Yeah.

Han: 01:30:14

I was thinking, because you said that, like, we see Buck continually talk about, like, how much he hates him.

Han: 01:30:21

I don't.

Han: 01:30:21

I don't remember if you said it, but, like, when Maddie is telling him about the abuse.

Rachel: 01:30:27

Yes.

Han: 01:30:27

She says the things that you noticed about him, even as a kid.

Han: 01:30:30

So he wasn't passing the vibe check, even from adolescent Buck.

Rachel: 01:30:35

Yeah.

Rachel: 01:30:36

And that probably also speaks to Buck's character as well, because he can't.

Rachel: 01:30:42

He learned from a young age that he couldn't inherently trust people like that because, like, the people that he's supposed to rely on, his parents aren't going to follow through.

Rachel: 01:30:54

And also the people that he did trust, Maddie, are going to leave him anyway.

Rachel: 01:31:00

So.

Rachel: 01:31:00

So he would automatically, like, have those walls up anyways, like, from a very young age.

Rachel: 01:31:06

So he's, like, perceptive like that, but chimney.

Rachel: 01:31:10

Yeah, he just wants to see, like, the good in people because he is a good people.

Rachel: 01:31:16

And even, I mean, even though he's been disappointed by others, I think he still generally, like, has a, you know, like you said, a baseline that you can just, like, build up or deteriorate.

Rachel: 01:31:27

But, like, just generally, like, you start off at, you know, more than ground level and work your way to more trust sort of thing.

Han: 01:31:36

But I think it's interesting if you look at how Maddie and Buck were both raised by the same parents.

Han: 01:31:42

I mean, like, Maddie had different parents, basically.

Han: 01:31:45

We think for the first couple, however.

Rachel: 01:31:48

Years, at least 9, 10 something years.

Han: 01:31:51

But then she went through the same kind of neglect, and then she was parentified and all of these things.

Han: 01:31:58

So because of how her experience was different with the same parents, Doug was able to take advantage of.

Rachel: 01:32:06

Exactly.

Han: 01:32:07

And manipulate her based on the drama she had from that to fill in the gaps that she, you know, was missing.

Rachel: 01:32:17

And I think.

Rachel: 01:32:18

And I know we're talking a lot about stuff that isn't explicit in this episode, but more later on.

Rachel: 01:32:24

But, like, I think it is a good point to.

Rachel: 01:32:27

Again, that difference between, like, Buck being able to see that more clearly and Maddie not.

Rachel: 01:32:32

And I think that does kind of go back to the fact that the earlier parts of her life, like, she would have developed that kind of, like, trust.

Rachel: 01:32:44

Trusting of people, you know?

Rachel: 01:32:46

So, like, she.

Rachel: 01:32:47

I think she is kind of like chimney in that way as well, where, like, she.

Rachel: 01:32:52

She probably also has, like, a baseline.

Rachel: 01:32:54

And you work up and you.

Rachel: 01:32:55

Or you work your way down, but you start at, like, a higher level.

Rachel: 01:32:59

Just, like, anyways.

Rachel: 01:33:00

And it's up to the other person to, like, you know, dictate whether that.

Han: 01:33:04

Yeah.

Rachel: 01:33:05

Yeah.

Rachel: 01:33:05

Whether that trust goes up or down.

Rachel: 01:33:07

And again, with a narcissist, they know how to.

Rachel: 01:33:10

They know how to manipulate that.

Rachel: 01:33:12

And Doug would have, like.

Han: 01:33:15

And they caught on to that.

Han: 01:33:17

Narcissists love empathetic people, which.

Rachel: 01:33:21

Maddie.

Rachel: 01:33:22

Maddie cries every day at work.

Rachel: 01:33:23

She's the most empathetic.

Han: 01:33:26

And I think.

Han: 01:33:26

I think chimney.

Han: 01:33:27

Is empathy pathetic, too.

Rachel: 01:33:29

Absolutely.

Han: 01:33:30

It's more insular, but you know what I mean?

Han: 01:33:33

I feel like they can sniff it out.

Rachel: 01:33:36

Yeah.

Rachel: 01:33:38

Almost like a weak.

Rachel: 01:33:39

It's not a weakness, but, like, they have that kind of, like, detector.

Han: 01:33:45

Sorry, I just gotta, like, feel gross feeling about him, like, watching 118 and, like, scoping out.

Han: 01:33:50

He wanted to, like, use as an it.

Rachel: 01:33:52

Yeah.

Rachel: 01:33:53

Yeah.

Rachel: 01:33:53

And it's also interesting, too, that he didn't use Buck because he would have recognized Buck.

Rachel: 01:33:58

Right.

Rachel: 01:33:59

But he also.

Han: 01:34:00

He knows Buck hates him.

Rachel: 01:34:01

Yeah, he knows Buck hates him, but he also.

Rachel: 01:34:04

Okay, so when they're at the tree lot, I know we're still there.

Rachel: 01:34:09

He.

Rachel: 01:34:10

Doug, waits until Buck walks away to come up to chimney because he also knows.

Rachel: 01:34:17

He knows Buck and he knows Buck would recognize him.

Rachel: 01:34:20

So he has to be so strategic, and it could so easily be, like, a close call.

Rachel: 01:34:28

Like, Buck comes back, and then all of a sudden it's like, wait, I know you.

Rachel: 01:34:32

And then the jig would have been up, but.

Rachel: 01:34:35

And that just goes to show, like, how, like, manipulative nefarious.

Rachel: 01:34:40

Like, villainous.

Rachel: 01:34:42

We don't get a lot of villains in 91 1, but Doug is absolutely.

Han: 01:34:46

Oh, yeah.

Rachel: 01:34:47

Like the villain.

Rachel: 01:34:48

Like, he's the villain.

Han: 01:34:50

Yeah.

Rachel: 01:34:50

He is the big bad.

Rachel: 01:34:53

So it just, like, shows how much premeditation is part of this whole scheme of his as well.

Rachel: 01:35:00

And even.

Rachel: 01:35:01

Even to, like, show up again when Chimney is renting Die Hard and.

Rachel: 01:35:07

And swipes his wallet right out from Chimney's nose, which, like, is kind.

Rachel: 01:35:13

Is kind of impressive.

Rachel: 01:35:14

Like, But I guess because he's a.

Rachel: 01:35:16

He's a doctor or a surgeon.

Rachel: 01:35:18

Right.

Rachel: 01:35:18

So I guess he has to have, like, nimble fingers.

Han: 01:35:20

Two different pickpockets in this episode.

Rachel: 01:35:23

What was the second one?

Han: 01:35:25

Oh.

Rachel: 01:35:26

Oh, my gosh.

Rachel: 01:35:27

Wait.

Rachel: 01:35:28

That's so interesting from the.

Rachel: 01:35:30

The guy on the bus.

Rachel: 01:35:31

Right.

Rachel: 01:35:32

That the.

Han: 01:35:32

I don't know what the connection would be.

Han: 01:35:34

Well, well, that guy was shady.

Rachel: 01:35:37

I mean, I guess died.

Rachel: 01:35:39

I guess it's people picking up on the vibe checks.

Rachel: 01:35:42

Right?

Han: 01:35:42

Maybe it's.

Rachel: 01:35:45

It's the awful people thing.

Rachel: 01:35:46

That's what it is.

Rachel: 01:35:47

It's the awful people because the Marine, you know, confronts.

Rachel: 01:35:54

Confronts the guy pickpocketing on the bus and, you know, says to give it back.

Rachel: 01:35:59

Da, da, da, da.

Rachel: 01:36:00

But ends up still saving his life because the pickpocket was the one that, like, got the glass in the carotid artery.

Rachel: 01:36:07

So the Marine is also kind of very much like Maddie with Gloria.

Rachel: 01:36:14

Right.

Rachel: 01:36:14

So like someone who was a bad person, an awful person, yet you're still going to, like, do your job and do the right thing and help them out or save their lives.

Rachel: 01:36:25

That is the connection.

Han: 01:36:27

So I want to steer us back on the track.

Rachel: 01:36:29

Sorry.

Han: 01:36:30

It's okay.

Rachel: 01:36:31

It just clicks.

Han: 01:36:31

We were all participants in that derailment.

Rachel: 01:36:33

Fun.

Han: 01:36:34

Interesting.

Sil: 01:36:34

Hey.

Han: 01:36:34

But we brought it back on track.

Han: 01:36:36

We did.

Han: 01:36:36

Look at us go.

Han: 01:36:38

It's like there's a loose outline.

Han: 01:36:40

So we don't forget.

Rachel: 01:36:45

Magic.

Han: 01:36:46

So, yeah, I just, I think finishing touching on him, trying to surprise Maddie.

Rachel: 01:36:52

Yeah.

Han: 01:36:53

With this tree.

Han: 01:36:54

And, you know, Buck goes with him, and she's like, I don't have any.

Han: 01:36:58

She's trying to, like, gently refuse the tree, I think.

Han: 01:37:03

But, like, they're, like, thought of everything, which is so sad, not picking up the vibes from her.

Han: 01:37:10

Speaking of vibes.

Han: 01:37:11

And then we see.

Han: 01:37:13

We see her yell at Buck, and, like, we see them, like, fighting.

Han: 01:37:16

We hear them fighting.

Han: 01:37:17

And I'm like, we don't.

Rachel: 01:37:18

We don't see that a lot.

Han: 01:37:20

So it's really interesting because I feel like Buck, especially with her would try to de escalate in that kind of situation.

Han: 01:37:28

But he hates Doug so fucking much.

Han: 01:37:31

And it's like he took his sister from him for so many years, and he, you know, he did fucking horrible things to her for that entire time.

Han: 01:37:41

And he.

Rachel: 01:37:42

And he really hates how much he has.

Rachel: 01:37:46

How much Doug has taken from Maddie because he knows, like, Buck knows how much Maddie loves Christmas.

Rachel: 01:37:52

It's obvious they wouldn't have gone through all that trouble if she didn't.

Rachel: 01:37:57

And just to see her kind of.

Rachel: 01:37:59

I mean, they're still, again, learning.

Rachel: 01:38:02

Learning each other and learning how to navigate their sibling relationship now.

Rachel: 01:38:10

And he's so frustrated and angry and upset that, you know, this awful, awful person ruined something that made Maddie so happy.

Rachel: 01:38:23

And it's just another reason to hate Doug.

Rachel: 01:38:26

But because Maddie is so kind of like, on the defensive, she doesn't de escalate with Buck.

Rachel: 01:38:34

And she really, like, lashes out, which we don't see very often at all.

Han: 01:38:40

No, no.

Han: 01:38:41

Because she was very triggered by it.

Rachel: 01:38:44

Yeah.

Han: 01:38:45

So she was not in a situation where she, I think, felt comfortable to, like, talk about.

Han: 01:38:51

Why?

Han: 01:38:52

Because it's still fresh.

Han: 01:38:54

Yes.

Han: 01:38:55

She just wanted it.

Han: 01:38:56

To not be confronted with it anymore, especially because Buck was trying to push the issue.

Han: 01:39:02

So I think it's really sweet that we do see that she does open up about it at the end.

Han: 01:39:07

And it's with chimney.

Rachel: 01:39:09

Yeah.

Rachel: 01:39:10

And I think that really drives home because, you know, they only met in 206.

Rachel: 01:39:17

Right.

Rachel: 01:39:17

So like four episodes prior.

Rachel: 01:39:19

And there was kind of like this instant connection.

Rachel: 01:39:22

And it was.

Rachel: 01:39:24

It was setting up chimney as this, like, very safe place because he was setting up her security assistant and everything.

Rachel: 01:39:31

And he continues to be that for her, which is really lovely.

Rachel: 01:39:35

Like, it's that through line and.

Rachel: 01:39:38

And chimney even says, like, Christmas is supposed to be safe.

Rachel: 01:39:42

He says, safe first.

Rachel: 01:39:44

Safe and warm with the people you care about most.

Rachel: 01:39:47

That is the gift.

Rachel: 01:39:48

So that's another example of, like, people like home and the.

Rachel: 01:39:52

And the gift is people.

Rachel: 01:39:55

And he's like, it doesn't have to be perfect.

Rachel: 01:39:59

And when I'm getting.

Rachel: 01:40:00

I'm getting goosebumps.

Rachel: 01:40:02

Like when.

Rachel: 01:40:03

When Maddie.

Rachel: 01:40:04

When Maddie says that she got the tree, which I'm assuming is the tree that he left.

Han: 01:40:09

Yeah, it's the tree.

Rachel: 01:40:10

And she's like, you know, it's not perfect, but she tried.

Rachel: 01:40:15

And chimney is like, it doesn't have to be perfect.

Rachel: 01:40:18

He says it's beautiful.

Rachel: 01:40:19

And I love this moment because it's that classic again, another, like, rom com thing.

Rachel: 01:40:25

Because he's like he's behind her.

Rachel: 01:40:27

So they're not looking at each other.

Rachel: 01:40:29

No, he's behind her, so she's not looking at him.

Rachel: 01:40:33

But he's like, yeah, it's beautiful.

Rachel: 01:40:35

But he's looking at her.

Rachel: 01:40:37

And it's the cutest thing.

Rachel: 01:40:40

Oh, my gosh.

Rachel: 01:40:41

And it just makes me warm and fuzzy and it's so adorable because you're going from, you know, especially with the flashback that happens like, right after this and the absolute, like, horror of the reality of what Maddie's life was like with Doug and on that Christmas a year ago and where he's talking about, like, it's not perfect.

Rachel: 01:41:04

You'll get it.

Rachel: 01:41:04

You'll.

Rachel: 01:41:05

You'll get it perfect one day.

Rachel: 01:41:07

And to have that just like, just completely juxtaposed with the warmth and safety and understanding that Chimney has just, like, inherently that it doesn't have to be perfect and all you have to do is be safe and with the people you love.

Rachel: 01:41:25

This is why Chimney and Maddie work so well, because they bring out the things in each other that they're.

Rachel: 01:41:37

That they're not lacking, but that they.

Rachel: 01:41:41

That they need to be brought out.

Han: 01:41:43

Yeah.

Rachel: 01:41:44

And it's really.

Rachel: 01:41:45

I just.

Rachel: 01:41:45

I really love that rom com moment.

Han: 01:41:48

It's really sweet.

Han: 01:41:50

And I think it's really sweet that he just continually just like, tries to anticipate what she needs, you know, and he never.

Han: 01:42:00

He's just very gentle and thoughtful, very giving, you know.

Han: 01:42:05

Yeah.

Han: 01:42:05

And knowing, especially trying to be careful because of what she's been through.

Rachel: 01:42:10

Yeah.

Han: 01:42:10

So I love how much it shows about him as like a person and a partner, you know, that he continues to.

Rachel: 01:42:18

And it.

Rachel: 01:42:19

And it shows how much he's grown too, because he is being wholly himself with Maddie, which is, you know, we've seen him grow from season one up until now and feel more complete within himself, but he was still searching for, like, you know, someone else to.

Rachel: 01:42:45

What does Bobby say?

Rachel: 01:42:47

Like, someone who brings happiness and hope for the future and faith in themselves.

Rachel: 01:42:54

And I feel like Maddie and Chimney do that for each other so wonderfully.

Rachel: 01:43:00

And it's.

Rachel: 01:43:01

And it's like, it feels like they have a fairly effortless connection in that way, you know, that it just falls into place.

Han: 01:43:12

I think we talked about the flashback.

Rachel: 01:43:13

Already a little bit, but there was one thing with.

Rachel: 01:43:17

When Maddie is, like, picking this stuff off the floor and she sees the postcard from Buckingham.

Sil: 01:43:22

Yeah.

Rachel: 01:43:23

And that's a nice, like, tie back to, you know, when we're introduced to Maddie and.

Rachel: 01:43:28

And she.

Rachel: 01:43:29

And Buck was like, I Sent postcards, and I never got anything back.

Rachel: 01:43:33

And.

Rachel: 01:43:34

And we'll also see, like, you know, further down the line how significant those postcards and that lifeline that Maddie had to Buck really is.

Rachel: 01:43:46

So, like, it's.

Rachel: 01:43:48

It's really interesting to see, like, in the moment because she, like, picks it up and looks at it, and I think that's kind of where she.

Rachel: 01:43:54

To leave.

Rachel: 01:43:55

But then she also, like, hides it and puts it in her pocket.

Rachel: 01:43:59

Yeah, she protects him, but she also, like, uses that as, like, her armor to protect herself a little bit, which is.

Rachel: 01:44:07

Which, you know, from, like, that point to knowing now, like, that she ended up going to see Buck in the first place is great.

Rachel: 01:44:17

And, like, that's what she.

Rachel: 01:44:18

That's what she needed.

Rachel: 01:44:19

And now look at all this, the good stuff happening for her.

Rachel: 01:44:23

I know we'll go through, like, bad stuff, but it's mostly good.

Han: 01:44:26

Lorbos have to go through bad things.

Rachel: 01:44:29

Yeah.

Rachel: 01:44:29

Yeah.

Rachel: 01:44:30

And then I think I just had one more thing I wanted to just, like, briefly touch on.

Rachel: 01:44:35

When Chimney is at the movie rentals and Doug shows up, and they're talking about Die Hard, right?

Rachel: 01:44:42

Which I don't know, in my opinion, definitely a Christmas movie.

Rachel: 01:44:46

I'm with Chimney there.

Rachel: 01:44:48

And Doug's talking about how Die Hard.

Rachel: 01:44:51

He sees Die Hard as a movie about a guy just trying to keep his marriage together with terrorists.

Rachel: 01:44:58

And I'm like, hmm.

Rachel: 01:45:00

Because in.

Rachel: 01:45:01

In his world, Right.

Rachel: 01:45:04

He is also just trying to keep his marriage together.

Rachel: 01:45:07

However, he is also the terrorist to his own marriage in this case, so.

Rachel: 01:45:13

And he also very much sees himself as, like, McLean die hard, because he's like, McLean, like, the guy won his wife back in the end, so he's very much, like, putting himself in this, like, hero position, and that's not gonna work.

Rachel: 01:45:30

So he's delusional and narcissistic.

Han: 01:45:34

They normally are.

Rachel: 01:45:36

They normally are.

Rachel: 01:45:37

So I just thought that was, like, a very interesting, like, it.

Rachel: 01:45:41

The little crumbs are there before the reveal, right?

Han: 01:45:51

Yeah.

Han: 01:45:52

They did a good job with that.

Rachel: 01:45:53

Yeah.

Han: 01:45:54

Okay.

Han: 01:45:54

Are we ready?

Rachel: 01:45:56

I think so.

Han: 01:45:57

Are we ready for Eddie?

Rachel: 01:45:59

Are we ready?

Rachel: 01:46:00

Freddie Mercury, I miss you.

Rachel: 01:46:07

Oh, man.

Rachel: 01:46:08

Next week.

Rachel: 01:46:08

Next week.

Rachel: 01:46:09

We're gonna have one more week.

Rachel: 01:46:10

I know.

Han: 01:46:13

It wasn't even real in the last one.

Rachel: 01:46:18

I know.

Rachel: 01:46:18

I'm so mad about that.

Rachel: 01:46:20

I'm like.

Sil: 01:46:20

I find that.

Han: 01:46:21

I can't believe they hyped this mustache up so much for it to, like, not be real for most, if not all of that episode.

Han: 01:46:28

And it was.

Rachel: 01:46:29

It was not real in any of that episode.

Rachel: 01:46:31

I looked at the shape of it.

Han: 01:46:36

I did not.

Rachel: 01:46:39

Oh, that was just a me thing.

Rachel: 01:46:41

Okay.

Rachel: 01:46:43

All right.

Rachel: 01:46:48

I know.

Rachel: 01:46:49

It just.

Rachel: 01:46:49

It just makes me so, like, because I'm, like, in mourning already.

Rachel: 01:46:55

We're gonna have to post, like, the in memorial hot take that.

Han: 01:46:59

We may or may not believe in this or put anywhere.

Han: 01:47:02

Rachel and I.

Han: 01:47:03

I don't know, we're still probably ends on this scale.

Sil: 01:47:06

Oh, sorry.

Han: 01:47:07

We think he looks better with the mustache.

Rachel: 01:47:11

Not many people can pull off a mustache and pull it off well.

Han: 01:47:15

It balances his face.

Han: 01:47:18

It enhances his features.

Han: 01:47:20

The only thing that I like more than the mustache is, like, his nice stubble from, like, season two.

Rachel: 01:47:26

And I would go, mustache, beard, stubble, clean.

Rachel: 01:47:28

Sherman, I know Sil has a different opinion.

Han: 01:47:30

I always forget about beard because they're never going to let Eddie have one and be too powerful.

Han: 01:47:35

Oh, I know.

Rachel: 01:47:36

I mean, for Eddie.

Rachel: 01:47:37

For Eddie, obviously.

Rachel: 01:47:38

But I'm just talking about, like, on this, this man's face.

Han: 01:47:44

Yeah.

Han: 01:47:44

Ryan.

Han: 01:47:45

Yeah.

Han: 01:47:46

I think for me, beards, Double mustache, clean shaven mustache.

Han: 01:47:51

No, not for me.

Han: 01:47:52

For you.

Han: 01:47:53

Yes.

Han: 01:47:53

I just don't like clean shaven in general.

Rachel: 01:47:57

Doesn't do anything.

Han: 01:47:58

Let them have a.

Han: 01:47:58

Let.

Han: 01:47:59

Let men have stubble.

Han: 01:48:00

2k 24 infinity.

Rachel: 01:48:04

But yeah, I.

Rachel: 01:48:06

I really love how you asked a rhetorical question that one time over dms and I was like, I have answers.

Rachel: 01:48:12

It's aesthetically pleasing and it balances because of the dark and the light and the shadows and.

Rachel: 01:48:19

Not that I spent any time thinking about that at all.

Han: 01:48:22

Sil, do you have opinions on this?

Sil: 01:48:28

I don't.

Sil: 01:48:30

I think.

Sil: 01:48:30

I think it's just a matter of.

Sil: 01:48:32

I've seen him clean shaven a lot.

Sil: 01:48:34

I've seen him with mustache a lot.

Sil: 01:48:37

When it comes to beard, I think I've only seen it a couple times.

Sil: 01:48:41

And I think I need to see more of that before I can give him a ranking.

Sil: 01:48:46

Well, give that a ranking.

Sil: 01:48:48

So as far as ranking goes, controversial, hot take, unpopular opinion.

Sil: 01:49:07

I think.

Rachel: 01:49:08

Say it with your chest.

Rachel: 01:49:09

My God, Sil, we know what you think.

Rachel: 01:49:12

It's fine.

Sil: 01:49:15

Yeah, so I.

Sil: 01:49:16

I do like him clean shaven.

Sil: 01:49:19

And then from there it's like.

Sil: 01:49:21

I don't know.

Sil: 01:49:22

Stubble and mustache are.

Sil: 01:49:23

No, actually, I think I do like the mustache.

Sil: 01:49:25

I think it's like clean shaven mustache stubble.

Sil: 01:49:29

And then I don't know where to go with the beard at this point.

Sil: 01:49:33

Well.

Rachel: 01:49:33

Well, he's got like two and a half months to.

Sil: 01:49:36

Opinions may change depending on exposure.

Han: 01:49:39

Crime that they introduced his character with this perfect stubble.

Han: 01:49:44

That fucking contours his face perfectly.

Rachel: 01:49:47

I mean, it is the makeup now of the face ferment, right?

Han: 01:49:51

It literally is.

Han: 01:49:52

And I'm like.

Han: 01:49:53

And then they were like, how about he is just gonna be a clean shaven forever now.

Rachel: 01:49:56

No.

Han: 01:49:57

And he crimed us with the buzz cut and clean shaven.

Rachel: 01:50:03

He did.

Rachel: 01:50:04

He did end up having a lot of stubble in season three, though.

Han: 01:50:07

He had buzzcut.

Sil: 01:50:10

He had buzzcut and stubble, right?

Rachel: 01:50:12

Yeah, yeah.

Rachel: 01:50:14

Because it migrated from the top of his head to the bottom of his face to make up for the lack of volume.

Sil: 01:50:21

I know this is unpopular.

Sil: 01:50:23

I think this is the unpopular one.

Sil: 01:50:25

Well, okay, that one's one of the unpopular Eddie looks.

Sil: 01:50:28

But I think season four and intro to season five, I think that's also another unpopular Eddie look.

Sil: 01:50:35

But I find that those don't get enough love.

Sil: 01:50:37

So endearing.

Rachel: 01:50:38

Yeah, it's like his, he looks like a pretty princess.

Rachel: 01:50:41

Yeah.

Sil: 01:50:43

Prince.

Rachel: 01:50:43

He does his little prince look because.

Sil: 01:50:45

He'S got the like, like the little.

Rachel: 01:50:47

Part and it's just like.

Rachel: 01:50:48

Yeah, no, it's very underrated.

Sil: 01:50:52

But I, yeah, I can't go.

Sil: 01:50:54

I, I, I, I, I hate his season three look.

Sil: 01:50:57

Sorry.

Han: 01:50:58

It's not that he looks bad.

Rachel: 01:50:59

No, no, he doesn't look bad ever.

Rachel: 01:51:01

No.

Han: 01:51:02

Yeah.

Han: 01:51:03

But it's just that I'm attached to him having the longer hair, especially when it falls in his face for some reason.

Rachel: 01:51:13

The season eight little like, forehead tendril.

Sil: 01:51:17

When it, when it made its first cameo appearance in 7:10, I was like, you need to stay.

Sil: 01:51:23

I don't know how, I don't know why.

Sil: 01:51:26

Just take the gel away and let that, let that little curl just.

Han: 01:51:31

They heard us, abc.

Han: 01:51:32

You heard us.

Han: 01:51:34

You heard our cries for help to ban the hair gel and you listened.

Rachel: 01:51:42

No, you know what?

Rachel: 01:51:43

I really think they were listening because, like, we've gotten better tattoo cover up.

Rachel: 01:51:48

We've gotten better hair.

Rachel: 01:51:50

And that is like, mostly it's better.

Han: 01:51:53

It's better color matching for the most part.

Rachel: 01:51:56

There's that there was that one on Eddie.

Han: 01:52:01

And then what the did they do to Oliver in that last episode when he's shirtless?

Han: 01:52:10

He still looks the color matching.

Rachel: 01:52:12

The color matching specifically, much improved.

Rachel: 01:52:16

But the whole of that, that is a crime.

Rachel: 01:52:20

That is a crime against me personally.

Rachel: 01:52:23

My one scene for one take, which.

Han: 01:52:25

I'm definitely not including anywhere, is that I think he's literally covered in foundation because I don't think his skin is that color.

Rachel: 01:52:33

He's too British for that.

Han: 01:52:36

He's like towards Cylin, my end.

Rachel: 01:52:39

Yeah.

Han: 01:52:40

You know What?

Han: 01:52:41

I mean, and it made it look.

Rachel: 01:52:42

Like my skin tone.

Rachel: 01:52:44

And then, like.

Han: 01:52:44

And then when you're shirtless, like, that's paler.

Han: 01:52:47

It gets paler underneath here, folks.

Han: 01:52:50

Like, no, there's no way.

Rachel: 01:52:52

No, no, no.

Han: 01:52:54

That said, no nipples allowed.

Rachel: 01:52:56

That whole.

Rachel: 01:52:57

That whole thing was a crime.

Rachel: 01:53:01

That whole thing was a crime against all of us.

Rachel: 01:53:04

Of course he looked great because it's him.

Rachel: 01:53:06

But the COVID up, the color matching fine.

Rachel: 01:53:12

I mean, it matched his color, but it wasn't realistic to, like, you know, he's wearing a shirt everywhere.

Rachel: 01:53:19

But, like, you had to do all that for one scene?

Rachel: 01:53:24

For one scene?

Rachel: 01:53:26

Come on.

Rachel: 01:53:26

You couldn't have given him a little hospital gown?

Rachel: 01:53:29

Come on.

Rachel: 01:53:29

And then, like, a little peekaboo?

Rachel: 01:53:31

No, please.

Sil: 01:53:33

Because this was.

Sil: 01:53:33

This was for the thirsty men in the room.

Han: 01:53:36

Wow.

Rachel: 01:53:37

Plural.

Rachel: 01:53:38

Plural.

Han: 01:53:40

I also thought that it was a crime that they gave us a shirtless buck scene and didn't let us see his tummy.

Rachel: 01:53:48

Tummy.

Han: 01:53:50

Literally.

Han: 01:53:50

What were we doing anyway?

Han: 01:53:54

Very important opinions.

Rachel: 01:53:56

Okay.

Sil: 01:53:57

I don't know.

Han: 01:53:57

Anyway, corny hour has closed.

Sil: 01:53:59

I'm just gonna say one more thing.

Rachel: 01:54:01

Okay, sure.

Rachel: 01:54:03

Yes.

Sil: 01:54:05

If that tummy was visible, I feel like Eddie would have just jumped them off anyway.

Han: 01:54:10

He would have folded.

Rachel: 01:54:12

Oh, yeah.

Han: 01:54:14

He was already fighting for his life.

Rachel: 01:54:16

He would have folded like that magazine.

Han: 01:54:21

That he was absolutely not looking at.

Sil: 01:54:23

No, he was not.

Sil: 01:54:23

He was just like, this is my shield.

Sil: 01:54:26

This is my way of not staring.

Rachel: 01:54:28

Heteronormative.

Rachel: 01:54:29

Nope.

Rachel: 01:54:30

Heteronormative Weekly.

Han: 01:54:32

I was gonna say this is my homosexual shield shield.

Han: 01:54:35

No gay thoughts can enter here.

Sil: 01:54:37

Nope.

Rachel: 01:54:38

I must outrun the gay thoughts.

Rachel: 01:54:41

Okay, now morning hours has closed.

Han: 01:54:44

Speaking about running the gay.

Han: 01:54:47

We already did an eddie transition, like, 20 minutes ago.

Rachel: 01:54:51

We did.

Han: 01:54:52

I said, are we ready for Eddie?

Rachel: 01:54:54

Oh, I forgot.

Sil: 01:54:54

Oh, Eddie.

Sil: 01:54:55

Freddie Mercury mustache.

Rachel: 01:54:57

Yeah, that's how we get.

Han: 01:54:58

That's.

Han: 01:54:59

Yeah.

Han: 01:54:59

Rachel, Good job.

Sil: 01:55:01

Well, it is horny hours for Eddie.

Han: 01:55:03

I know.

Han: 01:55:04

It is.

Han: 01:55:04

It is.

Sil: 01:55:09

Well, as always.

Han: 01:55:11

All right, who wants to start with this mess?

Rachel: 01:55:16

You can go for it, too, if you want.

Sil: 01:55:17

I don't want to talk about horny hours with Eddie and Shannon.

Sil: 01:55:20

It's gross.

Rachel: 01:55:24

I think they're really cute.

Han: 01:55:27

No, cute as friends, but.

Rachel: 01:55:30

Yeah.

Rachel: 01:55:30

Well, I.

Rachel: 01:55:32

I think I just like the chemistry between Ryan and Devin.

Sil: 01:55:35

It's true.

Sil: 01:55:35

It's so true.

Sil: 01:55:36

Okay.

Rachel: 01:55:37

That is really enjoyable for me to watch, like, them play off each other.

Rachel: 01:55:40

I think that works very well.

Sil: 01:55:44

Horny hours for Eddie.

Sil: 01:55:47

That's it.

Han: 01:55:48

I don't even think it's horny hours.

Han: 01:55:50

Eddie avoiding.

Han: 01:55:52

It's avoiding hours.

Sil: 01:55:54

It's Eddie Shield time hours, I guess, avoiding all the things.

Han: 01:56:02

He cannot make a decision about letting her see Chris because he doesn't trust her to stay in his life rightfully so.

Han: 01:56:13

Doesn't want to confuse him, understandably, but.

Rachel: 01:56:17

Ends up confusing himself.

Han: 01:56:18

Yeah.

Han: 01:56:19

Because he was trying to use it as, like, a distract.

Han: 01:56:21

Because I'm sure she was like, when can I see Chris?

Han: 01:56:24

When can I see Chris?

Han: 01:56:25

And he was like, well, she'll shut the up if I sleep with her.

Rachel: 01:56:30

If I occupy her mask.

Sil: 01:56:32

It's so funny how we get here.

Sil: 01:56:34

You know, we're here, we want to talk about things, but we always, like, end up in bed together.

Sil: 01:56:40

I wonder why.

Han: 01:56:41

How funny.

Han: 01:56:43

It's like, oh, it's almost like he's doing it on purpose.

Han: 01:56:47

Yeah.

Rachel: 01:56:48

And he's all just, like, really just kind of trying to brush it off.

Rachel: 01:56:50

Like, it's a different way of working things out.

Rachel: 01:56:53

And it's like.

Rachel: 01:56:54

It's a good way to not confront stuff, Eddie.

Rachel: 01:56:59

And just like, when I was watching this again, I was just like, I.

Rachel: 01:57:06

And I think it might be, like, a sense memory sort of thing, because it opens up with them, you know, in the aftermath, the afterglow, I guess.

Rachel: 01:57:17

And all I could think of was the Bad omen song by 5 Seconds of Summer.

Rachel: 01:57:22

That's used in, like, so many edits.

Rachel: 01:57:24

Like, the.

Rachel: 01:57:24

Like, some of those really good edits where it's like we go around again, we jump back in bed, and I'm just like, yeah, that's this.

Sil: 01:57:33

Yeah.

Rachel: 01:57:34

And I.

Rachel: 01:57:36

I don't know why.

Rachel: 01:57:37

I just thought it was interesting.

Rachel: 01:57:38

They're, like, the opposite side of the bed.

Rachel: 01:57:40

Like, they are on the foot of the bed.

Rachel: 01:57:42

They are upside down.

Rachel: 01:57:44

Things are not right side up.

Han: 01:57:48

It's almost like that was an intentional choice.

Rachel: 01:57:51

Yeah.

Rachel: 01:57:51

Because we also see that again, just, like, bringing it very forward.

Rachel: 01:57:55

We do see the one time him and Marisol in season seven are intimate is, like, beat for beat.

Rachel: 01:58:04

The same kind of shot here where it's like, it's.

Rachel: 01:58:08

They're just finishing or they're just catching their breath.

Rachel: 01:58:11

And they are also, again, on the foot of the bed.

Rachel: 01:58:14

And it's just kind of like, you want to talk about, like, hamster wheel relationships.

Rachel: 01:58:18

Like, it's.

Rachel: 01:58:20

It's that same thing.

Rachel: 01:58:21

But it's interesting that it.

Rachel: 01:58:23

If we had a nickel, like, it's interesting that it happened twice.

Rachel: 01:58:26

Like, you know, so.

Rachel: 01:58:28

So that leads me to think that there is something to that.

Rachel: 01:58:32

I don't necessarily know that, like, we can pin that down at the moment, but just like.

Han: 01:58:35

I think it's that deep.

Rachel: 01:58:36

I think, but just like an interesting parallel.

Rachel: 01:58:39

I don't know.

Han: 01:58:40

I think it's something that's just there because your brain will look at that and be like, well, that's wrong.

Han: 01:58:46

That's not where you're supposed to lay on the bed.

Rachel: 01:58:51

And I'm just like.

Rachel: 01:58:52

Is it.

Rachel: 01:58:53

Is it supposed to imply, like, a feeling of wrongness?

Rachel: 01:58:58

Or is it.

Rachel: 01:58:59

Yeah.

Rachel: 01:59:00

Or is it supposed to just be.

Han: 01:59:01

Like, with your head.

Han: 01:59:02

Implication not where your feet normally go?

Rachel: 01:59:06

I mean.

Rachel: 01:59:09

I mean, I guess you could.

Rachel: 01:59:11

There's something to, like, the head over heels, but, like, that's obviously not.

Han: 01:59:16

Really.

Rachel: 01:59:17

Applicable in this situation.

Han: 01:59:18

Head over the heels in the room with us.

Rachel: 01:59:21

We're so good.

Rachel: 01:59:22

Yeah.

Rachel: 01:59:23

So he.

Rachel: 01:59:24

He is like, yeah, I feel pretty good about how all that went down.

Rachel: 01:59:28

And it's like, no, honey, you're just distracting yourself and her to, like, cover up what you don't want to deal with it is like, just repress, repress, repress.

Rachel: 01:59:40

I don't want to have this conversation.

Rachel: 01:59:42

So we're going to like, you know.

Han: 01:59:44

And I think the rest of what I have to say about that specifically is going in scene dissection.

Han: 01:59:53

Slow burn.

Rachel: 01:59:54

Yeah.

Rachel: 01:59:55

I do like, though, that we are able to see their connection and the rapport that they have with each other, which is really.

Rachel: 02:00:05

Yeah.

Han: 02:00:05

They're best friends.

Rachel: 02:00:06

Yeah.

Rachel: 02:00:07

And it really.

Rachel: 02:00:10

You can really see how they would have gotten.

Han: 02:00:13

They really care about each other for sure, and they have good chemistry.

Rachel: 02:00:17

But I.

Rachel: 02:00:18

I know.

Rachel: 02:00:18

I'm just saying I like that.

Rachel: 02:00:20

I like when we can see, you know, a character, like someone come back from a character's past, and you're able to see kind of like how differently they act a little bit, because there is that, like, shared history there, and you can understand why they got along, why they became best, like, why they are best friends, why they tried to have anything more than that.

Rachel: 02:00:47

And, like, at this point, like, Shannon kind of knows Eddie more than anyone, and it.

Rachel: 02:00:53

And it's like, becomes like a stark.

Rachel: 02:00:58

It really kind of like throws a wrench in this compartmentalization that we keep seeing coming up.

Rachel: 02:01:07

Because, you know, from the get go, Eddie was trying to compartmentalize his life, you know, work and home.

Rachel: 02:01:14

And then the work kind of blended in with the home when they brought.

Rachel: 02:01:19

When he brought Christopher to the station.

Rachel: 02:01:21

But he's still trying to have that separation between, like, work and Chris and Shannon.

Rachel: 02:01:27

And then she just kind of like throws a metaphorical grenade on everything.

Rachel: 02:01:31

It just like, gets.

Rachel: 02:01:32

It just gets so messy and.

Rachel: 02:01:34

But I.

Rachel: 02:01:35

But I do like seeing that, like, shared history that they have, and it makes sense why they would have been together.

Rachel: 02:01:42

What were you laughing about?

Rachel: 02:01:43

Were you laughing?

Han: 02:01:44

Because you started off that whole.

Han: 02:01:47

That whole thing by saying, I really like seeing a character come back from their past and show how they've changed.

Han: 02:01:55

So I started laughing, thinking about.

Han: 02:01:57

Redacted.

Rachel: 02:01:58

Got it.

Rachel: 02:01:59

I wasn't.

Rachel: 02:01:59

I wasn't getting it.

Rachel: 02:02:01

We can talk about how Eddie is, like, asking Chris, you know, what he kind of what he wants for Christmas because he won't tell him.

Rachel: 02:02:09

And the whole, like, does.

Rachel: 02:02:13

Does Chris think Santa is real?

Rachel: 02:02:15

Comes up a couple times.

Rachel: 02:02:17

And it's.

Rachel: 02:02:19

It's really sweet because we see again that, like, remember that introduction that we got to Christopher when he's like, do dogs think that people are just bigger dogs?

Rachel: 02:02:28

Or something like that?

Rachel: 02:02:29

So we.

Rachel: 02:02:30

We really see, like, that childlike wonder is highlighted again with Chris because he's just like, he's so pure and he's so wholesome, and he has so much faith in Santa Claus.

Rachel: 02:02:44

Right.

Rachel: 02:02:45

And he talks.

Rachel: 02:02:46

He talks about how, like, you know, one time, like.

Rachel: 02:02:52

Like what Shannon was.

Rachel: 02:02:53

Was telling Eddie about, you know, one time Christopher asked for Eddie to come back for Christmas, and Santa brought him to him.

Rachel: 02:03:03

Santa.

Rachel: 02:03:04

And just kind of like, how Christopher is, like, wants.

Rachel: 02:03:09

Wants that same thing again.

Rachel: 02:03:11

And I think Eddie was kind of taken aback by that.

Rachel: 02:03:14

He was surprised by Christopher divulging that information because I think Christopher was, like, really, really young.

Rachel: 02:03:21

Like, we know he was under.

Rachel: 02:03:26

Right.

Rachel: 02:03:27

So it's kind of surprising that I think it just took Eddie aback that Chris really held onto that kind of memory, which makes sense because it would have been a really good one because he asked for his dad to come home for Christmas, and then he came home for Christmas and Santa worked his magic.

Rachel: 02:03:48

So why wouldn't he believe in this kind of Christmas miracle?

Sil: 02:03:52

Yeah, But I also think, like, it has to do with, like, he's asking for something that he didn't think was going to happen.

Sil: 02:04:00

Like.

Sil: 02:04:01

Like, it's like a big wish kind of thing.

Sil: 02:04:04

So, like, he's asking for Eddie to come back, and he did, but I guess it's like, the timing.

Sil: 02:04:11

It's like, whoa, you know, and the other thing is that you're wishing for you as a kid.

Sil: 02:04:17

You're not wishing for toys and all that stuff.

Sil: 02:04:21

You're wishing for your parent to come back.

Sil: 02:04:24

So I think that's also why he was, like, taken aback.

Sil: 02:04:27

He's like, oh, that's a.

Sil: 02:04:28

That's a big, big meaningful wish also.

Han: 02:04:32

Because I think he.

Han: 02:04:34

Eddie tells Shannon that, like, he doesn't ask about her as much anymore.

Han: 02:04:38

Right.

Han: 02:04:39

Because it's been a while, so he doesn't ask about Shannon.

Rachel: 02:04:41

Yeah.

Rachel: 02:04:43

So the fact that, like, Chris just, like, kind of apropos nothing.

Rachel: 02:04:48

Right.

Rachel: 02:04:49

Like, brings it up on himself, like, on his own, means that, like, maybe he does think about.

Rachel: 02:04:55

You know what?

Rachel: 02:04:56

I think this indicates that Chris does think about his mom a lot more than he lets on.

Rachel: 02:05:04

And I'm wondering if a lot of that is because he's.

Rachel: 02:05:08

We know he is a perceptive kid.

Rachel: 02:05:10

And I'm wondering if he doesn't bring it up as much anymore because it made Eddie sad because it's hurtful to his dad and he doesn't want his dad to be sad or feel bad.

Han: 02:05:23

Well, we have precedent for that.

Han: 02:05:25

Yeah, we do.

Han: 02:05:25

Future.

Rachel: 02:05:26

Exactly.

Rachel: 02:05:27

So that.

Rachel: 02:05:29

Oh, that really makes it, like, even more.

Rachel: 02:05:33

Have so much more weight that, like, you know, after Christopher wasn't going to say anything.

Rachel: 02:05:39

Right.

Rachel: 02:05:39

But then only when Eddie prompts him with, like, you know, a Christmas wish isn't like a birthday wish.

Rachel: 02:05:46

You can tell someone.

Rachel: 02:05:48

And it's.

Rachel: 02:05:48

It's that, like, element of magic again.

Rachel: 02:05:50

Right.

Rachel: 02:05:51

That Chris obviously very much has, like, that kind of faith in that he divulges that.

Rachel: 02:05:56

And yeah, I think that just, like, bowls Eddie over.

Rachel: 02:06:01

Just kind of like, this is.

Rachel: 02:06:03

This has a lot more weight than he was imagining.

Rachel: 02:06:07

Which also could be why Chris wasn't telling him what he wanted for Christmas in the first place.

Rachel: 02:06:11

Because I think he said earlier in the episode from the scene where he's putting Chris to bed, that Chris still won't tell me what he wants for Christmas.

Rachel: 02:06:20

It's because Chris doesn't feel like he can tell him, which also might.

Rachel: 02:06:26

So this whole admittance of wanting his mom back and wanting Santa to bring her back to him is probably also just like, another chink in Eddie's armor for him, thinking that, like, he's a failure of a father because he's instilling.

Rachel: 02:06:44

He's trying so hard to provide, like, a good example for his son.

Rachel: 02:06:50

Very different to the way that he grew up.

Rachel: 02:06:53

And yet still you have Christopher, like, holding something back for, like, a good.

Han: 02:07:01

For different reasons, for a good reason.

Han: 02:07:04

Fear.

Han: 02:07:04

It's out of love, like, empathy.

Han: 02:07:06

Love and care.

Rachel: 02:07:07

Yeah, but I.

Rachel: 02:07:09

But I'm sure Eddie sees that and is like, oh, my God, I'm a failure.

Rachel: 02:07:14

Because he's keeping things bottled up just like me.

Rachel: 02:07:20

So that just got way More sad than I ever thought it was watching that episode.

Han: 02:07:26

It's Eddie's section.

Han: 02:07:27

It's always sad.

Sil: 02:07:28

Anyway, like father, like son.

Han: 02:07:30

So Leticia and I were watching the episode, and it's that whole.

Han: 02:07:35

It's the bedroom scene where he's like.

Han: 02:07:37

And I asked Santa for you to come home.

Han: 02:07:41

And he did.

Han: 02:07:42

I was like, damn, Santa shot him.

Han: 02:07:51

I didn't know Santa.

Han: 02:07:54

I didn't know Santa did Christmas like that.

Rachel: 02:07:56

Like, oh, my God.

Rachel: 02:08:00

Listen, Kristen, specify how he got home.

Rachel: 02:08:05

Oh, no.

Han: 02:08:06

Yeah.

Rachel: 02:08:09

That'S even worse now.

Han: 02:08:14

But yeah, to Chris, I mean, it wasn't like, oh, my dad was hurt.

Han: 02:08:17

It was like, I asked for my dad to come home.

Rachel: 02:08:20

It's a Christmas miracle.

Han: 02:08:21

Not the how.

Han: 02:08:22

Yeah, exactly.

Rachel: 02:08:23

Yeah.

Han: 02:08:24

Because he's still a baby.

Han: 02:08:25

He's still a little kid.

Han: 02:08:27

Yeah.

Han: 02:08:28

I don't know.

Han: 02:08:28

Eddie is just a mess.

Rachel: 02:08:30

So with all of what Christopher has said about, like, his wish for, you know, Shannon to come home for Christmas, essentially, that is very much playing in Eddie's head during the entire scene with the bus accident and the Marine.

Rachel: 02:08:48

And he.

Rachel: 02:08:49

Eddie is very much seeing, like, this like, dual kind of mirror of him, I think, a little bit of himself in the Marine.

Rachel: 02:09:01

Same position as someone who was in the army and did have, like one of those, you know, coming homes, but also, you know, twisting it a little bit to, you know, imagine Shannon in that role.

Rachel: 02:09:14

And, you know, it's.

Rachel: 02:09:15

It's what the kid.

Rachel: 02:09:17

It's what the kid really wants.

Rachel: 02:09:18

And so I think Eddie very much understands from a first person point of view, the importance of being there for a loved one or your child.

Rachel: 02:09:32

And from that, from seeing it from a complete, like, third person outsider perspective, but then relating it to his own experience, he's able to really tap into another season theme, that empathy, and I think put himself in the shoes of either Christopher or Shannon and maybe like, a little bit of selflessness and like, okay, maybe I can provide that kind of reunion for my son, you know, and he also.

Rachel: 02:10:04

He does tear up when.

Rachel: 02:10:07

When he sees the reunion.

Han: 02:10:09

Allegedly.

Rachel: 02:10:10

No, at the.

Rachel: 02:10:11

At the play.

Han: 02:10:11

At the recital.

Han: 02:10:12

At the play.

Rachel: 02:10:13

Yes, he does tear up.

Rachel: 02:10:14

Yeah, it's visibly.

Rachel: 02:10:17

Sorry, oh, no, you're fine.

Rachel: 02:10:19

So, like.

Rachel: 02:10:19

Cause Buck's always like, oh, man, those.

Rachel: 02:10:22

Those videos on YouTube always make me cry.

Rachel: 02:10:25

And he just, like, is very, you know, being Buck, very, like, actually crying.

Rachel: 02:10:31

Actually crying.

Rachel: 02:10:32

Very, like, outwardly, like, emotive.

Rachel: 02:10:35

Right.

Rachel: 02:10:35

And he's just like, wiping his little tear and see, I told you.

Rachel: 02:10:39

He's like, oh, he got me good which, honestly.

Rachel: 02:10:42

Honestly, same.

Rachel: 02:10:43

Like, when we were watching it together, I was like, not the both of us just, like, wiping tears out of our eyes at the same time, but, like, so once in that scene, once Bobby and Buck have, like, turned.

Rachel: 02:10:53

Turned around to, like, head back to the engine, there's, like, a longer holding shot on or closer shot of Eddie, and it's just like, you can see his eyes welling up a little bit as well.

Rachel: 02:11:05

And I think he's replaying, like, all of those, you know, memories and empathic feelings.

Rachel: 02:11:13

But it's.

Rachel: 02:11:14

It's interesting because it is very much more Eddie, where he's, like, more stoic.

Rachel: 02:11:20

Right.

Rachel: 02:11:20

And he doesn't want to show it as much, but you can still see his eyes are glimmering with the ghost of his past.

Sil: 02:11:28

No, but I also.

Sil: 02:11:30

I also think that the.

Rachel: 02:11:32

That.

Sil: 02:11:32

I mean, that that scene was, I guess, like, the kind of, like, the cherry on top.

Sil: 02:11:37

Because, like, I think when, you know, putting Chris to bed, he.

Sil: 02:11:42

He was like, okay, this is what my son wanted.

Sil: 02:11:44

And then, like, that.

Sil: 02:11:45

And then the.

Sil: 02:11:46

The scene where the daughter and the Marine are reuniting, I think that was just, like.

Sil: 02:11:52

That kind of cemented it, too.

Sil: 02:11:53

That needs to.

Rachel: 02:11:55

Yeah.

Sil: 02:11:55

Needs to happen.

Sil: 02:11:56

And I think it also kind of, like, maybe, like, take himself out of the situation, you know, with his own feelings about Shannon.

Sil: 02:12:06

Like, he's putting.

Sil: 02:12:07

At this point, he's putting Christopher's needs and wants as he always does, but he's putting them first.

Rachel: 02:12:13

Yeah.

Rachel: 02:12:14

You know what?

Rachel: 02:12:14

I didn't even bring it back around to that.

Rachel: 02:12:16

Still, you make an incredible point.

Rachel: 02:12:18

It's just another example of Eddie putting Christopher first and foremost on top of, like, everyone saying what Christopher needs most is his mom.

Rachel: 02:12:28

And he didn't want to listen to all that stuff until Christopher said it himself.

Sil: 02:12:34

I was going to say, I'm like, I'm glad Karla's not here.

Rachel: 02:12:37

Oh, my God.

Rachel: 02:12:42

Yeah.

Rachel: 02:12:43

And the biggest eye roll.

Rachel: 02:12:46

Yeah.

Rachel: 02:12:47

And, like, again, sorry, that was.

Han: 02:12:49

That was for the last thing we talked about, Carla, and the things that I learned about that.

Rachel: 02:12:54

Oh, my God.

Rachel: 02:12:55

Right.

Rachel: 02:12:55

Exaggerated eye roll that big.

Rachel: 02:12:58

Yikes.

Rachel: 02:12:59

But, yeah, so.

Rachel: 02:13:00

So essentially, you know, Eddie is asking Chris what Christopher wants, and when Christopher tells him, you know, how can he.

Rachel: 02:13:07

How can he refute that?

Rachel: 02:13:10

And.

Rachel: 02:13:10

And then Eddie's like, yeah, Santa's sure gonna try.

Rachel: 02:13:13

So, like, it was just kind of underlined with the whole Maureen coming home.

Han: 02:13:18

This is a great example of how Eddie, Like, I know we say he puts Christopher first, and that's true, but there's lots of different ways to do that.

Han: 02:13:26

And I think one of the greatest things that makes him such a good parent is how he's constantly trying to give Christopher defer as much agency as he can for the age that he is.

Han: 02:13:38

So, you know, I like, think about like, my parents, and I don't think they would have given me like, that much of an input on like, if someone was going to be in my life or not at that age.

Han: 02:13:53

So I think it's really tender and just a great example of how, you know, he talked about it.

Han: 02:14:02

It comes up a lot, but like, it came up at the fountain when Buck is like, I really admire that kid because he wants to do everything by himself.

Rachel: 02:14:09

Yeah.

Han: 02:14:09

And I think it's not just like the CP of it all.

Han: 02:14:12

It's like, you know, he's.

Han: 02:14:14

He's really little, but he wants, you know, he's a kid exploring his world.

Han: 02:14:18

Yeah.

Han: 02:14:18

He wants to explore and he wants to like, feel confident in that.

Han: 02:14:22

And Eddie supports him and makes that happen for him.

Han: 02:14:26

And he is now doing the same thing in like an emotional capacity too.

Han: 02:14:33

He's giving him, instead of him making an executive decision what he thinks is best for his kid.

Han: 02:14:40

He is getting input.

Rachel: 02:14:42

Yeah.

Han: 02:14:43

His kid.

Han: 02:14:44

And giving him the agency to like, have a big say in that decision without like letting him know that that's what's happening.

Rachel: 02:14:52

Right.

Rachel: 02:14:53

No, it's.

Rachel: 02:14:53

It's very, very well done.

Rachel: 02:14:55

So I think.

Rachel: 02:14:56

I think so.

Rachel: 02:14:57

That was a great point to bring up.

Rachel: 02:15:00

So Christopher says he wants this.

Rachel: 02:15:02

He's gonna.

Rachel: 02:15:03

He's gonna deliver as best he can.

Rachel: 02:15:05

And then it's just like even more solidified watching, you know, the Marine return home to.

Rachel: 02:15:10

To his own daughter.

Han: 02:15:15

Hey, where's the fire?

Han: 02:15:24

So the fire is that the firehouse?

Sil: 02:15:29

Isn't it so awkward when your ex wife just shows up, shows up out of nowhere at your employer and just starts reading you the riot act?

Rachel: 02:15:42

Kind of sort of, for someone.

Rachel: 02:15:45

For someone who really wanted to keep all little bits of his life separate.

Rachel: 02:15:51

This is what I.

Han: 02:15:52

Working for him.

Rachel: 02:15:53

This is what I was talking about.

Han: 02:15:54

That stuff up and compartmentalizing everything working.

Rachel: 02:15:57

Yeah.

Rachel: 02:15:59

Shannon throws that little grenade on there, huh?

Han: 02:16:03

Honestly, she is valid for this because.

Rachel: 02:16:05

Oh, 100.

Sil: 02:16:06

Yeah, she.

Han: 02:16:07

Listen, it's implied that she has like, continually tried to like, start this conversation.

Han: 02:16:12

And as we discussed, Eddie keeps waylaying her with sex.

Rachel: 02:16:16

So yeah, that really puts like the onus on him for doing this, for like distracting her.

Han: 02:16:25

So this is like, well, if it isn't the consequences of My own actions.

Sil: 02:16:29

Which is funny because.

Sil: 02:16:30

Okay, I mean, I know we're gonna get into this.

Sil: 02:16:33

Just the line.

Sil: 02:16:34

The.

Sil: 02:16:34

There's a line in there in their whole argument where he was like, oh, is this a transaction?

Sil: 02:16:41

I mean, I don't know.

Rachel: 02:16:42

Who.

Sil: 02:16:43

Who is it a transaction for, really?

Sil: 02:16:46

Because.

Rachel: 02:16:47

Okay, it's.

Han: 02:16:48

Yeah.

Sil: 02:16:48

Okay.

Rachel: 02:16:49

Yeah, yeah.

Rachel: 02:16:50

Shannon just, like, comes in and inserts herself at his place of work, which, like, is very fair because she's like, I need to have this conversation with you, and you keep not having this conversation with me.

Rachel: 02:17:05

And, like, she says, like, he has been icing out her, like, and not return.

Rachel: 02:17:11

He's been icing her out.

Rachel: 02:17:12

He's not been returning her text or calls.

Rachel: 02:17:16

And, like, first of all.

Rachel: 02:17:19

So she just, like, goes up and confronts him, which was a perfect way to do that with the toy drive because there's so many people there.

Rachel: 02:17:27

And it's kind of like a little.

Rachel: 02:17:28

A little more like, under the radar.

Rachel: 02:17:30

However, Buck and Chimney are right there, and they hear all that happening, and they just kind of like, look and what.

Rachel: 02:17:39

Their faces.

Sil: 02:17:40

They're the eyes.

Sil: 02:17:41

The eye emojis.

Rachel: 02:17:43

Oh, my God.

Rachel: 02:17:44

They really are.

Rachel: 02:17:45

They're like, what?

Rachel: 02:17:50

And then brothers.

Rachel: 02:17:52

That's so brother of them.

Rachel: 02:17:54

And then Eddie, of course, is, like, on.

Rachel: 02:17:58

First of all, on the defensive, and he ushers her into the locker room, which, first of all.

Han: 02:18:03

Which Everyone can still see them.

Rachel: 02:18:05

The worst place to have an important conversation.

Rachel: 02:18:08

And it's just like, something.

Rachel: 02:18:09

Something about glass houses or glass closets.

Rachel: 02:18:14

It's so stupid because there's no privacy.

Rachel: 02:18:18

No.

Han: 02:18:19

Now I keep adding stuff.

Han: 02:18:20

Bad.

Rachel: 02:18:20

That's bad.

Rachel: 02:18:23

You know, what's that phrase about, like, don't.

Rachel: 02:18:25

Don't throw stones in glass houses?

Rachel: 02:18:27

Blah, blah, blah.

Rachel: 02:18:29

But it's also like, glass closet.

Rachel: 02:18:31

Anyways.

Rachel: 02:18:31

But it's interesting, though, because that's also where Hen and Bobby have their heart to heart about, like, not having a place to go or not knowing what to do.

Rachel: 02:18:40

So it kind of like, links it to that.

Rachel: 02:18:44

And you see very two.

Han: 02:18:47

Two very different methods of dealing with panic and indecision and fear.

Rachel: 02:18:54

Oh, yeah.

Han: 02:18:55

You see.

Han: 02:18:56

You see someone who is seeking advice to try and work through it so that they can ultimately.

Han: 02:19:03

Like, he was.

Han: 02:19:03

He was always wanted to be with her, so he was just trying to, like, figure out how to, like, get over this fear.

Han: 02:19:08

So he's working towards building, you know, trying to figure out how to get over the fear, and.

Han: 02:19:14

And so he can get back to building.

Rachel: 02:19:16

Building a future.

Han: 02:19:17

A future.

Han: 02:19:18

And then you have two people who got Together when they were teenagers.

Han: 02:19:23

Never learned how to fucking communicate.

Han: 02:19:25

And then spent, like, four years apart.

Han: 02:19:28

Like, they got married, they spent four years apart, and then she left for three.

Rachel: 02:19:33

That's it.

Han: 02:19:34

Right.

Rachel: 02:19:35

So they were barely ever together.

Han: 02:19:37

Right.

Han: 02:19:37

And they were kids, like, when they were together.

Han: 02:19:40

So, like, you don't know how to fucking communicate about this complicated shit, especially.

Han: 02:19:47

Mr.

Rachel: 02:19:50

going to say, like, Homatron: 3000

Han: 02:19:53

No, I wasn't.

Han: 02:19:54

I was trying to think of, like, a good, like, repression.

Rachel: 02:19:58

Yeah.

Han: 02:19:59

Thing.

Han: 02:19:59

But, like, conceal, don't feel.

Han: 02:20:01

I think is, like, a good way to put it.

Han: 02:20:02

Right.

Han: 02:20:03

You know, he doesn't.

Han: 02:20:05

He doesn't want to talk about his feelings.

Han: 02:20:07

He doesn't want to have a discussion.

Han: 02:20:09

He wouldn't have wanted.

Han: 02:20:10

He didn't even want to do it when he, like, came back from.

Han: 02:20:12

He needed a minute.

Han: 02:20:13

And, like, that was fair because, like, he was traumatized.

Han: 02:20:15

He just got shot.

Sil: 02:20:17

Right?

Rachel: 02:20:18

He just needed a minute.

Han: 02:20:20

Yeah, but it's the fact.

Han: 02:20:24

God damn, Santa, why did you do any like that?

Rachel: 02:20:28

I gotta bring you home for Christopher.

Sil: 02:20:30

Santa and God, we could.

Rachel: 02:20:32

We could do this.

Rachel: 02:20:33

We could do this the easy way.

Rachel: 02:20:36

We could do this the easy way, or we could do this the hard way.

Sil: 02:20:40

He was like, you're not gonna run away from this one.

Han: 02:20:43

Oh, my God.

Han: 02:20:44

You cannot run your gay thoughts, but you can't unrun Santa's gun.

Rachel: 02:20:50

Oh, God.

Han: 02:20:53

These two people never learned how to communicate.

Han: 02:20:56

I don't think either of them knows what they want.

Rachel: 02:20:59

No, they don't.

Rachel: 02:20:59

There's so much.

Han: 02:21:00

And there's so much.

Han: 02:21:01

Like, I think they're both very lonely.

Han: 02:21:03

I think they're both very confused.

Han: 02:21:05

I think they both have.

Han: 02:21:08

I know they both have a lot of resentment towards each other for leaving and are trying to work through that.

Han: 02:21:16

Do we see them talking through literally any of this?

Han: 02:21:19

Like, after the first time that they're, like, in the parking lot, were they, like, barely.

Rachel: 02:21:24

No, that's the last time we see Shannon.

Han: 02:21:27

But, yeah, that's barely them grazing the surface of it.

Han: 02:21:31

And then they.

Han: 02:21:32

Then they kiss.

Rachel: 02:21:33

But, yeah, it's.

Rachel: 02:21:34

It's the same.

Rachel: 02:21:35

It's.

Rachel: 02:21:36

We see the start of what Eddie has, like, continued to do where he, like, didn't verbalize, didn't communicate with her, and he just.

Rachel: 02:21:45

They became intimate, like, physically intimate to, like, not have to deal with, like, the emotional, talky.

Han: 02:21:52

Talky stuff and also being lonely.

Rachel: 02:21:55

Mm.

Han: 02:21:56

Right.

Han: 02:21:56

And also, like, that they're remembering that this is their.

Han: 02:21:59

This was their best friend from, like, their formative years.

Han: 02:22:03

And like, you know, it's just a lot.

Han: 02:22:06

It's very fucking messy.

Han: 02:22:08

And it's also on her where she's like, up until the minute you hid me from her son, I thought it was a reconciliation.

Han: 02:22:14

I'm like, did you say that?

Han: 02:22:16

Did you ever.

Rachel: 02:22:17

It was talk about it.

Han: 02:22:18

You could have.

Rachel: 02:22:19

It was her assuming again because of the lack of communication.

Rachel: 02:22:24

So they were both very much looking for, like, different things from their interactions.

Rachel: 02:22:31

Like that, which I can see how it could go either way.

Rachel: 02:22:35

Right.

Rachel: 02:22:36

But also, like, it's so messy.

Rachel: 02:22:39

It's so messy.

Rachel: 02:22:41

Like, like Eddie does.

Rachel: 02:22:42

Eddie does this thing where, like, when he's trying to make a decision or he's trying to do something for himself, it is not a good decision.

Han: 02:22:52

No.

Rachel: 02:22:53

And he just, like, ends up making his life really complicated and messy.

Rachel: 02:22:57

Like, it's very much.

Rachel: 02:22:58

He was initiating this physical intimacy.

Han: 02:23:02

He chose sleep with her.

Han: 02:23:03

Yes.

Rachel: 02:23:05

He's making bad choices.

Han: 02:23:07

Like, he is laying and he has to lay in the bed that he is unmaking.

Han: 02:23:12

I guess.

Sil: 02:23:12

I mean, he's literally.

Sil: 02:23:14

He's literally leading her, like, on.

Rachel: 02:23:18

Yes.

Han: 02:23:19

Yeah.

Rachel: 02:23:19

Yeah.

Rachel: 02:23:20

I mean, it's very much because he.

Han: 02:23:22

Doesn'T know the fuck to do with all of his feelings.

Han: 02:23:25

Yes.

Rachel: 02:23:25

And this is where we see a lot of this paralleling between Bobby and Eddie that is so prevalent in this episode.

Rachel: 02:23:34

Because he's just like, leading her on.

Rachel: 02:23:38

Yes.

Rachel: 02:23:38

Yes.

Rachel: 02:23:39

Thank you.

Rachel: 02:23:40

Because it was the whole hen told Bobby, you know, if you don't see a future, don't pretend to.

Rachel: 02:23:47

And Eddie, I don't know that he sees a future there either because he's just so, like.

Rachel: 02:23:53

I don't know, he's seeing a lot of the past.

Han: 02:23:56

He still hasn't learned his lesson.

Rachel: 02:23:58

No, he has not.

Rachel: 02:24:01

And it's just like.

Rachel: 02:24:03

So he's.

Rachel: 02:24:04

He's kind of like, similar to Bobby, but, like, in a very different way.

Rachel: 02:24:08

He is frozen and Amber frozen in place.

Rachel: 02:24:12

He's stuck in this, like, immovable.

Rachel: 02:24:14

I am going to bring up every single theme.

Rachel: 02:24:17

I'm telling you.

Rachel: 02:24:18

I can relate it back to everything.

Han: 02:24:21

Frozen and Amber, you idiot.

Rachel: 02:24:24

So dumb.

Rachel: 02:24:26

Yeah.

Rachel: 02:24:26

So it very much is that for Eddie because he doesn't know what he wants.

Rachel: 02:24:33

And it's that indecision that is causing all of this turmoil that he's also then putting on Shannon.

Rachel: 02:24:41

You know, I feel like all of.

Sil: 02:24:43

This, the whole, like, grenade, the whole everything could have been avoided if he didn't sleep with her.

Rachel: 02:24:50

Duh.

Sil: 02:24:50

If he didn't just use that to like.

Rachel: 02:24:53

Yeah, duh.

Sil: 02:24:54

To not talk about his feelings.

Rachel: 02:24:57

Yeah.

Han: 02:24:57

But I mean, neither of them are equipped.

Rachel: 02:25:00

Are very healthy.

Sil: 02:25:00

No, they don't know.

Sil: 02:25:01

They don't have healthy coping mechanisms.

Rachel: 02:25:04

No, neither of them.

Han: 02:25:05

But I think that, you know, they did eventually get to the crux of the problem, which is actually never resolved, by the way.

Rachel: 02:25:12

No.

Han: 02:25:13

Which she's like, whatever I need to do.

Han: 02:25:15

She's like, I know that, like, you're in charge.

Han: 02:25:17

You hold all the cards because I'm the one who left.

Han: 02:25:20

Like, she knows that.

Han: 02:25:22

Good.

Han: 02:25:22

She's finally taking accountability because she was not in the last episode.

Han: 02:25:27

But she's like, just name it.

Han: 02:25:29

Just name what I need to do.

Han: 02:25:30

Which I feel like, okay, one hand, valid.

Han: 02:25:32

But like, on the other hand, I feel like to expect him to just hand it over.

Han: 02:25:37

Be like, well, here's exactly what you need to do, and then everything will be good again.

Rachel: 02:25:41

Is just so he doesn't know.

Han: 02:25:43

He doesn't know.

Han: 02:25:44

And also, like, I don't know.

Han: 02:25:47

They're just so emotionally, like, immature that.

Han: 02:25:52

You know what I mean?

Rachel: 02:25:53

I mean, that's kind of it.

Han: 02:25:54

They've never been.

Han: 02:25:55

Well, as far as we know.

Han: 02:25:56

I don't know about her other relationships, but, like, Eddie, this is his only relationship, and it wasn't much of a relationship.

Sil: 02:26:03

No.

Han: 02:26:04

Right.

Han: 02:26:05

So anyway, the crux of the problem is she's like, name what I need to do and, you know, to be forgiven, basically.

Han: 02:26:12

And he's like, I can forgive you.

Han: 02:26:14

I just don't know if I can trust you.

Rachel: 02:26:16

Yeah.

Han: 02:26:16

And that's a huge.

Han: 02:26:17

We talked about this earlier.

Han: 02:26:18

We talked about trust.

Han: 02:26:20

Right.

Han: 02:26:21

And I used Eddie as a comparison who is literally, like I said, he's in trust.

Han: 02:26:25

No bitch.

Han: 02:26:26

With strangers.

Han: 02:26:26

Right.

Han: 02:26:27

But I think it's.

Han: 02:26:28

It's.

Han: 02:26:28

It's even worse.

Han: 02:26:29

Once you do earn that trust and.

Rachel: 02:26:31

You break it, there's almost no coming back from that.

Sil: 02:26:35

Nope.

Rachel: 02:26:36

Almost.

Han: 02:26:36

Very hard.

Rachel: 02:26:38

Very hard.

Han: 02:26:38

Well, and I mean, and I think in this situation, it's very hard for him to, like, try and imagine how he can't trust her again because she literally just was like a no contact.

Han: 02:26:48

Three years.

Han: 02:26:49

Yeah.

Han: 02:26:50

Showed back up, wanted to pick right back up.

Han: 02:26:52

Like, I don't know that I'd ever be able to trust that person again.

Han: 02:26:56

Like, I would need to be in a lot of couples counseling with them probably, if I really did want to build a future with them.

Han: 02:27:03

But I don't know.

Rachel: 02:27:05

That's the thing as well.

Rachel: 02:27:06

It's.

Rachel: 02:27:06

It's that I think one of the reasons that he has such difficulty with this is I'm not sure he can separate.

Rachel: 02:27:16

Compartmentalize the idea of Shannon having a relationship with Chris if that doesn't mean Shannon having a relationship with Eddie, because I think in his head, it is.

Rachel: 02:27:27

It is all or nothing.

Rachel: 02:27:29

So, like, by.

Han: 02:27:30

I'm gonna talk about that in Slow burn.

Rachel: 02:27:32

Oh, oh, okay.

Rachel: 02:27:34

But.

Rachel: 02:27:34

But yeah, I think that's how it makes sense in his head, because it's like.

Han: 02:27:39

Yeah, that's compet central.

Han: 02:27:40

That's.

Rachel: 02:27:41

Anyway, okay, so we'll talk about that in.

Rachel: 02:27:43

In a little bit.

Rachel: 02:27:44

But, like, you know, going.

Rachel: 02:27:45

Going back.

Rachel: 02:27:46

So did.

Rachel: 02:27:47

To talk about, like, Eddie asking Shannon if.

Rachel: 02:27:50

If this is, like, a transaction, what did you want to say about that?

Sil: 02:27:54

Oh, I just.

Sil: 02:27:55

I don't know, because I feel like that could go both ways.

Sil: 02:27:58

That could have been said either.

Sil: 02:28:00

It could be applied to the both of them.

Han: 02:28:03

Either way.

Han: 02:28:04

Yeah.

Rachel: 02:28:04

Yeah.

Rachel: 02:28:05

And it's like him saying.

Sil: 02:28:06

It's like, you're one to talk.

Rachel: 02:28:08

Right.

Rachel: 02:28:09

It's very projecting.

Han: 02:28:12

It's not, like, transactional, but it is.

Han: 02:28:14

Literally, it's a tactic.

Han: 02:28:17

Like, he's using it as a weapon.

Rachel: 02:28:19

He.

Rachel: 02:28:19

He's what?

Rachel: 02:28:20

He is weaponizing it, and it's making him very hypocritical because.

Rachel: 02:28:24

And.

Rachel: 02:28:25

And he's basically calling himself out because he's not ready to have some uncomfortable conversations.

Rachel: 02:28:31

And it's like, he's the one that made the proposition, like, bro, just.

Rachel: 02:28:37

And.

Rachel: 02:28:37

And Shannon is so, like, emphatic about, you know, she.

Rachel: 02:28:43

She is.

Rachel: 02:28:44

She wants to fix things, like you said, like, what.

Rachel: 02:28:47

What can she do?

Rachel: 02:28:48

She's like, I'm here, but.

Rachel: 02:28:51

But to Eddie, it's like, you're here for now.

Han: 02:28:55

For now.

Rachel: 02:28:55

Right.

Rachel: 02:28:55

But it's that.

Rachel: 02:28:57

It's that wanting.

Rachel: 02:28:58

It's that desire from Shannon of, like, wanting to be in it, just like we're seeing with so many other things, like wanting to be in it with.

Rachel: 02:29:07

With someone.

Rachel: 02:29:09

And the whole.

Rachel: 02:29:12

Everything that Eddie's doing to her is making, like, keeping her from Chris is like, making things feel more broken.

Rachel: 02:29:18

And we see that time and time again, that idea of, like, feeling broken, that brokenness with Eddie, and it's just like, no wonder he feels all this stuff.

Rachel: 02:29:27

Like everything's broken.

Rachel: 02:29:28

And just one quick thing about, you know, Shannon ponying up, basically, and saying that she knows that she doesn't have a say in this situation and that she doesn't have the power.

Rachel: 02:29:40

Which is a complete 180 from the last time that we see them in Haunted, which we talked about.

Rachel: 02:29:48

And still, I think it was your point how in that situation, Shannon Was holding all the cards because Eddie needed something from her.

Rachel: 02:29:59

So, like, the status quo has shifted.

Rachel: 02:30:03

And.

Rachel: 02:30:04

And she.

Rachel: 02:30:05

Shannon is very aware of it.

Rachel: 02:30:07

Right.

Rachel: 02:30:08

And that's why she is, like, practically begging for this.

Rachel: 02:30:12

But.

Rachel: 02:30:13

And she says, like, she's following Eddie's lead, but again, he does.

Rachel: 02:30:18

He says he doesn't have the answers.

Rachel: 02:30:20

He doesn't have the answers, but he does have the power, and he doesn't know what he wants.

Rachel: 02:30:24

So, like, Shannon's following his lead, but where are they going?

Rachel: 02:30:29

And that, my friends, is a dead end.

Han: 02:30:33

Rachel, I think you have to go to jail for that one.

Sil: 02:30:40

Rachel, it's bedtime.

Sil: 02:30:41

I think we have to go.

Han: 02:30:44

That was.

Han: 02:30:45

You need to go night night.

Rachel: 02:30:46

That's.

Han: 02:30:48

He.

Rachel: 02:30:49

He.

Han: 02:30:49

He.

Han: 02:30:49

He.

Han: 02:30:49

He.

Sil: 02:30:49

That was.

Rachel: 02:30:50

Yeah.

Han: 02:30:50

No, 100% evil.

Han: 02:30:53

Evil, but so smart evil Rachel.

Rachel: 02:30:56

That entire dire tribe was.

Rachel: 02:30:57

For that pun.

Han: 02:30:58

Literally for that pun, evil Rachel jumped.

Han: 02:31:00

Ridiculous.

Rachel: 02:31:02

Thank you.

Han: 02:31:03

So I did want to compare how Eddie talks about this situation to Shannon versus how he talks about it to Buck.

Rachel: 02:31:12

Yeah.

Han: 02:31:13

Very interesting to see without getting too deep into it, because, like, some of this is all very muddled here.

Han: 02:31:19

Just, like Eddie's life right now.

Han: 02:31:23

We're just trying to pick through it.

Han: 02:31:25

But anyway, yeah, so we see him talking.

Han: 02:31:31

He's like, you're not gonna say anything about it?

Han: 02:31:35

Which is, like, so out of character for a Buck, right?

Han: 02:31:38

Because, like, he sees something, he says something.

Rachel: 02:31:41

He's like, figured it was none of my business, so I won't say anything.

Han: 02:31:45

But Eddie.

Han: 02:31:45

But Eddie, like, starts that conversation because he wants to hear what Buck has to say about it.

Rachel: 02:31:51

He starts the conversation.

Han: 02:31:52

He starts the conversation.

Han: 02:31:54

And Eddie.

Han: 02:31:55

Eddie is, like, way more vulnerable.

Han: 02:31:57

Way more vulnerable with Buck than he is with Shannon.

Han: 02:32:01

And we hear a lot of things that, like, maybe he should have talked about with her, like how he knows that he also left, like, because he hasn't really taken the accountability for that with her.

Han: 02:32:16

It's different.

Han: 02:32:17

We talked about that.

Han: 02:32:18

It's different.

Rachel: 02:32:19

Yeah, right.

Han: 02:32:20

He was still in contact with her and with Christopher, most importantly.

Han: 02:32:24

But, you know, he.

Han: 02:32:26

He brings up a good point, which is like, you know, I got called a hero, and she got called evil, but we, you know, we both left, and, like, again, we already talked about it.

Han: 02:32:36

I'm not going to rehash it.

Han: 02:32:37

But, like, he could have had this conversation with her.

Han: 02:32:40

He could have said this to her.

Rachel: 02:32:42

Yeah.

Rachel: 02:32:43

Wouldn't it be such, like, a point of, like, like, leveling the playing field a little bit for them?

Rachel: 02:32:50

Like, they keep talking.

Rachel: 02:32:52

Like, one of them has the majority of the power at any which time.

Rachel: 02:32:58

And again that goes to like the not on the same page sort of thing, like the equal partners sort of thing.

Rachel: 02:33:04

But like that would have leveled things out or done like so much to do to like help with that.

Han: 02:33:13

And it's just really.

Han: 02:33:14

It's really interesting the way that Eddie talks about it where he's like, you know, and he is perceptive of his son being perceptive or he's like, Chris doesn't know I'm hiding my.

Han: 02:33:27

My wife from my kid.

Han: 02:33:29

And but like he's perceptive.

Han: 02:33:31

So like, I don't know.

Han: 02:33:32

Basically he knows he has to make a decision because he can't the clock do this forever.

Han: 02:33:37

Not just to Shannon, but because, you know, eventually he'll get.

Han: 02:33:40

He'll fuck up and something will happen and he'll be perceptive and see something he shouldn't.

Han: 02:33:46

Maybe.

Rachel: 02:33:49

Oh no.

Rachel: 02:33:55

Oh no.

Han: 02:33:57

But he.

Rachel: 02:33:59

Oh my God.

Rachel: 02:34:00

Wait.

Rachel: 02:34:01

The amount of stuff that he there.

Rachel: 02:34:03

The amount of stuff that he continues to try to hide from Christopher and you know, he's percent just.

Rachel: 02:34:10

Eddie, honey, you smart, but sometimes you real dumb.

Rachel: 02:34:14

You dumb in the emotions.

Han: 02:34:15

What I want to do, I think I will.

Han: 02:34:17

The point that I'm trying to get at that isn't slow burn is that he.

Han: 02:34:20

He says like he doesn't know, like if.

Han: 02:34:23

If he lets her back in to their lives, is he doing it for Christopher or is he do it doing it for him?

Han: 02:34:29

He doesn't know what he wants.

Han: 02:34:30

And the fact that he doesn't know if he wants her is a pretty clear answer.

Rachel: 02:34:36

Yeah, it's fairly obvious.

Han: 02:34:39

It doesn't seem like he sees a future with her, like, as a partner.

Han: 02:34:44

I think it's way less about Christopher.

Han: 02:34:46

Like, I think that was just like a foregone conclusion.

Han: 02:34:49

It was just that, like, he wanted to vet her basically and see how serious she was about sticking around before he let it happen.

Han: 02:34:56

Yeah, but it's just very clear in the way that he avoids having any sort of significant conversation with her or having any sort of showing us any sort of like, vulnerability.

Han: 02:35:12

Vulnerability connection with them outside of sex, which like inherently isn't intimate, like emotionally.

Han: 02:35:20

Just because you're sleeping together doesn't mean you're like being emotionally vulnerable or intimate.

Sil: 02:35:24

It's.

Rachel: 02:35:24

It's that conflation between conflating emotional versus physical intimacy and using one to replace another.

Han: 02:35:35

So I think we see a very clear like, comparison, like parallel between Bobby and Eddie.

Han: 02:35:42

We are shown the differences between these two vastly different relationships.

Rachel: 02:35:47

Yeah.

Han: 02:35:48

And it's like crystal fucking clear when you can compare them, that Eddie is veering the other direction because his fear isn't.

Han: 02:36:00

His fear isn't losing her.

Rachel: 02:36:03

It's.

Han: 02:36:04

It's the opposite.

Rachel: 02:36:06

Oh, yeah.

Rachel: 02:36:07

Mm.

Rachel: 02:36:08

And.

Rachel: 02:36:09

And that kind of makes sense because he's already lost her.

Han: 02:36:12

Mm.

Rachel: 02:36:13

So, like, as far as he's concerned, like, there is literally nothing left to lose because he's lost it already.

Han: 02:36:22

And the rest that is gonna be in Slow Burn because I have things to say about that.

Rachel: 02:36:29

Yeah.

Rachel: 02:36:29

I mean, I think.

Rachel: 02:36:31

I think in just to close out the scene dissection with, you know, after this confrontation, this argument that Eddie and Shannon have, plus everything that we talked about in Eddie's character arc section.

Rachel: 02:36:46

So he does.

Rachel: 02:36:47

He does end up making the decision to bring Shannon back into at least Christopher's life and, like, providing for Christopher, like, the one thing that he wanted.

Rachel: 02:37:00

And because.

Rachel: 02:37:02

Because he kind of knew that.

Rachel: 02:37:03

He knew that he could make it happen.

Han: 02:37:06

And I think he knew that he was gonna do it.

Rachel: 02:37:08

He knew that he was gonna do it.

Rachel: 02:37:09

And I.

Rachel: 02:37:10

I do really like that it mirrors what Shannon was telling Eddie about that one time that she caved and got, like, a 16 foot Christmas tree and put it outside.

Rachel: 02:37:22

Because it just, like, it brings that, like, magic back a little bit for Christopher and that, like, childlike wonder.

Rachel: 02:37:28

And his.

Rachel: 02:37:29

His faith in the universe is unshakable at this point.

Rachel: 02:37:34

I'm not sure that it will be for much longer, so let's enjoy it while it lasts.

Rachel: 02:37:49

So I guess to, like, transition a little bit into Slow Burn at the very end there.

Rachel: 02:37:54

Eddie, you know, watches on as Shannon and Christopher are reunited, and then he goes to them and he embraces them both, like, as a group hug, like, as a family unit.

Rachel: 02:38:06

So, Han, would you like to.

Rachel: 02:38:09

Would you like to start us off with this?

Han: 02:38:13

I'd like to name this sub segment of Slow Burn.

Han: 02:38:18

Eddie versus the compet agenda.

Rachel: 02:38:22

Fitting.

Han: 02:38:23

Like, this is gonna be a regular thing we are talking about.

Rachel: 02:38:26

Yeah.

Han: 02:38:26

With him.

Han: 02:38:28

I don't even know where to start, man.

Han: 02:38:30

It's just.

Han: 02:38:31

It's what we talked about in.

Han: 02:38:33

In the last section, which is how, like, he never even considered letting her back in.

Han: 02:38:38

Into Chris's life without being with her.

Han: 02:38:41

He only saw it because it's.

Han: 02:38:43

It's the whole traditional family roles, how his parents were like, you're gonna get married.

Han: 02:38:47

All of that's still in his head.

Rachel: 02:38:49

Yeah.

Han: 02:38:49

And that was, I think, one of the big reasons why he was trying to distract her.

Han: 02:38:54

Because.

Rachel: 02:38:55

Because for him, it was.

Rachel: 02:38:56

It was all or nothing.

Han: 02:38:57

All or nothing.

Han: 02:38:58

And I don't think he wants to be with her.

Han: 02:39:01

Like, everything that the narrative is showing us, it.

Rachel: 02:39:05

It's a big no.

Rachel: 02:39:06

It's a big no from him.

Rachel: 02:39:07

Dog.

Han: 02:39:08

He loves her.

Han: 02:39:09

He loves her.

Han: 02:39:10

He cares about her.

Han: 02:39:11

But I don't.

Han: 02:39:13

I don't think that he wants to be with her.

Han: 02:39:15

I don't think he sees.

Han: 02:39:16

No, I don't think he sees a future with her other than the like, you know, picture perfect.

Rachel: 02:39:23

He sees the past.

Rachel: 02:39:25

That is the thing that he's holding on to.

Han: 02:39:27

But there isn't again, there isn't even really a past that they were both present for, for very long.

Han: 02:39:32

But also it's just that, like, image of like, that's been, you know, pounded into his head since childhood of like, what a family is.

Han: 02:39:41

Right?

Han: 02:39:42

Yeah.

Han: 02:39:43

And that's how it works.

Han: 02:39:45

Mom and dad, a kid.

Han: 02:39:46

And like, you need to be together.

Han: 02:39:49

That's why they made them get married, like, once they got pregnant.

Han: 02:39:52

So it's just if you look at.

Han: 02:39:56

I sent screenshots to Syl and Rachel earlier.

Han: 02:40:00

I love looking at facial expressions and especially comparing facial expressions sometimes.

Han: 02:40:06

So, like, there is a marked difference between how Eddie is like tearing up at the reunion of the soldier and his daughter and I'm assuming, wife.

Han: 02:40:18

He is like, he's still reserved because he's Eddie, but he very clearly tears in his eyes and he has a little smile.

Rachel: 02:40:25

Right.

Han: 02:40:25

Like a soft, sweet.

Han: 02:40:26

When he's looking at Shannon and Christopher, my dude looks high key miserable.

Han: 02:40:33

Like he is tearing up.

Han: 02:40:34

He's tearing up because he is emotional for his kid.

Han: 02:40:37

And I think he's emotional for her reuniting with him too.

Han: 02:40:41

But he like, low key looks.

Sil: 02:40:45

He looks like he's grimacing, kind of petrified.

Rachel: 02:40:48

Yeah.

Rachel: 02:40:49

Like he.

Rachel: 02:40:50

He does do like a blink, blink, blink, like blinking back tears.

Rachel: 02:40:53

Because I.

Rachel: 02:40:53

Yeah, because it is like an emotional thing.

Rachel: 02:40:56

But what are all of those emotions?

Han: 02:40:59

Because it's like, I'm happy my kid has his mother back.

Rachel: 02:41:02

Yeah.

Rachel: 02:41:02

I'm happy I could make my kid happy.

Han: 02:41:04

I'm happy that she wants to be.

Rachel: 02:41:07

You know, have a relationship with him.

Han: 02:41:09

Right.

Rachel: 02:41:09

Yeah.

Han: 02:41:10

And I think he's happy to have her back in his life because he really cares about her.

Han: 02:41:14

Again, the best friend thing.

Han: 02:41:16

But, ah, my dude.

Han: 02:41:19

Do yourselves a favor and rewatch this episode and pause and look at the difference in his face.

Han: 02:41:25

Like, it is crazy.

Han: 02:41:27

So I don't know if it was like crazy acting choice or crazy direction or just a coincidence or a mix of both.

Han: 02:41:34

I Don't know.

Han: 02:41:35

Yeah.

Sil: 02:41:35

I mean, to me, it gives, like, a foreboding.

Han: 02:41:38

Like, it's.

Sil: 02:41:40

This could only.

Sil: 02:41:41

This could go in so many directions, and it's not just that good.

Sil: 02:41:45

And.

Sil: 02:41:46

Yeah, it can't be happening.

Rachel: 02:41:48

Yeah.

Han: 02:41:49

All of them bad.

Han: 02:41:51

Did anyone let Eddie know that divorce is a thing?

Sil: 02:41:54

Shannon did.

Rachel: 02:41:59

Oh, like, it's.

Rachel: 02:42:03

It's so interesting, though, because he's just like, you know, if.

Rachel: 02:42:08

If he's thinking the best thing, he's putting Christopher first and whatever you would think and an idea would come into his brain that, hey, maybe the best thing for my kid is for his parents to not be together.

Rachel: 02:42:22

But that doesn't even like to be civil, but, like, divorce, but not like, together together.

Han: 02:42:29

But.

Han: 02:42:29

No, he can't.

Sil: 02:42:30

Also.

Sil: 02:42:30

Also.

Sil: 02:42:31

I think traditionally, with Catholicism.

Rachel: 02:42:37

With Catholicism.

Han: 02:42:41

Is that, like.

Sil: 02:42:45

Traditionally with the Catholicism.

Sil: 02:42:48

I think you're.

Sil: 02:42:50

I think there's something about, like, not.

Sil: 02:42:52

I mean, I could be wrong.

Sil: 02:42:53

Maybe it's.

Rachel: 02:42:53

You can't get divorced.

Sil: 02:42:54

Like, you shouldn't get divorced.

Sil: 02:42:56

Like, or you're not supposed to get.

Rachel: 02:42:58

Well, yeah, that's.

Rachel: 02:42:59

That's why King Henry VIII broke from the church and created the Church of England because they wouldn't give him an annulment.

Han: 02:43:07

Ah.

Rachel: 02:43:08

So I don't.

Han: 02:43:08

I don't think it's as frowned upon.

Han: 02:43:10

I think it might also be, like, a cultural thing.

Rachel: 02:43:14

That too.

Han: 02:43:15

Like.

Han: 02:43:16

Well, it just seems like it was really instilled in him by his parents.

Han: 02:43:20

Oh, well.

Sil: 02:43:21

With Eddie.

Sil: 02:43:22

Yeah.

Han: 02:43:22

It could be that.

Rachel: 02:43:23

I think on another.

Rachel: 02:43:24

On another level, it would just be another thing that he has failed at.

Rachel: 02:43:31

Right.

Rachel: 02:43:31

And then.

Rachel: 02:43:32

And then that becomes.

Rachel: 02:43:33

And then that becomes ammunition for his parents to use against him, as if.

Sil: 02:43:40

They are not doing that already.

Han: 02:43:43

So hold on.

Han: 02:43:45

This man and his son.

Rachel: 02:43:47

Hold on there.

Rachel: 02:43:48

Okay.

Rachel: 02:43:48

So if we want to talk about him holding on to this relationship in basically paper marriage only to prove to himself, to prove to his parents that he can do it.

Rachel: 02:44:04

Who is that sounding like that sounds like Buck and Abby.

Han: 02:44:07

They're so fucking stupid.

Rachel: 02:44:11

Very.

Rachel: 02:44:11

I got very.

Rachel: 02:44:12

Like that.

Rachel: 02:44:13

Just the spirit of, like.

Rachel: 02:44:18

Of narrative parallels took over me because.

Han: 02:44:21

It'S like they are both.

Han: 02:44:23

They are both kind of.

Han: 02:44:25

I don't want to say clingers.

Han: 02:44:26

They're both like, hold.

Han: 02:44:27

Hold on past its expiration date.

Rachel: 02:44:30

Yeah.

Han: 02:44:31

But also run.

Han: 02:44:33

They run away.

Rachel: 02:44:35

Yeah.

Rachel: 02:44:36

It's so.

Rachel: 02:44:36

It's.

Rachel: 02:44:37

It's this.

Rachel: 02:44:38

It's this constant tension.

Rachel: 02:44:40

It's this constant tension.

Rachel: 02:44:42

It's this constant pressure, this push and pull of staying.

Rachel: 02:44:47

Running away.

Rachel: 02:44:48

And they always choose, like, the wrong one.

Rachel: 02:44:52

And it's like, no.

Rachel: 02:44:55

Anyway, so sorry.

Rachel: 02:44:56

That just occurred to me, so I needed to say that immediately, but continue.

Han: 02:45:01

What were we talking about?

Rachel: 02:45:02

Oh, yeah.

Sil: 02:45:03

Divorce.

Han: 02:45:04

Divorce.

Sil: 02:45:04

Too soon?

Rachel: 02:45:05

Probably ammunition for his parents used against him.

Rachel: 02:45:09

Yeah.

Rachel: 02:45:10

Great.

Rachel: 02:45:10

That's fun.

Han: 02:45:11

Thought so.

Han: 02:45:13

Well, speaking of Buck, we're gonna.

Han: 02:45:15

We're gonna go back to what Buck has to say about this.

Sil: 02:45:20

Oh, yeah.

Rachel: 02:45:21

Oh, yeah.

Rachel: 02:45:21

Because Buck has opinions, even though he didn't think it was.

Han: 02:45:24

Do you remember a few episodes ago when Buck was, like, pretty much, like, he knew he needed to leave Abby or, like, you know, walk away from that, but he needed, you know, he needed some validation.

Rachel: 02:45:37

Yeah.

Han: 02:45:38

And.

Han: 02:45:39

And he was like, do you think it's weird that I still live in Abby's apartment?

Rachel: 02:45:44

Yes, I do.

Han: 02:45:45

Was like, yes.

Han: 02:45:45

And he's like, me, too.

Han: 02:45:47

Don't tell anyone.

Han: 02:45:48

So I immediately thought of that.

Han: 02:45:51

When he's.

Han: 02:45:52

He's talking to Jim and it just.

Han: 02:45:55

The way that what he's saying starts, you can tell that, like, Chim has had to put up with, at least however long it took them to get there, of just him talking.

Rachel: 02:46:06

Talking about the Eddie situation.

Han: 02:46:08

Yes.

Han: 02:46:10

And I think that, like, Chimney was like, ooh, let's gossip to a certain point.

Han: 02:46:13

Then he was like, okay, like, you really need to.

Rachel: 02:46:16

Because, again, Chimney is.

Rachel: 02:46:17

Chimney is a Gossip Girl.

Rachel: 02:46:19

And hang on.

Rachel: 02:46:20

Do we.

Rachel: 02:46:21

Do we see them tree shopping before Shannon comes to the station or after?

Rachel: 02:46:27

I forget.

Sil: 02:46:30

After.

Rachel: 02:46:31

Okay.

Han: 02:46:32

Because I don't think Buck knew.

Rachel: 02:46:33

Yeah.

Rachel: 02:46:34

Okay.

Han: 02:46:35

I don't think any of them knew.

Rachel: 02:46:36

No, because that's why he was.

Rachel: 02:46:38

Because Eddie keeps things.

Han: 02:46:41

Okay.

Rachel: 02:46:41

Right.

Rachel: 02:46:41

Now I remember.

Rachel: 02:46:42

Thank you.

Han: 02:46:43

And then obviously they, like, went into the glass closet to talk where everyone could see them and probably hear them because it's only glass anyway.

Rachel: 02:46:53

And Eddie, like, checks the doors, too.

Rachel: 02:46:55

Like, closes all.

Han: 02:46:56

It's like, no one can see us.

Rachel: 02:47:00

Well, they can't hear them, probably, but they can.

Han: 02:47:02

Definitely effective as putting all the gay thoughts behind the glass closet.

Rachel: 02:47:08

He was literally putting himself in the glass closet.

Han: 02:47:11

He literally was.

Han: 02:47:12

Oh, my God, I love that glass locker room.

Rachel: 02:47:15

Narratively, metaphorically.

Han: 02:47:17

Anyway, so Buck's talking to Chimney, and he's like.

Rachel: 02:47:19

He's like, she.

Han: 02:47:20

He's.

Han: 02:47:21

He's sleeping with her, but he's lying about it.

Han: 02:47:24

Right.

Han: 02:47:24

Not just, like.

Han: 02:47:25

He didn't mean just, like, lying to Christopher.

Han: 02:47:27

Like, not telling Christopher.

Han: 02:47:28

He meant, like, he's not telling anybody me about it.

Han: 02:47:33

And he took that personally.

Han: 02:47:34

And then.

Han: 02:47:35

And then he's like.

Han: 02:47:37

Like, he's having an affair with his Own wife.

Han: 02:47:39

Isn't that weird?

Han: 02:47:43

So I just thought that was like an interesting kind of little parallel where he's kind of.

Han: 02:47:47

I.

Han: 02:47:47

To me, he's equating, connecting the dots, that weird situation with where he was at with Abby, where it was like he was staying.

Han: 02:47:57

He was, he was staying in a place that he really needed to leave because he was already left.

Han: 02:48:03

Right.

Han: 02:48:03

He was haunting the space.

Han: 02:48:06

And I think he is looking at Eddie with not a lot of information.

Rachel: 02:48:10

Yeah.

Han: 02:48:10

But still going very limited information.

Han: 02:48:13

Weird.

Rachel: 02:48:13

Just what Eddie tells him, which is.

Han: 02:48:16

He'S picking up on the vibes like we talked about earlier.

Han: 02:48:18

He's picking up on the vibes and just the fact that like Eddie and Ian, Buck have gotten close pretty fast.

Han: 02:48:26

And like how much has he heard about Shannon in this point that she's not in the picture?

Han: 02:48:32

Like what else has he said about her?

Rachel: 02:48:35

Well, we, we see that he knows more than we think he does at.

Rachel: 02:48:41

When they're talking about it at the, at the fountain while Chris is going to see Santa.

Rachel: 02:48:47

But it's, it's a very one sided account of it, which is what, you know, Eddie has been feeding him, of course.

Rachel: 02:48:55

So like you said, Eddie instigates this conversation because he's looking to Buck for, you know, as a confidant.

Rachel: 02:49:06

Right.

Rachel: 02:49:07

And Buck very unbuck, like is like I figured it was none of my business.

Rachel: 02:49:11

Chimney told him it was none of their business.

Rachel: 02:49:14

Buck has never been quiet about anything in his entire life except kind of now where I think similar.

Han: 02:49:24

It's so weird.

Rachel: 02:49:25

It's.

Rachel: 02:49:26

It's.

Rachel: 02:49:26

Well, it's very funny because I think you know how like in 201 when we were talking about.

Rachel: 02:49:32

Yeah, like Eddie has kind of like gotten Buck's number a little bit and kind of like understands how to like you know, do do, do, do, do get, get around like some of those defenses sort of thing.

Rachel: 02:49:43

I think Buck has in.

Rachel: 02:49:45

This is Buck's turn to learn a little bit.

Rachel: 02:49:48

So he knows, he knows that if he is quiet, which rarely happens, but again to bring it Back to like 202 and 203, they are able to like.

Rachel: 02:50:01

Eddie allows Buck the space to kind of like embrace those quiet moments of his.

Rachel: 02:50:07

And I think this is kind of Buck's turn to you know, see Eddie a little bit.

Rachel: 02:50:14

Right.

Rachel: 02:50:14

To see him and knows that if he is kind of quiet, Eddie will end up filling that space.

Rachel: 02:50:27

Right.

Rachel: 02:50:27

So it's this really funny like back and forth of like.

Rachel: 02:50:31

I'm not going to say anything.

Rachel: 02:50:32

You're right.

Rachel: 02:50:35

None of My business.

Rachel: 02:50:36

And then Eddie just, like, goes and just, like, spills his guts.

Rachel: 02:50:40

Right?

Rachel: 02:50:41

Because.

Rachel: 02:50:42

Because Buck also gives him the space to.

Rachel: 02:50:47

To do that.

Rachel: 02:50:48

It's for Eddie to yap.

Rachel: 02:50:50

Rare.

Rachel: 02:50:51

The rare Eddie yap.

Sil: 02:50:53

It's like Buck all.

Sil: 02:50:56

All Buck has to do is stay silent, give him a look, and he'll just, like, spill the beans.

Rachel: 02:51:01

That's.

Rachel: 02:51:02

That's it.

Rachel: 02:51:03

Right.

Han: 02:51:03

I wanted to draw a direct comparison to that exact tactic that we see in season seven.

Rachel: 02:51:11

Yeah.

Han: 02:51:12

With the Kim brownies.

Rachel: 02:51:16

Which is okay.

Han: 02:51:18

But, like, contrast how Buck acts like the silent thing until he talks similar.

Han: 02:51:24

But everything else about how he navigates that situation is so different.

Han: 02:51:29

And I don't think it's like, oh, we know each other so much better now, like, maybe a little bit.

Han: 02:51:33

But I think it was just, like, super out of character because Buck is kind of.

Han: 02:51:39

When he gives advice, he's kind of like, does what therapists do where he, like, asks you leading questions instead of doing the Bobby thing, where he's like, this is exactly what you should do.

Han: 02:51:52

Unless it's a very clear cut.

Han: 02:51:54

Like, that's a wrong thing you're doing.

Han: 02:51:57

Like, when it was leading people on.

Han: 02:51:59

Right.

Han: 02:51:59

He's like, you can't do that.

Han: 02:52:00

That's not right.

Han: 02:52:02

So.

Han: 02:52:03

So in that situation, he flat out is like, what do you want?

Han: 02:52:08

Right.

Han: 02:52:08

Which would have been that he.

Han: 02:52:11

Yes.

Han: 02:52:11

Which would have been a thing that would have made sense for him to do here.

Han: 02:52:15

It would have made sense for him to ask a question about, like, why were you hiding it?

Han: 02:52:19

Why don't you feel like you can, like, you know what I mean?

Han: 02:52:22

Like, it just felt.

Han: 02:52:23

The conversation felt so weird.

Han: 02:52:25

And I know that, like, they're still getting to know each other, and, like, that established dynamic isn't, you know, as established 100%.

Han: 02:52:34

But it's still so weird for Bob, like, the whole.

Han: 02:52:37

The way he's talking in that scene.

Han: 02:52:40

It's just they're.

Han: 02:52:41

They're both being so weird.

Rachel: 02:52:43

I mean, that makes me wonder then if, like.

Rachel: 02:52:47

Because they are very similar situations, if, like, he.

Rachel: 02:52:51

In season seven, when he's talking to Eddie about Kim and everything, like, if he is thinking back to this conversation and being like, well, that obviously didn't work out so good.

Rachel: 02:53:04

And kind of like, using that prior experience to help him navigate this one in a way that's more productive as well.

Rachel: 02:53:13

And, like, I.

Rachel: 02:53:14

I do want to point out, like, in this episode, Buck is like.

Rachel: 02:53:20

He's trying to continually validate Eddie, you know, his little, like, quips, like, totally understandable.

Rachel: 02:53:26

Like, never.

Rachel: 02:53:27

Never said you did.

Rachel: 02:53:29

You know, that kind of stuff.

Rachel: 02:53:30

So, like, he is validating Eddie.

Rachel: 02:53:32

He's having his back like he said he would, but he is doing that on a very limited amount of information, which is totally shaken by what Eddie tells Buck next.

Rachel: 02:53:48

Right.

Rachel: 02:53:50

And I think this might be like a turning point in their relationship as well.

Rachel: 02:53:56

That will help in the future.

Rachel: 02:53:58

Like in season seven with Eddie really confiding and really taking in, like, being.

Rachel: 02:54:06

This is Eddie choosing again to be vulnerable in front of Buck.

Rachel: 02:54:12

And I think this is where that, like, you know, okay, so Buck has proven to have Eddie's back on the job.

Rachel: 02:54:20

He's proven to have Eddie's back in regards to Christopher.

Rachel: 02:54:24

This is Buck proving that he has Eddie's back for himself and his vulnerability.

Rachel: 02:54:30

Because I don't think he still has not shared so much about himself without necessarily, like, centering Chris.

Han: 02:54:42

Yeah.

Rachel: 02:54:43

In.

Rachel: 02:54:44

Until.

Rachel: 02:54:44

Until now.

Han: 02:54:45

I think this is such a huge thing that he trusts Buck with.

Han: 02:54:50

With this insecurity, the inline security, this guilt that he has over, you know, re enlisting.

Han: 02:54:59

Right.

Han: 02:55:00

Because he was scared.

Rachel: 02:55:02

Afraid of commitment.

Han: 02:55:03

That he shared that with Buck.

Han: 02:55:05

Yes.

Han: 02:55:05

That he shared that with Buck is like, crazy because they.

Han: 02:55:09

They've known each other for what, probably a couple months.

Han: 02:55:13

Known each other for a couple months.

Han: 02:55:14

And he feels that safe with him, like, trust him that much.

Han: 02:55:18

And I think for Eddie to like, reveal something like that where, like, he does feel like a failure and he has so much guilt and it's something that, like, he's been given shit for.

Han: 02:55:26

From all fronts.

Han: 02:55:28

Right?

Rachel: 02:55:28

Yeah.

Han: 02:55:29

So to.

Han: 02:55:29

So to open up and be like, here's a fucked up part of me that I am ashamed of, but I am trusting you to still care about me the same way and still have my back the same way.

Rachel: 02:55:42

It's something that can.

Rachel: 02:55:44

That can for a lesser, shall we say, profound bond would.

Rachel: 02:55:53

It's something that could still.

Rachel: 02:55:58

I love you guys so much.

Rachel: 02:56:00

It's.

Sil: 02:56:01

It's only one Supernatural reference per episode, not two.

Rachel: 02:56:08

I think we surpassed that.

Han: 02:56:10

We've.

Han: 02:56:11

There's like five blurry wife references.

Han: 02:56:13

We did a ten minute Misha Collins endorsement.

Han: 02:56:18

Not anything like about Misha Collins, just endorsing him as a person.

Rachel: 02:56:23

As a person.

Rachel: 02:56:25

Good person.

Rachel: 02:56:26

Buddy system approved.

Rachel: 02:56:28

Anyways, so it's.

Rachel: 02:56:29

It's this.

Rachel: 02:56:32

It's this.

Han: 02:56:33

The profound bond.

Rachel: 02:56:34

Yeah.

Rachel: 02:56:35

This like, bomb of information that for.

Rachel: 02:56:40

That.

Rachel: 02:56:40

For any less of a profound bond could so easily break it.

Rachel: 02:56:44

Because this is complete.

Rachel: 02:56:47

This is like completely shattering Buck's.

Han: 02:56:50

The pedestal that he had Eddie on.

Rachel: 02:56:52

Exactly Which.

Rachel: 02:56:53

Which goes back to Tim Mynier's quote about how, you know, they.

Rachel: 02:56:59

They wanted to show that Eddie isn't perfect.

Rachel: 02:57:01

And Buck very much had this preconceived notion of Eddie as, like, that Eddie.

Han: 02:57:07

Was trying to project, so.

Rachel: 02:57:10

Exactly, exactly.

Han: 02:57:11

He was conceiving exactly what Eddie wanted him to.

Rachel: 02:57:16

Yeah, but.

Rachel: 02:57:17

But I think we mentioned this in another episode or something.

Rachel: 02:57:21

But, like, because Buck is very intuitive, and even though Eddie, like, does pass the vibe check, I think Buck can also, like, see past that a little bit in maybe, like, a more subconscious way and know that, like, Eddie is just wholly good.

Rachel: 02:57:39

And that's why.

Han: 02:57:41

Oh, he sees that in the way that Eddie is with Christopher.

Han: 02:57:43

Yeah, I think he already saw it a little bit.

Han: 02:57:46

But then seeing what kind of father he is, like, clenched solidified it.

Rachel: 02:57:50

And I think that is the reason why he has put Eddie up on that pedestal.

Han: 02:57:56

That and the, like, you know, you're a war hero.

Rachel: 02:58:01

Yeah.

Rachel: 02:58:02

So.

Rachel: 02:58:03

And it.

Rachel: 02:58:03

And it was a lot of this.

Rachel: 02:58:06

This reputation preceding Eddie.

Rachel: 02:58:09

And, like, also, if you go back and watch this episode, look at Buck's expression when Eddie, you know, says that he ran out first.

Rachel: 02:58:19

And Buck has a very interesting facial journey, like, face journey, that is.

Rachel: 02:58:26

And again, I think I said this in one of the.

Rachel: 02:58:29

One of the more recent episodes.

Rachel: 02:58:33

Oliver Stark went to the Jensen Ackles school of acting because he is not in focus.

Sil: 02:58:39

Right.

Rachel: 02:58:40

And yet you can still very clearly see how this information is, like, washing over him.

Rachel: 02:58:47

And, like, this is.

Rachel: 02:58:49

This is Eddie's surprise to Buck.

Rachel: 02:58:51

So we're talking.

Rachel: 02:58:51

So, like, the whole episode, we're.

Rachel: 02:58:53

We're talking about, like, people surprising people with things that they didn't know or things that they hadn't thought about.

Rachel: 02:58:59

This is what Buck is surprised with from Eddie.

Rachel: 02:59:02

And he.

Rachel: 02:59:02

You're kind of seeing in real time him, like, starting to reframe everything that he knows about Eddie, but also, like, still honoring the fact that Eddie is being very vulnerable with him.

Rachel: 02:59:16

But.

Rachel: 02:59:16

But now Buck's like, wait, I didn't actually have all of that information.

Rachel: 02:59:20

And it still doesn't necessarily change what kind of good person that Buck thinks he is.

Rachel: 02:59:25

He's just like, this is a lot deeper than I thought.

Han: 02:59:31

Would you say that, like, Buck's almost immediate, like, acceptance and just, like, not.

Han: 02:59:36

Not reacting in a way anyone else to that information is, like, the first.

Han: 02:59:41

This doesn't change a thing between us.

Rachel: 02:59:45

Oh, my God.

Han: 02:59:46

Because it doesn't change.

Han: 02:59:46

It does change the pedestal, but it doesn't change how.

Rachel: 02:59:49

It doesn't change anything.

Rachel: 02:59:50

Between them.

Han: 02:59:51

Yes.

Rachel: 02:59:52

It changes the way he understands Eddie's.

Rachel: 02:59:56

Yeah, Eddie as a person.

Rachel: 02:59:58

But Eddie's history.

Rachel: 03:00:00

But it doesn't change.

Han: 03:00:01

He thinks he's.

Rachel: 03:00:02

It doesn't change their relationship.

Rachel: 03:00:04

And again, like I said, like, it is a profound bond because it is so strong and it has proven.

Rachel: 03:00:11

They have each proven themselves to be, like, again, this equal partnership.

Rachel: 03:00:16

And that is why Eddie, like, confides in Buck in the first place, because it's that equality there.

Rachel: 03:00:23

There is no one person holding the power over the other.

Han: 03:00:27

There's definitely.

Han: 03:00:29

And every episode with Buck and Eddie, especially at the beginning.

Han: 03:00:32

So there's these building block themes.

Han: 03:00:34

Right.

Han: 03:00:35

Where they continue to build and deepen and strengthen their relationship.

Han: 03:00:38

But I also think this is like a relationship milestone.

Rachel: 03:00:42

Yeah.

Rachel: 03:00:44

I mean, it's kind of like literally talking about your ex.

Han: 03:00:47

Yeah.

Han: 03:00:49

It's like, it's opening.

Han: 03:00:51

It's opening up and, like, revealing that's inherently, like, what a relationship, like, close relationship is, whether it's platonic or romantic.

Han: 03:01:02

It's like you're showing them, you know, the parts of yourself that you don't like or insecure about, and they will love you anyway.

Rachel: 03:01:09

It's.

Rachel: 03:01:10

Yeah, it's showing.

Rachel: 03:01:11

It's showing the worst parts of yourself and.

Rachel: 03:01:14

And the other person still showing up for you and having your back.

Rachel: 03:01:19

It's literally.

Han: 03:01:21

Mm.

Rachel: 03:01:22

Yeah.

Sil: 03:01:23

Wow.

Sil: 03:01:24

It's what they both want in a relationship.

Sil: 03:01:26

Want once one to have their back, the other one wants for someone to love them anyway.

Han: 03:01:33

So, speaking of trust, I know that I like what we talked about it, but I do have to draw this direct fucking parallel because, like, they did it.

Rachel: 03:01:43

They did it first.

Han: 03:01:44

They did it first.

Han: 03:01:46

We're shown here, like we just talked about for the past 20 minutes, how much trust Eddie is putting in Buck by opening up to him about this stuff.

Han: 03:01:54

What the fuck did he just say to Shannon about how he doesn't know if he can trust her?

Han: 03:02:01

What does he say to Buck next season after.

Han: 03:02:07

I know, after he's going through, like, the worst thing he's ever gone through in his life, and Buck just kind of drops out and he's not there for them and he's angry.

Han: 03:02:17

What does he do?

Han: 03:02:18

It's just.

Han: 03:02:20

Don't do it again.

Han: 03:02:21

Of course I forgive you.

Rachel: 03:02:23

Yeah.

Han: 03:02:24

Immediately back to how they were like.

Rachel: 03:02:26

And.

Rachel: 03:02:27

And it's.

Rachel: 03:02:27

And it's Eddie who is so.

Rachel: 03:02:29

Because it's established here first, Eddie can forgive, but his trust has to be earned again and again.

Rachel: 03:02:41

Right.

Rachel: 03:02:42

If it's broken.

Rachel: 03:02:43

Right.

Rachel: 03:02:44

Trust was broken.

Rachel: 03:02:45

Has to earn that trust back again.

Rachel: 03:02:48

And he doesn't.

Rachel: 03:02:49

And he doesn't know that he can trust Shannon again, even though she is insisting that she is there and she's not going to go anywhere.

Rachel: 03:02:56

And he's still like, I don't know.

Rachel: 03:02:57

But then with Buck later on, it's just like, of course I forgive you.

Rachel: 03:03:01

Of course I trust you.

Rachel: 03:03:02

Like, and I'm sure it.

Han: 03:03:05

Again, like, talk to me next time.

Han: 03:03:06

Like, what, literally communicate.

Han: 03:03:09

Yeah.

Rachel: 03:03:09

What, Mr.

Rachel: 03:03:11

Hypocrite?

Rachel: 03:03:12

A little bit.

Rachel: 03:03:13

But because.

Han: 03:03:14

Because honestly, it was more like it wasn't even like he was really mad at Buck.

Han: 03:03:19

It was everything else that was going on.

Rachel: 03:03:21

Yeah.

Han: 03:03:21

It was just that, like, Buck was the outlet that.

Han: 03:03:25

That got all that anger and he felt abandoned and he had already been left, so.

Rachel: 03:03:30

Yeah.

Han: 03:03:31

But I think he saw like in the grocery store how Buck, like, literally was just so spiraling so badly trying to get back there that he didn't even like, realize that he had dropped off the face of the earth.

Han: 03:03:42

And he immediately, like, showed remorse and like, oh my God, no, I want to be there for Christopher.

Han: 03:03:48

Like, yeah, we can make that happen.

Han: 03:03:50

It's just.

Han: 03:03:51

It's just completely different.

Han: 03:03:52

Like we always see him.

Han: 03:03:55

The trust is just so implicit with them.

Han: 03:03:57

Like, even when they fight, even when they're on the outs, it takes nothing, nothing, literally nothing to get back on the same page for him to let Buck back in right where he was before.

Rachel: 03:04:08

And it's just so interesting too, that again, I know that is that particular scene that we're talking about at the moment is in season three.

Rachel: 03:04:16

But it's so interesting that we have in the two episodes so far that we see Shannon, we have in Haunted207, we have the you didn't have my back parallel to the 201.

Rachel: 03:04:33

You can have my back any day.

Rachel: 03:04:34

And then in the second episode, we see Shannon.

Rachel: 03:04:37

We're talking about like forgiveness and trust and how it's not implicit with Eddie and Shannon.

Rachel: 03:04:44

And then a season later, it's so freely given by Eddie for such a similar thing.

Rachel: 03:04:51

I'm sorry, if.

Rachel: 03:04:53

If not deliberate parallel, why?

Han: 03:04:58

Oh, that's so on purpose.

Han: 03:04:59

Because they do this shit, like word for word.

Rachel: 03:05:00

Exactly.

Han: 03:05:01

And you know what I mean.

Rachel: 03:05:04

The stuff with Buck and Shannon specifically though, are some of the most direct parallels that we get out of all of the show.

Rachel: 03:05:13

Like, there are a lot of parallels.

Rachel: 03:05:14

I mean, it's a long show, so they end up paralleling a lot of things.

Rachel: 03:05:18

But some of the most, like, viscerally exact dialogue for some of these Parallels are between Buck and Shannon.

Rachel: 03:05:28

And most of the time it's more like a paraphrasing sort of thing.

Rachel: 03:05:31

Right.

Rachel: 03:05:32

I mean, we can talk about the stuff with, like, Bobby and Eddie being panicking about the stuff with Instant Family.

Rachel: 03:05:38

That is also, like pretty word for word, which we can get into in a minute, but, like, it is consistently the most precise, exact word for word parallel between Buck and Shannon.

Rachel: 03:05:54

And it's.

Han: 03:05:56

It's the biggest ones.

Rachel: 03:05:58

And yeah, that is so intentional.

Han: 03:06:01

I know for Eddie what.

Han: 03:06:02

What a relationship is to him that he wants.

Rachel: 03:06:07

Mm.

Han: 03:06:08

Mm.

Sil: 03:06:08

And it's funny, and it's funny that we're talking about that because when I was watching the Shannon, you know, when Shannon and Eddie are like, bantering in there after their.

Sil: 03:06:21

Their trace.

Han: 03:06:22

The trist.

Sil: 03:06:23

Their trists, I was like.

Sil: 03:06:26

I was like, I could just put Buck in here and it's the same.

Han: 03:06:29

Thing because he's a yapper.

Sil: 03:06:31

Sexual, because they can like.

Sil: 03:06:33

And like, I mean, Shannon because, like, I feel like because Shannon was Eddie's best friend and Buck is Eddie's best friend, I'm like, oh, my God, they're literally the same fucking person.

Rachel: 03:06:44

Exactly.

Sil: 03:06:45

In a way.

Han: 03:06:46

Yeah.

Han: 03:06:47

No, I know exactly what you mean.

Rachel: 03:06:48

I think when you look at a lot of the personality traits, when we learn a little bit more about Shannon, which we don't know a lot of, but like, sometimes what we get in, like, the flashbacks, I think personality wise, Buck and Shannon are very similar.

Rachel: 03:07:04

So it makes sense why Eddie just, like, gravitates towards each of them.

Rachel: 03:07:10

So that's interesting.

Sil: 03:07:13

Shannon's the exception.

Han: 03:07:16

Oh, also spoiler, Maybe preview, not spoiler, because I think the next episode is our astrology one.

Han: 03:07:22

But spoiler alert, Buck is a Libra son, and I believe Shannon is too.

Han: 03:07:29

So you're right.

Han: 03:07:31

It's on her gravestone, right?

Rachel: 03:07:33

Yeah, it's an October date.

Rachel: 03:07:35

I forget.

Han: 03:07:35

Anyway, crazy that he has such a specific type.

Rachel: 03:07:38

Oh, that's interesting.

Rachel: 03:07:40

Wait, that's very.

Rachel: 03:07:41

Ooh, that's very interesting.

Rachel: 03:07:42

Okay, we're gonna have to bring that up in the episode.

Rachel: 03:07:45

Yeah, yeah, but it's just like.

Rachel: 03:07:47

Yeah.

Rachel: 03:07:48

When you think about it, when you look at Shannon, what we know of as a character, not necessarily as a mother, but her personality of it all.

Rachel: 03:07:57

Like what we got from the deleted scene from season seven where Eddie's talking to Chris about it.

Rachel: 03:08:03

It just seems like, honestly, I really.

Rachel: 03:08:06

I really love fix where Shannon is still alive and like, because I think Shannon and Buck would get along really well.

Rachel: 03:08:14

Yeah, that's like a fun thought.

Rachel: 03:08:17

Experiment that I like to.

Rachel: 03:08:19

That I like to live in.

Han: 03:08:20

So, yeah, getting back to that parallel with one of the parallels between Bobby and Eddie, there's so many.

Han: 03:08:30

But specifically the fear of an instant family.

Han: 03:08:34

Right.

Han: 03:08:35

Athena brings that up, right.

Han: 03:08:38

That she thinks that's, like, part of the problem.

Han: 03:08:40

And it, like, is in a way, but not in the way that she is imagining.

Han: 03:08:45

For Bobby, it's the fear of.

Han: 03:08:47

He wants that family, but he fears losing it.

Rachel: 03:08:51

Yes.

Han: 03:08:51

Right.

Rachel: 03:08:52

For Eddie, the fear is in the.

Han: 03:08:55

Having location of an instant family.

Han: 03:08:58

He literally is so dramatic about it.

Han: 03:09:00

He feels like he's dying.

Rachel: 03:09:03

And.

Rachel: 03:09:04

And again, this is looking forward to, like, season five.

Rachel: 03:09:06

Yeah.

Han: 03:09:07

He's like, oh, my God, they implied that a woman that I'm married to.

Han: 03:09:13

Heart attack.

Han: 03:09:14

He has panic attacks when he thinks about starting a family with the women he's dating in serious relationships with serious.

Han: 03:09:21

Like, the.

Rachel: 03:09:21

And they use they.

Rachel: 03:09:23

Again, talking about, like, very direct parallels.

Rachel: 03:09:25

They do use the word instantly, the word.

Rachel: 03:09:29

He was panicking at the idea of an instant family.

Rachel: 03:09:32

So it's like, how can we not tie this back to this episode?

Rachel: 03:09:38

It's really laying the groundwork.

Rachel: 03:09:40

And just like another.

Rachel: 03:09:42

Another reason why Bobby and Eddie are often parallels.

Rachel: 03:09:46

Sometimes they're mirrors.

Rachel: 03:09:48

Because, again, like, this is showing, like, two very different scenarios.

Rachel: 03:09:51

Like, two different ways that you could.

Rachel: 03:09:54

Two different paths that diverge from the same one.

Han: 03:09:57

On the surface level, you're showing instant family fear.

Han: 03:10:00

Fear of losing family.

Han: 03:10:01

Instant family fear.

Han: 03:10:03

Fear of being with a woman.

Han: 03:10:05

Like, I don't know how else to swing that for you.

Han: 03:10:08

Because it isn't just.

Han: 03:10:10

It isn't just Anna.

Han: 03:10:12

It's Shannon.

Han: 03:10:13

We're seeing it in this episode, even though they're already a family, but they haven't really been.

Han: 03:10:18

That's what we keep saying.

Han: 03:10:19

They're married, they're a family, but they really haven't.

Rachel: 03:10:21

It's like, in name only.

Rachel: 03:10:23

Not in the way that, like, it feels.

Rachel: 03:10:25

And it's like, when it's like.

Han: 03:10:28

But he's like, well, I can't run away, and this is just gonna be it.

Han: 03:10:32

And now I'm stuck.

Han: 03:10:33

Right.

Rachel: 03:10:34

Stuck again.

Han: 03:10:35

And then we see it again with Marisol, just in a different way.

Rachel: 03:10:39

It's a slightly different way with Marisol, but it's just like, when you compare that idea of instant family, of having this person so significant to Eddie and so significant to Chris and just taking this really pivotal role in both of their lives, it's like, well, Buck already inhabits that position, and it doesn't freak Eddie out.

Rachel: 03:11:09

Like, it does so like, so when.

Rachel: 03:11:12

So when you seem to have a.

Han: 03:11:13

Problem committing to some things.

Rachel: 03:11:15

So when.

Rachel: 03:11:16

When you look at all of those examples.

Rachel: 03:11:17

Right.

Rachel: 03:11:18

What is the common denominator?

Rachel: 03:11:20

Right.

Rachel: 03:11:21

Because he.

Rachel: 03:11:22

He is so, like, off put by the idea of instant family.

Rachel: 03:11:27

With Shannon, with Anna, with Marisol, not with Buck.

Rachel: 03:11:32

What is the common denominator here?

Rachel: 03:11:34

And it's the fact that they're women.

Han: 03:11:37

I'm so sorry.

Han: 03:11:38

I just realized that Bobby was either being really shady when he said, you don't have a problem committing to some things.

Han: 03:11:43

And he lists the things and then pauses and is like, shannon was that shade.

Rachel: 03:11:51

I'd have to rewatch that scene.

Rachel: 03:11:53

Was that.

Sil: 03:11:55

Wait, was that after what.

Han: 03:11:58

What season was that?

Sil: 03:11:59

Seven.

Rachel: 03:11:59

Seven.

Sil: 03:12:01

Maybe it's paper.

Sil: 03:12:02

Was it?

Han: 03:12:03

Yeah.

Rachel: 03:12:03

Yeah, because where's it?

Han: 03:12:04

Six?

Rachel: 03:12:05

No, it's seven.

Rachel: 03:12:06

Because Eddie is talking about moving in with Marisol and.

Rachel: 03:12:09

And Bobby's like, I didn't think you guys were that far yet.

Sil: 03:12:13

I think that whole thing is shady.

Rachel: 03:12:15

I think it's payback.

Han: 03:12:16

Yeah.

Han: 03:12:16

That whole thing is trying to, like, push him.

Han: 03:12:19

I think he.

Han: 03:12:20

Well, and I think he's trying to push him, you know, in like, the most subtle, hands off way he can by saying something that he very obviously did have a problem committing to.

Rachel: 03:12:31

Yeah.

Rachel: 03:12:31

It's like one of these things is not like the other, but it.

Rachel: 03:12:35

But it's.

Rachel: 03:12:36

It's also just like a very Bobby thing to be kind of like slightly off the mark.

Rachel: 03:12:39

So, like, I'd really have to.

Han: 03:12:41

It could go either way.

Rachel: 03:12:42

I'd really have to rewatch that and like, look into it because, like, I feel like in that sense, what Bobby is not saying.

Han: 03:12:49

That pause has always felt significant to me before he says Shannon.

Rachel: 03:12:53

Exactly.

Rachel: 03:12:54

Cuz, like, what Bobby is not saying is just as important as what Bobby is saying.

Han: 03:12:59

But isn't Bobby the only one who knows about her asking for a divorce too?

Rachel: 03:13:03

Yes.

Rachel: 03:13:04

Yeah.

Rachel: 03:13:06

Yeah.

Rachel: 03:13:08

As far as we know.

Han: 03:13:09

Yeah.

Han: 03:13:10

That parallel is crazy.

Han: 03:13:13

He already has an instant family with Buck.

Han: 03:13:15

He literally is doing what you would be.

Han: 03:13:18

They're having this conversation at a fountain, knocking knees together while their child is on Santa's lap.

Rachel: 03:13:26

It's literally the conversation that Eddie is not having with Shannon.

Rachel: 03:13:31

He is then deciding to have it with Buck.

Rachel: 03:13:34

And you see, and this is why this is so, like, crazy is because you see how easily Eddie actually instigates that conversation.

Rachel: 03:13:45

Right?

Sil: 03:13:45

Mm.

Han: 03:13:46

It is so easy for him to talk to him.

Han: 03:13:49

He tries to, like, I think he doesn't want to, like, just come out and talk so He.

Rachel: 03:13:53

So he leads it in.

Rachel: 03:13:55

Yeah.

Han: 03:13:55

He's like, you should.

Han: 03:13:57

I want you to make me talk.

Han: 03:13:58

Like, it's okay.

Han: 03:13:59

You can do it.

Han: 03:14:00

Basically.

Rachel: 03:14:00

Exactly.

Rachel: 03:14:01

He allows Buck to lead him in to that conversation because he feel he.

Rachel: 03:14:07

It's a very, like, intrinsic motivation.

Rachel: 03:14:09

He wants to talk about it, but that is the same conversation that Shannon has been begging for him to have.

Rachel: 03:14:17

Right.

Rachel: 03:14:18

And he.

Rachel: 03:14:19

He refuses to have it.

Rachel: 03:14:20

And.

Rachel: 03:14:21

And it's like.

Rachel: 03:14:22

Well, he couldn't just go and, like, get physically intimate with Buck right then.

Rachel: 03:14:27

So, like, what's left?

Rachel: 03:14:30

You know, with.

Rachel: 03:14:32

With taking.

Rachel: 03:14:33

With taking sex out of the equation here.

Rachel: 03:14:36

What's left?

Rachel: 03:14:37

Eddie is able to talk about it.

Rachel: 03:14:40

That is one of those things that, like, Eddie is.

Rachel: 03:14:43

Keeps mentioning about how sex complicates everything.

Rachel: 03:14:46

Look how uncomplicated it is with Buck.

Han: 03:14:50

This is my second to last thing.

Rachel: 03:14:52

Yeah.

Han: 03:14:52

Performing.

Han: 03:14:56

Sorry.

Han: 03:14:56

I'm bringing us back to the Eddie versus the comp head agenda.

Rachel: 03:14:59

It's always.

Rachel: 03:15:00

It will always end up there.

Han: 03:15:02

My brother and Babadook.

Han: 03:15:09

That's gay.

Han: 03:15:09

God.

Han: 03:15:10

Right?

Rachel: 03:15:10

Gay.

Han: 03:15:11

Christ.

Han: 03:15:14

We have that whole scene with that confrontation, right?

Han: 03:15:18

Is.

Han: 03:15:18

Wait, is it.

Rachel: 03:15:19

What?

Han: 03:15:19

Hold on, hold on.

Han: 03:15:21

This is.

Han: 03:15:21

Delete this until you guys tell me what's right and I start again.

Han: 03:15:27

The scene with Maddie and Chimney where she says blah, blah, blah, was a performance.

Rachel: 03:15:32

Yeah.

Han: 03:15:32

Is that right after his confrontation with Shannon or their reunion?

Han: 03:15:38

The reunion.

Han: 03:15:39

It's after the reunion.

Han: 03:15:40

It cuts right from the reunion.

Rachel: 03:15:42

Yeah.

Rachel: 03:15:42

Because we end the episode with Maddie and the flashback.

Han: 03:15:45

Okay, so.

Han: 03:15:46

So they're showing.

Han: 03:15:47

They're showing all of the.

Han: 03:15:50

I'll be home for Christmas.

Han: 03:15:51

Right?

Han: 03:15:52

Showing all of the, like, the family building blocks and the new stones and.

Rachel: 03:15:58

Oh, man.

Han: 03:16:00

And then it's actually not even brought up like, that Eddie isn't there.

Han: 03:16:06

He isn't mentioned, like, at the Bethena house.

Han: 03:16:09

I think it's only Maddie and Chimney get cuts directly from that reunion where I talked about how fucking weird Eddie's facial expressions are.

Rachel: 03:16:19

He's.

Han: 03:16:20

He is not jazzed.

Han: 03:16:22

You could say.

Han: 03:16:22

He's.

Han: 03:16:22

He is not jazzed.

Rachel: 03:16:24

He's not jazzed.

Han: 03:16:25

He's not jazzed about having to perform.

Han: 03:16:29

And then we cut to the Chimney Madney scene, and she's talking about how she loves Christmas, but she, like, started hating it because it was just.

Han: 03:16:40

She had to perform.

Han: 03:16:41

It was literally just a performance of, like, what a happy.

Han: 03:16:44

Like, it wasn't real, basically, is what she was saying.

Han: 03:16:48

We had to pretend.

Han: 03:16:49

Like, I had to pretend that everything was great and we had this great relationship, basically.

Han: 03:16:53

I had to Perform.

Han: 03:16:54

And they do it right after Eddie is standing watching this reunion, like with all these mixed emotions where you can clearly see all these other things that we've talked about.

Rachel: 03:17:04

And then seemingly makes a decision and goes and hugs both of them because.

Han: 03:17:09

He doesn't think he has another choice, as we have said.

Han: 03:17:12

So he's mask back on.

Han: 03:17:15

He has to perform Wolf transition into the scene where they talk about performance.

Han: 03:17:20

And there are Maddie Eddie parallels.

Han: 03:17:22

There are a lot of Maddie Eddy parallels over time.

Han: 03:17:26

But this is one.

Han: 03:17:28

This is the first one, I think.

Han: 03:17:30

Oh, that's for different reasons, obviously, but.

Rachel: 03:17:33

I didn't catch that.

Han: 03:17:35

Performing.

Han: 03:17:36

Oof.

Han: 03:17:36

And he hates it, as we find out later.

Han: 03:17:39

He hates dating.

Han: 03:17:40

It feels like a performance, but he doesn't really date is the thing.

Rachel: 03:17:43

Yeah.

Han: 03:17:44

He's just serial monogamous until he.

Rachel: 03:17:47

Because he doesn't understand that it doesn't have to be that, like, I mean, he and Buck have this very much in some very much in common that they go like and Bobby like 1 to 100 very quickly.

Rachel: 03:18:00

Like when they decide they're in.

Rachel: 03:18:01

They're all in.

Rachel: 03:18:02

When Eddie thinks that he's decided that he's all in.

Han: 03:18:05

100%.

Han: 03:18:06

But I think what I was trying to get at is that because he doesn't really date, he's hopping into these relationships and he's saying dating feels like a performance.

Han: 03:18:13

So being in those relationships feels like a performance.

Han: 03:18:17

Feels like he has to perform.

Rachel: 03:18:18

And.

Rachel: 03:18:19

And then you also just.

Rachel: 03:18:22

Just also having.

Rachel: 03:18:23

Performing.

Han: 03:18:24

Performing issues.

Han: 03:18:26

Oh, my God.

Rachel: 03:18:28

Something, something intimate scenes.

Rachel: 03:18:30

Something, something.

Han: 03:18:31

I wish I could help.

Sil: 03:18:33

Buck wishes he could help.

Han: 03:18:38

Yeah.

Han: 03:18:38

So I feel like the Eddie versus the comp head agenda, the performing, the parallels between his relationships with women and his relationship with Buck and like the stark contrasts and direct parallels that we see between Buck and specifically Shannon because that's the only relationship he puts any merit in any value and.

Han: 03:18:58

Right.

Rachel: 03:18:59

Yeah.

Han: 03:18:59

Some other of his child.

Han: 03:19:00

It was his best friend.

Han: 03:19:01

His childhood best friend.

Han: 03:19:02

It was his first relationship.

Rachel: 03:19:03

It's the only relationship that he puts like real effort into, even if he doesn't really want to.

Han: 03:19:10

Yeah.

Han: 03:19:11

Just crazy, crazy work.

Rachel: 03:19:12

Yeah.

Rachel: 03:19:12

That's wild.

Rachel: 03:19:13

I do want to mention, since we're.

Rachel: 03:19:15

Before we get to our friend the elf, because I think that'll be a good place to end.

Han: 03:19:19

Yeah.

Rachel: 03:19:20

When they're having this conversation when Buck and Eddie are having this.

Rachel: 03:19:24

This very vulnerable conversation over at the fountain.

Rachel: 03:19:28

Right.

Rachel: 03:19:28

And we could say like, you know, hope springs eternal and all of that.

Rachel: 03:19:34

There was a TV line article and I know usually I Bring up press stuff in the jaws of life in our deep dive.

Rachel: 03:19:42

But this.

Han: 03:19:44

This was gay.

Rachel: 03:19:44

This fits here.

Rachel: 03:19:46

This is.

Rachel: 03:19:46

This is a little gay.

Rachel: 03:19:47

Or it can be gay.

Rachel: 03:19:50

So there was a TV Line article.

Rachel: 03:19:53

It's about Tim Mynier talking about the revealing the hidden secrets for fans shipping Buck and Eddie.

Rachel: 03:19:59

And this is wild, wild article title.

Han: 03:20:03

But.

Han: 03:20:03

Okay, when is this from?

Rachel: 03:20:06

This is from January: 2019

Rachel: 03:20:08

So this is before it comes back from.

Han: 03:20:11

But after this episode.

Rachel: 03:20:12

After this episode.

Rachel: 03:20:13

It's in the hiatus after this episode.

Han: 03:20:16

Interesting.

Rachel: 03:20:16

Right.

Rachel: 03:20:17

So the journalist is talking to Tim Mynier, and they're basically talking about how, you know, fans have picked up on, like, this vibe between Buck and Eddie.

Rachel: 03:20:30

Right.

Rachel: 03:20:31

And so the article says, like, Buck spent the earlier part of the season pining over Abby, and Eddie's been trying to make things work with his wife, but that hasn't stopped fans from shipping.

Rachel: 03:20:44

And then it links to this, like, buddy edit on YouTube or something in the article.

Rachel: 03:20:50

And.

Rachel: 03:20:50

And then it continues to say.

Rachel: 03:20:52

So it totally.

Rachel: 03:20:52

It didn't feel totally out of.

Rachel: 03:20:54

Out of the blue when one of Santa's elves mistook Buck and Eddie for a couple.

Rachel: 03:20:59

And there's a quote from Tim which was, I know a lot of people are getting that vibe from Buck and Eddie or between Buck and Eddie, which is why I put that little joke at the end.

Rachel: 03:21:10

And then Tim goes on to say, basically the winsome elf was speaking for the audience.

Rachel: 03:21:16

And I'm not saying that the fountain shooting up behind Buck and Eddie meant anything metaphorically.

Rachel: 03:21:24

You decide.

Rachel: 03:21:26

And I feel like I read that.

Sil: 03:21:27

Before, and I think I had a mental.

Sil: 03:21:30

I think I had a mental breakdown.

Han: 03:21:31

I think I blocked it out.

Rachel: 03:21:34

It recircled its way around Twitter not that long ago.

Rachel: 03:21:38

So he talks about the elf a little bit, but.

Rachel: 03:21:40

And we'll get back to that.

Rachel: 03:21:41

But I just wanted to say the thing with the fountain that people have also, like, kind of caught on with the fountain, like, exploding behind them and also, like, very weird to have in an episode that's.

Rachel: 03:21:53

That's talking about, like, performance and sexual performance maybe in relation to Eddie.

Rachel: 03:21:59

Very interesting.

Rachel: 03:22:00

And for him to specifically say.

Rachel: 03:22:03

I'm not saying that.

Rachel: 03:22:04

That the.

Rachel: 03:22:05

The fountain behind them meant anything metaphorically.

Rachel: 03:22:08

You decide.

Rachel: 03:22:09

I mean, that is a very, like, PR Answer.

Han: 03:22:11

He literally went, which could mean nothing.

Rachel: 03:22:13

He literally said, which could mean nothing five years before, which could mean nothing was a thing.

Rachel: 03:22:19

It's a.

Rachel: 03:22:20

It's a very.

Rachel: 03:22:21

Okay, so, like, it's a very PR Answer to be like, you decide it's up to Your interpretation?

Rachel: 03:22:26

It seemed to me like the journalist was asking about the elf.

Rachel: 03:22:30

And then Tim, in classic Tim fashion, just like shoehorns.

Rachel: 03:22:36

A little bit more buddy stuff in there somewhere and is just randomly talking about the fountain because he probably, he probably saw people talking about, you know, oh, it's a metaphor for da da da da da about it when it aired and then decided to comment on it.

Rachel: 03:22:51

That seems very Oliver Stark coded to me.

Han: 03:22:55

I, well, like I said, apropos of actual father son there with how they talk to the media.

Rachel: 03:23:01

Apropos of nothing.

Rachel: 03:23:03

It's just, just visual storytelling.

Rachel: 03:23:06

Interesting.

Han: 03:23:07

I think that's a very interesting quote.

Han: 03:23:09

When you think about the quote from last year where he talks about how he was intentionally writing Queer Coding Buck as early as season one.

Han: 03:23:20

Listen, I'm paraphrasing because he says two and then implies that like, oh yeah, well, could have been earlier.

Han: 03:23:27

He was intentionally doing it starting season two.

Han: 03:23:31

But like he was like maybe subconsciously before then.

Han: 03:23:34

So I just choose to put one.

Rachel: 03:23:36

That's wild to come from the showrunner and to even like, honestly, honestly, what other showrunner is really talking so candidly about the non canon ship of their TV show?

Rachel: 03:23:51

Not many.

Rachel: 03:23:53

Especially when it is a homosexual ship.

Rachel: 03:23:57

As opposed to, you know, like the will they, won't they straight ships.

Rachel: 03:24:01

So many.

Rachel: 03:24:02

Just wanted to point that out.

Rachel: 03:24:04

Now the other part of that, we can, we can talk about our favorite little Christmas elf before we end.

Rachel: 03:24:11

So Tim was basically saying he put her there as a mouthpiece of the audience.

Han: 03:24:18

Right?

Rachel: 03:24:18

Love that.

Han: 03:24:18

So the mouthpiece of the audience is looking with her eyes and then saying what she sees with her eyes.

Han: 03:24:25

So she sees an adorable kid with Santa.

Han: 03:24:29

She looks over, she sees two men with no personal space, their knees knocking together, smiling, having a deep conversation, looking over very fondly at their son.

Han: 03:24:46

And so she sees gay and she says gay, which is so valid of her and the audience because if we see as gay, we gonna, we're gonna say gay because I'm, I'm sorry, we're just observers.

Han: 03:24:59

I am just looking at the things that you put on the screen screen and drawing logical conclusions because that's how storytelling comprehension works.

Rachel: 03:25:08

Can you, can we be blamed?

Rachel: 03:25:11

No, the narrative leads us there.

Rachel: 03:25:14

We're just following right there.

Rachel: 03:25:17

We're just following the witch's road.

Han: 03:25:20

It's just such a different approach of like how they treated the audience.

Han: 03:25:24

Insert for fanfiction.

Han: 03:25:26

If you want to compare contrast to something treated as a joke.

Han: 03:25:31

Cuz he says, oh, it's a joke.

Han: 03:25:33

But like Is it?

Han: 03:25:34

It's not.

Han: 03:25:36

It's not.

Rachel: 03:25:37

Tim doesn't say.

Han: 03:25:38

He's not making.

Han: 03:25:39

He says, I threw that joke in.

Rachel: 03:25:40

Yeah, but he's not saying, no, the.

Han: 03:25:43

Vibes aren't a joke.

Han: 03:25:44

That's not what he said.

Rachel: 03:25:44

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Han: 03:25:45

The.

Han: 03:25:45

The fan fiction.

Han: 03:25:46

It's like a little wink destiel thing.

Han: 03:25:48

Like.

Han: 03:25:49

Like a joke.

Han: 03:25:50

Like, Jensen Str.

Han: 03:25:54

Fourth wall breaks, like, directly into the camera.

Han: 03:25:56

Like, eye roll, right?

Rachel: 03:25:58

Mm.

Han: 03:25:58

And then you have Timberly Mynier over here.

Rachel: 03:26:04

Bestie Tim.

Han: 03:26:05

I watch the same show.

Han: 03:26:06

I see what the bunny fancy.

Han: 03:26:09

I don't think the bunny chippers are wrong.

Rachel: 03:26:11

For those of you who can't see, Han is literally, like, crying into her hands with that.

Han: 03:26:16

I'm having a nervous breakdown.

Rachel: 03:26:18

It's wild how, like, he says he put that little joke in, as in, like, more of a wink.

Rachel: 03:26:26

Like a nod to the audience.

Rachel: 03:26:28

But he doesn't treat it like a joke.

Han: 03:26:31

Yeah, like, I see you.

Han: 03:26:33

You're not crazy.

Rachel: 03:26:35

Exactly.

Rachel: 03:26:36

He treats it with respect.

Rachel: 03:26:37

Yeah, because, like, Buck just says, like, stands there is kind of, I guess you could say, surprised.

Rachel: 03:26:44

Thinks about it for a second.

Rachel: 03:26:45

It's just like, thanks, and twirls away.

Han: 03:26:48

This is literally, like, the reaction that he had to realizing that he was bisexual.

Han: 03:26:52

He was just like, oh, yeah.

Han: 03:26:54

Makes sense.

Han: 03:26:56

What goes about his day.

Rachel: 03:26:57

Radical acceptance.

Sil: 03:26:59

No denying anything.

Han: 03:27:01

He, like, he literally, for one second went.

Han: 03:27:04

I was like, thanks.

Rachel: 03:27:05

Like, it's like in those 0.5 seconds, were you just, like, daydreaming about it?

Rachel: 03:27:11

What was happening inside that mind of yours?

Han: 03:27:13

What were you doing?

Sil: 03:27:14

It's just like.

Sil: 03:27:14

Yeah, it's understandable.

Sil: 03:27:16

I.

Sil: 03:27:16

I get it.

Han: 03:27:17

Truly, I get it.

Sil: 03:27:18

I wish.

Sil: 03:27:19

I wish walks away, but I guess it's like, I.

Sil: 03:27:25

I mean, to kind of go a little deeper.

Sil: 03:27:29

I guess maybe he was.

Sil: 03:27:31

He was just.

Sil: 03:27:32

I mean, he literally, in that conversation with Nettie, he was just like, I just really admire that kid.

Sil: 03:27:37

Like, I mean, it's like, oh, he's.

Sil: 03:27:40

You know, like, you're saying that this kid.

Sil: 03:27:43

You're complimenting this kid that I really admire and, like, equating him to my.

Sil: 03:27:49

Like, as my son.

Sil: 03:27:50

Like, yeah.

Rachel: 03:27:51

Oh, my God.

Han: 03:27:52

He's like, I would be so lucky.

Rachel: 03:27:54

Yes.

Rachel: 03:27:56

Wow.

Han: 03:27:57

I have one more comment that I forgot to say earlier about Eddie and Buck talking at the fountain, which is that I don't think Buck realizes that he has feelings at all yet.

Rachel: 03:28:08

No.

Han: 03:28:08

But I think that he felt.

Han: 03:28:10

Not just looking at the situation with.

Han: 03:28:12

With him and with Eddie and Shannon and being like, that's Weird.

Han: 03:28:16

I think he felt weird about it for some reason.

Han: 03:28:20

And I feel like that played into how he gave that advice, which was like, well, it sounds like she's already back in both of your lives.

Han: 03:28:28

It just seems like you should get back together.

Han: 03:28:30

Oh, it's none of my business.

Han: 03:28:31

Like, he's just giving advice.

Han: 03:28:33

That seems like the advice that he should be giving.

Han: 03:28:35

Like, he's giving advice, like how he thinks Bobby would give advice or how he thinks that he wants him to be giving advice.

Han: 03:28:41

Like, he's not.

Han: 03:28:43

This is me.

Han: 03:28:44

Like, this isn't me reaching.

Han: 03:28:46

This is me, like, trying to, like, analyze it because it is so just, like, unlike out of character to give advice like that.

Han: 03:28:53

So I feel like he felt some kind of weird way and felt like he couldn't really speak his mind because.

Han: 03:29:00

Because he felt weird about it and didn't know why and couldn't identify it, and so he didn't feel like he could give impartial advice to some extent.

Han: 03:29:10

Something like that.

Sil: 03:29:11

It's also kind of like that trope where person A assumes that Person B is already with the other person that, you know, they want to.

Sil: 03:29:20

That supposedly they want to be with, but they don't.

Sil: 03:29:25

And, like, person A just not being.

Sil: 03:29:28

Not realizing or not knowing that information, that Person B doesn't actually want to be in that relationship.

Sil: 03:29:34

So they're just like.

Sil: 03:29:35

But they just assume.

Rachel: 03:29:36

Well, that also goes for, like, that kind of miscommunication trope that we've been seeing a lot of in this episode.

Rachel: 03:29:43

But also, I kind of wonder if, like, Buck felt on the outs a little bit, because it's not showing itself in the same kind of, like, jealousy that we saw in episode one.

Rachel: 03:29:59

But I wonder if he kind of was feeling a little weird because he's like, well, Eddie's person is back in his life.

Han: 03:30:09

Where does that leave me?

Rachel: 03:30:11

So where does that kind of leave me?

Rachel: 03:30:14

Who's like, this person has become such a big factor in my life, and I feel like I've been.

Rachel: 03:30:20

Become, like, a big person in his life.

Han: 03:30:23

So, like, it's famously insecure.

Rachel: 03:30:26

It's that insecurity about people leaving him again just like.

Rachel: 03:30:31

Or not feeling.

Rachel: 03:30:33

Not feeling wanted because someone else is coming in and, like, superseding his position, which we see in 201, where it's, like, at Eddie about that.

Rachel: 03:30:45

But we also see it again in season seven with Tommy.

Rachel: 03:30:50

And it's.

Rachel: 03:30:51

It's not the same kind of jealousy sort of thing, because I think, well, it's different.

Han: 03:30:56

It's the beginning of their relationship.

Han: 03:30:58

Right.

Rachel: 03:30:58

Yeah.

Rachel: 03:30:59

As.

Rachel: 03:30:59

As opposed to something that's already established.

Rachel: 03:31:01

So he's like, I don't stand a chance.

Sil: 03:31:04

Also, it could also be tied to Maddie and Doug kind of in a way.

Rachel: 03:31:10

The ex is coming back.

Sil: 03:31:12

The ex is coming back.

Sil: 03:31:14

Maddie, Eddie being taken away because, you know, as they're a very significant person.

Sil: 03:31:21

Like they are significant people to Buck.

Sil: 03:31:22

So it's kind of.

Sil: 03:31:23

It could be like that.

Rachel: 03:31:24

That's a good tie too.

Han: 03:31:26

O.

Rachel: 03:31:26

Good catch.

Han: 03:31:27

Yeah.

Han: 03:31:28

Like, I know that Buck wasn't a B or C arc, but he had an arc in this episode.

Han: 03:31:32

Arc was literally just Eddie and Maddie.

Han: 03:31:36

And Maddie.

Rachel: 03:31:37

But like what's.

Rachel: 03:31:38

But like what Sil said those can parallel very much where he's already.

Rachel: 03:31:43

For one or the other, he's already kind of feeling on the outs.

Rachel: 03:31:47

Like he.

Rachel: 03:31:48

Like he doesn't really know that person anymore.

Rachel: 03:31:53

So then he's like, I don't know how to interact with you because this perception that I've had of you is kind of.

Han: 03:32:01

I don't really know you anymore.

Han: 03:32:02

Shattered.

Rachel: 03:32:03

I don't know how to interact with you with this new information and feeling.

Han: 03:32:08

Like it's like his.

Rachel: 03:32:09

His fault.

Han: 03:32:10

He's at fault that like they haven't opened up and told him about whatever the thing is.

Rachel: 03:32:16

Yeah.

Rachel: 03:32:16

Because.

Rachel: 03:32:17

Because of course it would be his fault that like they don't trust him enough to, you know, confide in him, which is then what Eddie does and Manny.

Rachel: 03:32:26

Still, to contrast, Maddie doesn't really do that yet with Buck.

Rachel: 03:32:31

I mean, she has a little bit.

Han: 03:32:33

But just with her person.

Han: 03:32:35

That makes her feel safe.

Rachel: 03:32:36

Yeah.

Rachel: 03:32:38

Uh huh.

Han: 03:32:39

Super interesting.

Han: 03:32:41

Interesting stuff.

Rachel: 03:32:42

Ooh.

Rachel: 03:32:43

There was so much more to that than I thought.

Han: 03:32:46

Yeah.

Han: 03:32:47

I just.

Han: 03:32:48

There's just so much insane stuff to dig into to.

Rachel: 03:32:52

Yeah.

Rachel: 03:32:52

We could literally keep talking about this stuff all day.

Han: 03:32:55

Okay.

Han: 03:32:56

I just really wanted to highlight one of the things that really tipped me off to Buck.

Han: 03:33:00

Being weird in this advice giving.

Rachel: 03:33:03

Yeah.

Han: 03:33:04

Because he doesn't talk like this.

Han: 03:33:05

He's like, Eddie's like, I'm, you know, I'm.

Han: 03:33:08

I'm sneaking around.

Han: 03:33:09

I'm lying.

Han: 03:33:10

I'm lying to my son, whatever.

Han: 03:33:12

And Buck's like, she's your wife.

Han: 03:33:15

You're not breaking any commandments.

Rachel: 03:33:17

When has but ever made like a religious reference?

Han: 03:33:21

What?

Han: 03:33:22

Literally the next one we see is in like season seven.

Rachel: 03:33:26

Really?

Han: 03:33:27

He was just.

Han: 03:33:28

Yeah, that I can think of off the top of my head.

Han: 03:33:31

There's not.

Han: 03:33:32

He's not tied to religion like in any way.

Han: 03:33:35

It's one of the reasons he's way less repressed.

Han: 03:33:39

Like he was repressed in the way that it was comp pet but like.

Rachel: 03:33:44

He doesn't really have a lot of religious trauma.

Han: 03:33:48

He has so much other drama but not religious.

Rachel: 03:33:50

It makes up for it.

Han: 03:33:51

But yeah, it was just like.

Han: 03:33:52

It's just, just so weird, man.

Han: 03:33:55

Just so weird.

Han: 03:33:56

So I think when I watch that, I'm just like, he's just feeling so weird in that situation and it, it, it's just screaming.

Han: 03:34:06

It's just screaming, like developing feelings.

Han: 03:34:08

It's screaming.

Han: 03:34:10

It's screaming the, like not knowing you're gay and then being.

Han: 03:34:14

Feeling weird and not even like knowing that it's jealousy, but feeling weird about your best friend's significant other.

Han: 03:34:22

That is what it's serving.

Rachel: 03:34:24

Well, I think we unwrapped this gift of an episode.

Han: 03:34:29

It might take you all of December to listen to it, but we're getting to you early.

Rachel: 03:34:35

Good.

Rachel: 03:34:36

Because we're probably gonna have a three month hiatus, so.

Han: 03:34:40

Not us.

Rachel: 03:34:41

Oh no, the show.

Rachel: 03:34:43

We will keep you company during this three month hiatus of the actual show.

Rachel: 03:34:49

We will be best friends coming to you weekly.

Han: 03:34:52

Yeah, we got some really fun episodes coming up this month.

Han: 03:34:55

I think we only have one more regular one and we have some specials coming up for Christmas and New Year's.

Rachel: 03:35:04

So we can keep you company during the holidays.

Han: 03:35:06

Keep you company.

Han: 03:35:07

Are there going to be some specials?

Han: 03:35:09

We're going to be talking about Taylor Swift songs and albums relating to characters.

Rachel: 03:35:14

If you haven't figured that from the titles of our episodes that we're.

Rachel: 03:35:21

We're a little bit of Swifties over here.

Rachel: 03:35:24

So if you're interested in that, keep a lookout.

Han: 03:35:27

So yeah, that'll be a fun time.

Han: 03:35:29

I feel like there's a lot of Taylor Swift fans in the fandom, so hopefully you guys will enjoy that.

Han: 03:35:35

And I think that's a wrap on Xmas.

Sil: 03:35:39

Gift wrap with a little bow on it.

Rachel: 03:35:42

Just put us under the tree.

Han: 03:35:44

Just don't put us in a cargo.

Han: 03:35:48

Anyway, plain cargo compartment.

Han: 03:35:52

Remember, don't ship yourself, but if you.

Rachel: 03:35:55

Do, take a buddy with you.

Han: 03:35:59

Thank you for listening to the Buddy System podcast from start to finish.

Sil: 03:36:03

We literally cannot shut up about 911, so please come talk to us on your favorite social media platform.

Rachel: 03:36:09

We are at Buddy System POD everywhere.

Rachel: 03:36:13

That's V U D D I E System System pod.

Han: 03:36:17

Leave a five star review on Spotify or Apple podcasts to get a personal shout out in the next episode.

Han: 03:36:23

The Buddy System is a nerd Virgin Media production featuring music from Divinity.

Sil: 03:36:27

Can't get enough of the buddies.

Sil: 03:36:29

Subscribe to our Patreon for access to exclusive content in our Discord community.

Rachel: 03:36:34

Catch you next time.

Rachel: 03:36:35

And don't forget, bring a buddy with.