If You Live Like That You Live With Ghosts (2x07: Haunted)

Han: 00:00:01

Have you ever watched something that completely rewired your brain chemistry?

Syl: 00:00:05

A procedural network drama might not be your usual pick, but it's ours.

Rachel: 00:00:10

This is the Buddy System, a 911 deep dive podcast hosted by three friends who have DMed each other enough character dissertations to earn a PhD in media literacy.

Han: 00:00:22

I'm Han, coming to you straight from the characters heads.

Syl: 00:00:25

I'm Syl, bringing you to the observation deck.

Rachel: 00:00:28

And I'm Rachel, connecting the dots with my red string.

Han: 00:00:31

With our powers combined, no stone is.

Rachel: 00:00:34

Left unturned and no buddy is left behind.

Syl: 00:00:40

Hey, Alexa, play Haunted by Taylor Swift.

Syl: 00:00:44

Welcome to Dispatch.

Syl: 00:00:45

What's on call this week?

Han: 00:00:46

This week we're discussing season two, Episode seven Haunted, written by Erica L.

Han: 00:00:51

,: 2018

Rachel: 00:00:57

We have some calls of the week, as per usual.

Rachel: 00:01:01

The first one is Dig it on Dig It.

Syl: 00:01:08

I was really confused.

Han: 00:01:10

Half of the audience is not going to get that.

Rachel: 00:01:14

It's a holes.

Han: 00:01:14

That is like the most millennial reference I could actually think of.

Rachel: 00:01:20

If you haven't watched the movie Holes, based on the book Holes, it's very good.

Han: 00:01:25

If you're Gen Z and you have seen Holes and you got that reference, please let us know.

Han: 00:01:31

I'm curious to know if you got that reference.

Han: 00:01:33

If you're cultured and have educated yourself.

Rachel: 00:01:36

from a movie that came out in: 2003

Rachel: 00:01:41

3.

Han: 00:01:42

Yeah, I was obsessed with that movie.

Han: 00:01:45

Oh my God, me too.

Rachel: 00:01:46

It's so good.

Syl: 00:01:47

If you did get that reference, you deserve a senior disc.

Rachel: 00:01:57

Wow.

Rachel: 00:01:59

Are you calling.

Han: 00:01:59

What we deserve is a spot trip.

Rachel: 00:02:02

For calling broken bodies.

Han: 00:02:05

Oh, oh, okay, I got it, I got it, I got it.

Han: 00:02:09

An honorary senior discount.

Rachel: 00:02:11

Yeah, dust off your senior discount card for the local buffet early bird special.

Syl: 00:02:17

Your AARP card.

Rachel: 00:02:21

Okay, let's not insult our friends, okay?

Rachel: 00:02:25

Our buddies.

Han: 00:02:27

Or buddies.

Han: 00:02:28

It's just a number.

Syl: 00:02:30

Whatever.

Syl: 00:02:31

Anyway, let me stop.

Rachel: 00:02:33

But you are in great company because I'm very proud of that reference.

Rachel: 00:02:38

Anyways, Diggity.

Rachel: 00:02:39

Don't.

Rachel: 00:02:40

Oh.

Rachel: 00:02:42

Where two graveyard diggers are swallowed when a sinkhole opens up in a cemetery.

Rachel: 00:02:48

The next one is when a stranger calls.

Rachel: 00:02:51

So a call comes into dispatch from a hiker in distress, but when the 118 come to the rescue, they come across human remains and a hiker who claims he never called 911.

Rachel: 00:03:03

The next one is.

Rachel: 00:03:04

It's frickin bats.

Rachel: 00:03:06

I love Halloween.

Rachel: 00:03:07

And in this one, a cauldron, which, yes, that is the collective noun for bats.

Rachel: 00:03:15

A cauldron of rabid bats infests, haunted corn maze.

Han: 00:03:23

Rachel rolling up with Bat Wikipedia effects.

Rachel: 00:03:28

You're welcome.

Han: 00:03:29

Sorry.

Han: 00:03:29

Continue.

Rachel: 00:03:30

Thank you.

Rachel: 00:03:32

A cauldron of rabid bats infests, a haunted corn maze.

Rachel: 00:03:39

And the last one, Forgive me for this.

Rachel: 00:03:41

Also very, very old reference.

Rachel: 00:03:47

The last call that we see in this episode is the Atreyu and Artax from the Neverending Story.

Rachel: 00:03:53

Real World AU that We Never Wanted, in which a police horse gets spooked at an outdoor Halloween party, and due to the extent of its injuries, it has to be put down.

Rachel: 00:04:06

Also, if you get that reference, pull on up next to us at the Early Bird Buffet special.

Syl: 00:04:15

I actually do not get that reference, so I will not be joining you.

Rachel: 00:04:20

Wait, you haven't seen the Neverending Story.

Han: 00:04:22

She hasn't seen a lot of.

Rachel: 00:04:23

Put that on the list.

Rachel: 00:04:25

Yes, put that on the list because it is so good.

Rachel: 00:04:29

This is the vibes we're going with.

Rachel: 00:04:32

What did you think of this episode?

Rachel: 00:04:34

I find this episode fascinating and also heartbreaking and just so much.

Han: 00:04:41

Every time I rewatch it, I'm like, oh, my God, a Halloween episode.

Han: 00:04:45

And then I'm like, why?

Han: 00:04:47

No.

Han: 00:04:47

This is so depressing.

Han: 00:04:49

This is actually one of the most depressing episodes.

Rachel: 00:04:52

You're like, oh, a Halloween episode.

Han: 00:04:56

TJ was watching it with me as I.

Han: 00:04:58

I'm just, like, by proxy forcing him to watch this show at this point, because I rewatched the episodes, like, at least four times, and one of them is normally while we're eating dinner at night when we record.

Han: 00:05:11

So he was not like he.

Syl: 00:05:13

Normally.

Han: 00:05:14

He's making a lot of jokes, and he did not really make a lot during this episode.

Han: 00:05:17

And then during the horse scene, he was crying.

Rachel: 00:05:21

Oh.

Han: 00:05:21

Which I cry every time.

Han: 00:05:23

I cry every time I watch the horse scene.

Han: 00:05:26

Yeah, but he was crying.

Syl: 00:05:28

I remember I cried, too, when I first watched it.

Syl: 00:05:30

That, like, do not put an animal that needs to be put down in front of me.

Syl: 00:05:34

I will.

Syl: 00:05:35

A ball.

Rachel: 00:05:36

How.

Han: 00:05:37

And it's.

Han: 00:05:38

It's, you know, his.

Han: 00:05:40

His human friend and how he's talking to him.

Han: 00:05:43

That is what kills me.

Han: 00:05:46

And hen.

Han: 00:05:48

Ugh.

Han: 00:05:48

We'll get into it.

Han: 00:05:49

But yeah, it's a.

Han: 00:05:50

It's a really good episode.

Han: 00:05:52

There's a lot of.

Han: 00:05:53

There's a lot of meat.

Han: 00:05:55

I know you hate when I say that, but there's a lot of meat in the character arcs for fucking Eddie separately in this episode.

Han: 00:06:04

Oh, yeah.

Syl: 00:06:05

I'm here for better.

Han: 00:06:07

Kind of like mirroring, paralleling, oppositely.

Rachel: 00:06:12

Yes.

Rachel: 00:06:12

Like, not exponential, but.

Rachel: 00:06:16

What do you call when it's like one goes up, the other goes down perpendicular.

Han: 00:06:22

No pendulum.

Rachel: 00:06:24

No.

Rachel: 00:06:25

It's an inverse relationship.

Rachel: 00:06:28

Thank you very much.

Han: 00:06:37

We're gonna need the jaws of life over here.

Han: 00:06:39

It's time to get deep dive.

Rachel: 00:06:42

Deep dive.

Syl: 00:06:43

Six feet under.

Han: 00:06:44

Dive into the pool.

Rachel: 00:06:45

Into the well.

Han: 00:06:46

Breathe through.

Han: 00:06:47

Breathe through a garden hose.

Syl: 00:06:50

And spit bees out.

Rachel: 00:06:51

Spit bees out.

Syl: 00:06:53

Mouth to mouth theory debunked.

Han: 00:06:59

Oh, we've lost so many times this week.

Rachel: 00:07:01

Oh, but we've won so much.

Han: 00:07:03

But we've also won so much.

Han: 00:07:05

Anyway, this isn't.

Han: 00:07:07

So I don't really know, like, where to talk about the music, right?

Han: 00:07:12

So Deep dive is where it's going to kind of analyze it a little bit.

Han: 00:07:17

So I really want to talk about the song that plays at the end called I Found by Amber Run.

Han: 00:07:24

I didn't get it until tonight.

Han: 00:07:26

Like, I know that song.

Han: 00:07:26

I love that song.

Han: 00:07:27

That's a Destiel song to me.

Han: 00:07:31

So I was, like, really confused about how it was used because to me, it's like a.

Han: 00:07:38

Like a soulmates finding each other kind of thing.

Han: 00:07:43

So, like, in my mind, it's a romantic thing.

Han: 00:07:46

And so I was like, this doesn't really make sense for, like, how it's being played here.

Han: 00:07:51

Like, it's like a positive romantic thing.

Han: 00:07:53

But then I listened to it, like, 40 times while I was getting ready for tonight, and I was like, oh, this is one of those songs that you really can take either way.

Han: 00:08:03

Like, two very different ways.

Han: 00:08:06

So I wanted to talk about a couple of the lyrics.

Han: 00:08:10

The song starts off saying, I'll use you as a warning sign that if you talk enough sense that you'll lose your mind.

Han: 00:08:16

And they repeat.

Han: 00:08:17

If you talk enough sense, then you lose your mind a lot of.

Han: 00:08:20

A lot of times.

Han: 00:08:21

And then I, like, looked up.

Han: 00:08:23

I like to look up things, even if I know what they mean, just to, like, reiterate specifics.

Han: 00:08:29

So talk some sense into is defined as to cause someone to stop thinking or behaving foolishly.

Han: 00:08:36

So the way that it's worded is, like, if you do that enough, you go crazy.

Han: 00:08:43

Like, if you have someone try to talk you out of being foolish enough, like, you'll lose your mind.

Han: 00:08:50

So the song is the opposite view of how I've always looked at it is kind of saying, like, stop trying to do this thing with different.

Han: 00:09:01

Like, expecting different results because you'll go crazy.

Han: 00:09:06

So, like, the I found love where it wasn't supposed to be, which I always thought was super romantic right in front of me.

Han: 00:09:12

Talk some Sense to me, I always took that to mean the opposite of.

Rachel: 00:09:16

What is actually saying.

Han: 00:09:18

Yeah.

Han: 00:09:19

What I assume they're trying to, like, portray in the scene.

Han: 00:09:22

Because they're showing.

Han: 00:09:23

They definitely show him.

Han: 00:09:24

And it's definitely a lot of Buck during this because it's playing while he's doing his voiceover at the end, reading his letter.

Han: 00:09:32

So there's a lot of talking about, like, using a person as, like, they say, a focal point or a gauge.

Han: 00:09:41

So, like, I'll use you as a focal point so I don't lose sight of what I want.

Han: 00:09:45

And I always took that to mean I'm gonna use you as the focal point because you're what I want.

Han: 00:09:51

But in this context, it seems like the opposite.

Han: 00:09:55

Right.

Rachel: 00:09:56

Okay.

Han: 00:09:58

Buck specifically is like, I'm using Abby as a focal point, reflecting on that so that I know what I don't want.

Han: 00:10:05

And starting on, you know, this journey to find out who I am without her.

Han: 00:10:10

I'll use you as a makeshift gauge of how much to give and how much to take.

Han: 00:10:16

Oh.

Rachel: 00:10:17

Oh, wait, that's so good.

Han: 00:10:20

Yeah.

Han: 00:10:21

So, like, great job.

Han: 00:10:23

The song choices are, like, almost always incredibly good.

Han: 00:10:27

So this one, I was like, this was a weird one that didn't make sense to me for so long.

Han: 00:10:31

But it finally clicked for me tonight because I just had, like, bias to, like, you know, pre associating it with something.

Rachel: 00:10:40

It's one of those things where you could, like, look at it on a more surface level and be like, oh, it's super romantic.

Rachel: 00:10:46

But if you dive into it a little deeper, it's like, wait a minute.

Han: 00:10:50

And the tone of the song is in A minor, I think.

Han: 00:10:54

Cause it sounds kind of somber.

Han: 00:10:56

And I always.

Han: 00:10:58

It just made sense for Destiel because of their love story specifically.

Rachel: 00:11:02

Right.

Han: 00:11:03

It just makes sense in that way where it is romantic, but it's heartbreaking.

Rachel: 00:11:09

Like a yearning sort of thing, which isn't right necessarily.

Han: 00:11:13

Like, where it's like, they found love, it's right in front of them, but they.

Han: 00:11:15

But it's like, they can't quite, like, make it work.

Syl: 00:11:22

But.

Han: 00:11:22

Yeah.

Han: 00:11:22

So this one.

Han: 00:11:24

This other interpretation that I'm now associating with Buck, I guess, specifically is the opposite of that.

Han: 00:11:31

And I just thought it was just, like, a really great accent to his voiceover and what's happening at the end there.

Han: 00:11:38

I love when they do that.

Rachel: 00:11:40

And it also kind of works for Hannah as well, because here she has, like, she's saying goodbye to this person who she's never known.

Rachel: 00:11:48

And I think so much of what she and Karen do for Denny or.

Rachel: 00:11:55

Or their kids to do.

Rachel: 00:11:58

Not that.

Han: 00:11:59

Right.

Rachel: 00:12:00

Like.

Rachel: 00:12:01

Like, full pendulum.

Han: 00:12:02

She's using her.

Han: 00:12:04

Her daddy left her as a makeshift gauge of how much to give, how much to take.

Han: 00:12:08

Focal point so she doesn't lose sight of what she wants.

Han: 00:12:11

Yeah.

Rachel: 00:12:12

Ooh.

Rachel: 00:12:13

And I love when they can choose songs that have the same messaging, but meanwhile, so much to, like, multiple characters.

Han: 00:12:22

Yeah.

Han: 00:12:24

Yeah.

Rachel: 00:12:24

That's when you know it's a good choice.

Han: 00:12:27

Even just the chorus where it's like, I found love where it wasn't supposed to be right in front of me.

Han: 00:12:30

Talks and sense to me.

Han: 00:12:32

It's like she.

Han: 00:12:34

She does have love for her dad, even though he left her.

Han: 00:12:39

And so she has to, you know.

Rachel: 00:12:41

Really wrestle with that.

Han: 00:12:43

What I'm looking for.

Han: 00:12:44

Yes.

Han: 00:12:46

Yeah.

Han: 00:12:46

And then for Buckets, obviously very literal.

Han: 00:12:49

I found love where it wasn't supposed to be like, they were not right for each other, but they were in front of each other.

Rachel: 00:12:57

Convenient.

Han: 00:12:58

And finally, like, someone has talked sense into him, which, like, he talked sense into himself.

Han: 00:13:03

But, you know, with.

Rachel: 00:13:06

With a little.

Han: 00:13:07

With a little help.

Rachel: 00:13:08

But a little help.

Han: 00:13:09

I feel like it was just like he was figuring it out.

Han: 00:13:12

Everyone was letting him figure it out.

Han: 00:13:14

And then when he went to them, he already, like, knew, but he was getting the, like, confirmation that.

Han: 00:13:20

Yeah.

Han: 00:13:20

The validation that he was right.

Han: 00:13:22

And I think Carla was kind of like the.

Han: 00:13:26

Like, the tipping point on the head.

Han: 00:13:28

Yeah.

Rachel: 00:13:28

Last nail in the coffin, would you say?

Rachel: 00:13:32

Yeah.

Han: 00:13:32

A Rip.

Syl: 00:13:34

Mm.

Rachel: 00:13:36

I think I wrote that down somewhere.

Rachel: 00:13:39

I think I wrote that down in my notes somewhere.

Han: 00:13:42

I was like, the last nail in the coffin.

Rachel: 00:13:45

No, I said, oh.

Rachel: 00:13:47

Rip Decided to put his relationship with Abby to rest.

Rachel: 00:13:51

Rip.

Syl: 00:13:52

I feel like I said something like, oh, I just said deaf of his relationship with her is what I said.

Rachel: 00:14:01

What a great Halloween episode.

Rachel: 00:14:05

Jesus.

Rachel: 00:14:07

Anyways, fantastic music analysis.

Rachel: 00:14:10

Thank you.

Rachel: 00:14:11

Can always trust you for that.

Han: 00:14:13

I'm a huge lyric person, so I really appreciate that.

Han: 00:14:16

They do, like, a lot of shows will just, like, choose vibes and not pay attention to the lyrics.

Han: 00:14:24

And they do a really good job of.

Han: 00:14:26

For, like, the key emotional moments, choosing really good songs.

Rachel: 00:14:31

So I found an article that came out, I think, the same day as this episode aired, and it's an article with Ryan Guzman.

Rachel: 00:14:41

The title, or it's from TV Line.

Rachel: 00:14:44

The title is Ryan Guzman previews Eddie's tense relation Reunion with his estranged wife.

Rachel: 00:14:51

And I thought there were.

Rachel: 00:14:52

There were some interesting quotes in here I'd like to share with you.

Rachel: 00:14:57

So at one point, he says in talking about Shannon coming back and you know, their rocky relationship and how we start to see that, he says it seems like she had very good reasons for doing the things she did.

Rachel: 00:15:12

Plus, who knows if Eddie went over the line at one point.

Rachel: 00:15:15

There are so many things that have yet to be said.

Rachel: 00:15:18

And I love this quote because we do get to see in season three with Eddie Begins, which is also just like such a pivotal episode, obviously we refer to it literally every single time.

Rachel: 00:15:35

Sorry, not sorry.

Rachel: 00:15:39

And so I think that's great because, you know, with this episode, they really are already setting up for that kind of thing because we, we do or when we get to that episode, we'll see the, like this argument that they have kind of fleshed out in the, in the flashbacks and it stays very true to what they say in this episode.

Rachel: 00:16:01

There's another quote that I thought was really cute.

Rachel: 00:16:05

It was Ryan saying that Gavin McHugh, who plays his son Christopher, had a school project where he had to pick an interesting person that inspires him.

Rachel: 00:16:14

And he wrote about Ryan.

Rachel: 00:16:16

He said he could have chosen anyone, but he wrote about me.

Rachel: 00:16:19

He's made me even more excited as a soon to be father to get to that place with his own child.

Rachel: 00:16:24

I feel very privileged that my character gets to spend time with him.

Rachel: 00:16:28

And I thought that was because he.

Han: 00:16:29

Calls Gavin his first kid.

Rachel: 00:16:30

Exactly.

Rachel: 00:16:31

I thought that was really, really sweet.

Rachel: 00:16:33

And just also I don't want to make this like weird or like, or sad, but in, but in dose in the last episode, Bobby talks about how his daughter Brooke was doing a show and tell with her hero who was her dad.

Rachel: 00:16:56

And I just thought that was like a kind of a nice connection, like a little art, like life imitating art sort of thing.

Rachel: 00:17:04

And just really sweet.

Rachel: 00:17:06

I love that they have that bond and chemistry as TV father, son.

Rachel: 00:17:12

It's really cute.

Rachel: 00:17:13

They work so well together.

Rachel: 00:17:15

And then the last thing I want to share from this article is the author of this article said, speaking of Eddie's love life, many viewers assumed that he was going to be paired with Buck's sister Maddie, which I'm very interested to hear for anyone who's been in the fandom longer than, than we have, like since season one and longer than six months.

Rachel: 00:17:38

Longer than six months.

Rachel: 00:17:41

What, what the vibe was like, like what was the temperature in those first couple episodes of season two, because I haven't really seen too much about it from the fandom side, you know, and I don't know if this is addressing like the fandom sort of beliefs or Just like a general audience sort of thing, but could be general audience.

Syl: 00:18:06

I'll let you finish.

Syl: 00:18:07

I'll let you finish, and I'll give you my opinion.

Han: 00:18:10

I'm gonna let you finish.

Rachel: 00:18:12

I'm gonna let you.

Rachel: 00:18:12

Thank you.

Rachel: 00:18:15

So Ryan Guzman said, I think everybody was on the same train of thought.

Rachel: 00:18:21

Even the writers, when they initially brought me in for the show, were like, we've got this new character played by Jennifer Love Hewitt, who we think might end up.

Rachel: 00:18:29

Who we think you might end up with.

Rachel: 00:18:32

We had this whole long speech about where the character was headed, and I didn't know that.

Rachel: 00:18:37

That it was even brought to Ryan at the table to discuss his character about Eddie.

Rachel: 00:18:45

But that also made me.

Rachel: 00:18:48

Or I've heard before, and I found an article that states it where Jennifer Love Hewitt had asked for Maddie to be with Chimney from her very first day on set.

Rachel: 00:19:00

So I have that linked as well.

Rachel: 00:19:01

Weekly article from, I think,: 2022

Rachel: 00:19:06

So it's.

Rachel: 00:19:06

It's more recent.

Rachel: 00:19:07

But Jennifer Love Hewitt said, back on her first day of 91 1, Tim Minier asked what I wanted to have happen for Maddie.

Rachel: 00:19:15

And I said that I wanted her to be with Chimney.

Rachel: 00:19:18

It was kind of like, wait, what?

Rachel: 00:19:21

Which I guess kind of tracks because they had a slightly different plan.

Rachel: 00:19:25

And then she goes on to say, I just felt like they're, like they were two people who were sort of meant to be together.

Rachel: 00:19:32

I was just sort of thinking about who Maddie was and where I hoped she was going to go.

Rachel: 00:19:37

And I think she was deserving of a Chimney in her life.

Rachel: 00:19:40

I think anybody who wants to be in love deserves a really good person like him.

Rachel: 00:19:45

I don't know.

Rachel: 00:19:46

It was just a gut feeling.

Rachel: 00:19:48

And putting those two bits of information together is so cool because it shows how collaborative Tim Minor has been where they had an idea for the character, for their characters, and based on the input of the actors who like Jennifer Love Hewitt's gut feeling, which was a fantastic gut feeling.

Rachel: 00:20:17

I think we can all agree on that, because Maddie and Chimney are just, like, so wonderful.

Rachel: 00:20:24

Separate, but together as well.

Rachel: 00:20:27

It shows, like, how the narrative in the story is, like, fluid and can be.

Rachel: 00:20:34

It's, like, still unwritten sort of thing and just kind of fantastic that they kind of pivoted a little bit.

Rachel: 00:20:45

And possibly with that.

Rachel: 00:20:48

Thank you.

Rachel: 00:20:48

Jennifer Love Hewitt paved the way for something else.

Rachel: 00:20:57

Scylla, what were you going to say?

Rachel: 00:20:59

Because I know you had opinions.

Syl: 00:21:01

I.

Syl: 00:21:02

I feel like, okay, like, in the show itself, obviously they've made changes as Far as the final cut goes, but, like, I didn't feel like they were gonna get together, obviously, like, by watching the show, but stereotypically hot girl, hot guy.

Syl: 00:21:19

Like, of course they were.

Syl: 00:21:21

They could have been, should have been.

Syl: 00:21:22

It's like a typical to me.

Rachel: 00:21:24

And newcomers.

Syl: 00:21:26

Newcomers.

Syl: 00:21:26

It's.

Syl: 00:21:27

To me, it's typical.

Syl: 00:21:28

I just.

Syl: 00:21:29

And I think I said this in last week's episode.

Syl: 00:21:31

I think I said.

Syl: 00:21:33

I feel like it would have been pretty.

Syl: 00:21:35

I.

Syl: 00:21:36

I feel like it could have been, like, not destructive, just bad, like, if they ended up together.

Syl: 00:21:42

I don't know.

Syl: 00:21:43

They have.

Syl: 00:21:43

So they're so similar.

Syl: 00:21:45

I think they can benefit from, like, each other's baggage, I guess.

Syl: 00:21:51

But I don't think in a relationship.

Syl: 00:21:54

I think more in, like a friendship type of thing.

Rachel: 00:21:57

Yeah.

Han: 00:21:58

Kind of how I feel about Taylor and Buck.

Rachel: 00:22:00

Yeah.

Rachel: 00:22:02

Like, they're.

Rachel: 00:22:03

They're too similar.

Rachel: 00:22:04

And with.

Rachel: 00:22:05

With Maddie and Eddie, like, there's a lot that they can identify with in each other, but I'm not sure that's what the other one would need in a romantic relationship or a.

Rachel: 00:22:19

Or a.

Rachel: 00:22:20

Or a partnership, which kind of makes it more perfect that Maddie ends up with Chimney.

Rachel: 00:22:28

Because he kind of like brings her.

Rachel: 00:22:31

Brings her up a little bit, you know, lightens the.

Rachel: 00:22:35

What have we been saying?

Rachel: 00:22:36

He helps lighten the load for Maddie and.

Syl: 00:22:41

Load.

Rachel: 00:22:42

Exactly.

Rachel: 00:22:44

And I think Buck is also there.

Rachel: 00:22:47

Buck is also there for Eddie.

Syl: 00:22:51

I'm also here.

Rachel: 00:22:52

And.

Rachel: 00:22:53

And.

Rachel: 00:22:54

And let's just.

Rachel: 00:22:55

Let's just say they just.

Rachel: 00:22:58

Their initial thought was just the wrong Buckley.

Rachel: 00:23:01

That's all.

Rachel: 00:23:02

Yeah, that's all.

Rachel: 00:23:06

So that was the press for my little red string corner.

Rachel: 00:23:12

There were a couple things that I wanted to point out.

Rachel: 00:23:14

I didn't really have a good place to point them out otherwise.

Rachel: 00:23:18

So some of them are going to be a little, like, parallely, a little foreshadowy.

Rachel: 00:23:25

This is the place to do it.

Rachel: 00:23:26

So at the corn maze or the haunted house or whatever, call.

Rachel: 00:23:31

And there were all the bats and Hen says, you know, rabid bats.

Rachel: 00:23:37

During a mosquito epidemic.

Rachel: 00:23:39

That is a very subtle or.

Rachel: 00:23:42

I think it's subtle call back to the last episode in Dosed, where at the very end, after Taylor Kelly has kind of gotten her big break in front of the camera.

Rachel: 00:23:54

She.

Rachel: 00:23:55

And I think it's the scene at the end where Maddie is watching laundry.

Rachel: 00:24:00

Yeah.

Rachel: 00:24:01

And Taylor is doing this story about this mosquito epidemic that's happening.

Rachel: 00:24:07

And I just thought that was great because that's what you call continuity.

Rachel: 00:24:14

That's what you call continuity.

Han: 00:24:15

Never met her before.

Han: 00:24:16

We Started watching the show.

Rachel: 00:24:19

But, like, that's such a teeny, tiny element detail.

Han: 00:24:24

Yeah.

Rachel: 00:24:24

And I was just like, wait a second.

Rachel: 00:24:26

We know that there's a mosquito epidemic because it was mentioned very, very, you know, offhand.

Rachel: 00:24:32

And then, you know, Buck has a.

Rachel: 00:24:35

An opening monologue in this episode, and he talks about eventually everything dies.

Han: 00:24:43

Yes.

Rachel: 00:24:44

And I just wanted to point out that eventually everything dies in the episode where we.

Rachel: 00:24:51

Where we meet Shannon.

Han: 00:24:53

I know.

Rachel: 00:24:54

Yikes.

Han: 00:24:55

Insane.

Rachel: 00:24:55

Yes.

Han: 00:24:56

Insane choice.

Syl: 00:24:59

That's big.

Rachel: 00:25:00

Yikes.

Syl: 00:25:01

Anyway, and there's.

Han: 00:25:04

There's some insane things.

Rachel: 00:25:06

I'm sure we'll go into that more.

Syl: 00:25:07

That is going on on the sixth.

Syl: 00:25:09

No shit.

Han: 00:25:10

This is not the sixth.

Han: 00:25:11

This is the seventh.

Han: 00:25:13

We're not stone six.

Han: 00:25:15

Thank God.

Rachel: 00:25:16

Oh, my God.

Rachel: 00:25:17

That's why we had so much trouble with it.

Syl: 00:25:21

A number six parallel.

Syl: 00:25:23

Anyway, sorry.

Syl: 00:25:24

Derailed.

Rachel: 00:25:25

Yes.

Rachel: 00:25:25

So Buck doing the.

Rachel: 00:25:28

Doing the opening monologue.

Rachel: 00:25:29

Everything eventually dies in the episode where Shannon cometh back.

Rachel: 00:25:34

That's wolf.

Rachel: 00:25:36

That's a big wolf.

Rachel: 00:25:38

And that also indicates to me, even from that parallel that I.

Rachel: 00:25:44

That I found with the escalator call, they knew.

Rachel: 00:25:48

They knew they were going to kill her off early.

Rachel: 00:25:52

Sorry.

Rachel: 00:25:53

Spoilers.

Han: 00:25:54

Wait.

Han: 00:25:54

What?

Syl: 00:25:55

The escalator from episode four.

Han: 00:26:00

Wow.

Rachel: 00:26:00

Yeah.

Rachel: 00:26:00

It was stuck.

Syl: 00:26:01

Wow.

Han: 00:26:02

Okay.

Syl: 00:26:03

Yay.

Rachel: 00:26:04

Remember when I was talking about the guy with the engagement ring and then just wanted the box and it was like that kind of like.

Syl: 00:26:10

Yeah.

Syl: 00:26:10

Because it was a similar shot.

Syl: 00:26:12

Yeah.

Rachel: 00:26:12

And I.

Rachel: 00:26:13

And I paralleled it to Eddie and Shannon.

Han: 00:26:17

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Rachel: 00:26:18

This is.

Han: 00:26:19

It's now been, like a month since we did that.

Rachel: 00:26:21

So I just remember that because I was really proud of it.

Rachel: 00:26:24

Okay.

Rachel: 00:26:26

And I'm looking.

Rachel: 00:26:27

I'm looking for foreshadow.

Rachel: 00:26:28

I'm purposeful looking for foreshadowing things.

Rachel: 00:26:31

So this is just another tick under the clock.

Han: 00:26:34

So you think they knew, like, they brought her on and they already had this arc planned for her to, like, bring her back and kill.

Han: 00:26:40

Wow.

Rachel: 00:26:41

I really knew.

Han: 00:26:42

We're gonna bring on this pretty man and just make him suffer.

Rachel: 00:26:46

I really do think they had that in mind, like, from the very beginning the season.

Han: 00:26:55

Yeah.

Han: 00:26:56

There was something else that I noticed that I can't remember where it is now.

Han: 00:27:01

It was probably not for a deep dive.

Rachel: 00:27:03

Yeah.

Rachel: 00:27:04

And.

Han: 00:27:04

Oh, it's in themes.

Han: 00:27:06

We'll get there.

Rachel: 00:27:06

Oh, okay.

Rachel: 00:27:08

And I think I feel like that is supported as well, because I haven't found.

Rachel: 00:27:13

I don't have an article to reference it specifically, but I know Tim Minor has said that he kind of regrets killing Off Shannon and.

Rachel: 00:27:24

And Devin Kelly, the actress.

Rachel: 00:27:26

Because she's so great.

Han: 00:27:28

The actress.

Han: 00:27:29

Yeah.

Rachel: 00:27:29

Yeah.

Rachel: 00:27:31

So I.

Rachel: 00:27:32

I kind of feel like that was in the works kind of from the beginning.

Han: 00:27:35

Yeah.

Rachel: 00:27:37

And just by sheer, like, how great she is.

Rachel: 00:27:41

That's why they keep bringing her back in interesting ways.

Rachel: 00:27:47

And then, you know, so we have a sinkhole at the.

Rachel: 00:27:50

At the cemetery, and.

Rachel: 00:27:51

And Buck almost falls in, and Bobby catches him, and he says he doesn't want the crew to fall into a sinkhole and drag 10 tons of loose soil on top of themselves.

Rachel: 00:28:03

And I just wanted to.

Syl: 00:28:06

We're really beating that reference like a dead horse.

Han: 00:28:13

Dead horses.

Rachel: 00:28:16

That's.

Han: 00:28:16

We're not there yet.

Han: 00:28:17

Shh.

Rachel: 00:28:19

Yes.

Rachel: 00:28:20

So I.

Rachel: 00:28:21

For this one, I don't know that it was, like, actually intentional, but it is interesting because it is.

Rachel: 00:28:29

It's interesting because it is the episode where Shannon comes back, and it is very.

Rachel: 00:28:33

Eddie.

Rachel: 00:28:35

Heavy with this kind of stuff, so I have to point it out.

Rachel: 00:28:42

Okay, so color theory is a thing.

Rachel: 00:28:46

We're just going to tldr, introduce the idea that we can, you know, come back to in more depth later.

Rachel: 00:28:59

There's an idea that goes around, I think, in.

Rachel: 00:29:02

In a lot of shows as well, especially fandom, with color theory and kind of assigning a color to a character sort of thing.

Rachel: 00:29:11

If they tend to wear that color a lot, it's indicative of certain things.

Rachel: 00:29:14

Or, you know, like, Dean in Supernatural is green, but Castiel is blue.

Rachel: 00:29:22

Those are the color of their eyes.

Rachel: 00:29:23

So it's this kind of, like, signifier of them.

Rachel: 00:29:27

So.

Han: 00:29:28

And they put them in those colors a lot.

Rachel: 00:29:31

Exactly.

Han: 00:29:31

Well, I mean, Cas tie is blue.

Han: 00:29:33

It's the one piece of color he has.

Rachel: 00:29:37

Beige is a color.

Han: 00:29:38

And Dean's jackets are normally green.

Rachel: 00:29:40

Yeah.

Rachel: 00:29:41

So beige is a color.

Rachel: 00:29:44

Neutral.

Rachel: 00:29:45

It is a neutral, but it's still a color.

Rachel: 00:29:48

Anyway.

Rachel: 00:29:49

Anyways, I'm trying to do this tldr.

Rachel: 00:29:51

So typically, like, wardrobe will end up putting characters in a lot of the same colors.

Rachel: 00:29:56

There's a theory that people have developed and that I personally subscribe to, and it's that Buck is red, Eddie is blue.

Rachel: 00:30:13

Right.

Rachel: 00:30:14

But then you also get into Christopher's yellow, which I think we mentioned a little bit in our 204 episode stuck, because he had a lot of, like, yellow with that big yellow cabinet.

Rachel: 00:30:26

So Christopher is generally thought of as yellow, and Shannon is orangey.

Rachel: 00:30:35

Right.

Rachel: 00:30:36

So those are the typical colors, and that these characters are represented by.

Rachel: 00:30:43

And any.

Rachel: 00:30:45

Anytime they're wearing those colors is indicative of them, like, being themselves or if they're wearing a different color.

Rachel: 00:30:52

They're like, maybe not feeling exactly themselves.

Rachel: 00:30:55

So specifically, at the end, like, in the end monologue with Buck, when he's talking about how he.

Rachel: 00:31:01

How he wants to find who he is without Abby, he is in red.

Rachel: 00:31:06

So that is very much a.

Rachel: 00:31:08

Like, he's trying to find himself.

Rachel: 00:31:10

He's trying to be himself without Abby.

Rachel: 00:31:13

That's an indicator as well.

Rachel: 00:31:15

And then when Eddie.

Rachel: 00:31:19

And when Shannon comes over to Eddie's house, Eddie is in all blue.

Rachel: 00:31:24

I mean, it's.

Rachel: 00:31:25

It's a Canadian tuxedo.

Rachel: 00:31:26

It's denim on denim.

Rachel: 00:31:27

I don't have a problem.

Han: 00:31:28

It looks really good.

Rachel: 00:31:30

Yeah.

Rachel: 00:31:31

But it is head to toe blue, which is also interesting because it's.

Rachel: 00:31:35

It's in his space, it's in his house.

Rachel: 00:31:38

And Shannon is in this kind of like orangey rust color top.

Rachel: 00:31:43

Right.

Rachel: 00:31:44

With blue pants.

Rachel: 00:31:45

But, you know, but after.

Rachel: 00:31:49

After they meet and he goes to meet her after her interview, he's in green, which is a combination of blue and yellow.

Rachel: 00:32:02

But she is also wearing a yellow dress in this instance.

Rachel: 00:32:06

So that can also kind of be an indicator of Eddie trying.

Rachel: 00:32:10

Of Eddie, like, you know, like, kind of extending maybe.

Rachel: 00:32:16

Maybe not feeling like, as holy in himself because he's trying to be something for Christopher or Shannon.

Rachel: 00:32:27

And that inclusion of yellow into his typical blue is an indicator of that.

Rachel: 00:32:36

So that's just like a very, like, tldr as you're watching episodes.

Rachel: 00:32:41

Just pay attention to that.

Rachel: 00:32:44

There's a great thread or a couple threads on Twitter which will link as well.

Rachel: 00:32:50

That explains it pretty well.

Rachel: 00:32:51

But it's just something that is cool to look out for and just another facet of, you know, trying to get into the character psyche through a visual medium, being clothing and how they express themselves in their clothes.

Han: 00:33:11

From the wardrobe department when.

Han: 00:33:13

When he's touring the school, when Eddie's touring the school and he's wearing an all blue suit and Carla's there, she's wearing an orange shirt.

Rachel: 00:33:23

And what is Carla representing so much in this episode?

Han: 00:33:27

Oh, a motherly presence.

Rachel: 00:33:29

A motherly presence or a push to.

Han: 00:33:32

Push to.

Rachel: 00:33:33

For Chris to have his mom.

Han: 00:33:35

Yeah.

Han: 00:33:35

Yeah.

Rachel: 00:33:36

So see, there's, like, it's definitely stuff that you're.

Rachel: 00:33:41

That we can really read into, and it is very subjective on what you think it could mean, but, like, it is.

Rachel: 00:33:48

It is there.

Syl: 00:33:49

Yeah.

Han: 00:33:49

But it is intentional.

Rachel: 00:33:51

There's.

Han: 00:33:51

There's.

Han: 00:33:52

There's a certain amount of intentionality in, you know, costume design, you know, to.

Rachel: 00:34:00

Help portray what the characters are going through on the Inside, on the outside.

Han: 00:34:06

Yeah, well, there's there.

Han: 00:34:09

Especially in television, I think everything is so intentional, like from set pieces to costuming, like every.

Han: 00:34:20

Every part of it is.

Han: 00:34:21

So whenever I like, feel like we're reading a little bit too much into this, I'm like, are we though?

Rachel: 00:34:26

Because so many people had to make a decision.

Han: 00:34:30

They put a lot of work and a lot of details into.

Han: 00:34:34

Yeah, exactly.

Han: 00:34:35

Are we getting the meeting right?

Han: 00:34:37

Maybe, maybe not.

Rachel: 00:34:38

But that's the subjective part.

Han: 00:34:40

Yeah.

Rachel: 00:34:41

The fact still remains that there are so many decisions from, like the collaborative departments that have to okay this and this and this for it to go.

Rachel: 00:34:55

So, like, there's intention there from so many different aspects to kind of support this.

Syl: 00:35:04

And I know we're gonna get into this particular scene later, but the conversation that Maddie and Buck are having.

Syl: 00:35:12

Yes.

Syl: 00:35:13

It parallels season seven, episode five, but they're also wearing the same colors, which is like, insane because he.

Rachel: 00:35:23

Yeah, because she's wearing that, right?

Syl: 00:35:25

No, no, I'm talking about the comp.

Syl: 00:35:28

So in the.

Syl: 00:35:29

In the kitchen, they're having a conversation over dinner.

Syl: 00:35:31

Buck and Maddie.

Rachel: 00:35:32

Uh huh.

Han: 00:35:33

Oh, yeah.

Syl: 00:35:34

So she's wearing that minty green.

Syl: 00:35:38

And both in season seven and in this season.

Syl: 00:35:41

And then he's wearing.

Syl: 00:35:42

Well, in season seven, he's wearing.

Syl: 00:35:45

He's wearing like a.

Syl: 00:35:46

Is that navy or is that black?

Syl: 00:35:47

Or is my computer screen.

Han: 00:35:48

It's really dark blue, I think.

Rachel: 00:35:50

I.

Han: 00:35:50

It's really hard to tell because of the lighting.

Rachel: 00:35:53

Bluish black.

Syl: 00:35:53

I was gonna.

Syl: 00:35:54

Okay, well, it's a very, very dark color.

Syl: 00:35:57

But I thought it was black because he's also wearing it.

Han: 00:36:00

I assume it's not black because they like never put him in black.

Syl: 00:36:05

So what is he wearing in this scene?

Rachel: 00:36:08

I'd have to go back and see it.

Rachel: 00:36:09

But if they put him in something so close to black, whether it's navy or not, it's still.

Rachel: 00:36:18

That is also indicative, you know, still talking about color theory.

Rachel: 00:36:23

That's indicative of him deciding that his relationship with Abby is no longer.

Rachel: 00:36:30

So it's.

Rachel: 00:36:31

It's him kind of like in this, like, dress of mourning.

Rachel: 00:36:37

So still stands.

Syl: 00:36:40

Thank you, Rachel.

Syl: 00:36:44

Thank you for telling me.

Syl: 00:36:45

It still stands.

Syl: 00:36:45

Because I was like, well, never mind then.

Han: 00:36:48

No, I mean, it's accurate.

Han: 00:36:50

I was just trying to get the color right because that's how my brain works.

Han: 00:36:55

But yeah, you're right.

Han: 00:36:56

It doesn't matter whether it's black or dark blue.

Han: 00:36:59

It's the same alleged meaning.

Han: 00:37:14

So I know this episode is called Haunted, but I feel like they should have called it ghosted because that's kind of actually the theme because everyone has been ghosted and that the ghosting is what's haunting them.

Han: 00:37:31

They've been ghosted in different ways or I guess in different types of relationships for different reasons.

Han: 00:37:40

But I mean, when it comes down to it, it's all abandonment.

Rachel: 00:37:45

Yeah.

Han: 00:37:46

Which I think is, you know, ghosting is abandonment, like inherently.

Han: 00:37:51

But abandonment sounds more serious.

Han: 00:37:55

Which I feel like all of these situations are pretty serious.

Han: 00:37:59

It wasn't like, oh, I went on a couple dates and like they ghosted me.

Han: 00:38:02

You know what I mean?

Han: 00:38:03

Because I feel like ghosted is normally used in a casual dating sort of.

Han: 00:38:09

Yeah.

Rachel: 00:38:10

Yeah.

Rachel: 00:38:11

I think all, pretty much all of the characters here have a.

Rachel: 00:38:17

Have an issue with feeling abandoned in some way, shape or form.

Rachel: 00:38:23

Or maybe they are the ones who have done the abandoning.

Han: 00:38:28

I'm gonna go to my favorite one that I, that like, is kind of obvious.

Han: 00:38:33

But I only realize this always happens to me.

Han: 00:38:36

I don't know why.

Han: 00:38:36

Sometimes things are super obvious, obvious, and I don't notice it until like the umpteenth time that I watch it.

Han: 00:38:44

And I'm so sorry, but beating a dead horse is a big theme.

Han: 00:38:52

And then once I realized that that was a theme, I was like, oh, they really like did it heavy handed did this.

Han: 00:38:59

And we're like, we're just going to let you know with our whole chests that all of these situations are beating a dead horse.

Han: 00:39:08

And the definition of that, because I like to do that, is to waste effort on something when there is no chance of succeeding.

Rachel: 00:39:16

Ooh, no win scenario.

Han: 00:39:19

Right.

Han: 00:39:19

Because you can't, like the horse is dead.

Han: 00:39:22

You can't.

Rachel: 00:39:23

That's so sad.

Han: 00:39:25

I'm.

Han: 00:39:26

I said I was sorry, but it is, but it, it's very true in like all of these situations.

Han: 00:39:33

Right.

Han: 00:39:34

Because like, if, if Buck had continued to wait around trying, you know, to do the same thing, expecting something different to happen.

Han: 00:39:45

Like, there's just no chance.

Han: 00:39:47

There's no chance of it, you know, ever succeeding.

Han: 00:39:52

And they're telling us so many ways narratively that this is Eddie and Shannon is just not meant to be.

Han: 00:40:04

They're telling us that, like, this is a waste of time because it can never succeed.

Rachel: 00:40:10

Oof.

Rachel: 00:40:11

I actually didn't really pick up on that fully.

Han: 00:40:14

And Hens is like a past beating a dead horse.

Han: 00:40:18

Right.

Han: 00:40:18

Because I feel like.

Han: 00:40:20

I feel like she kind of got over it as much as she could.

Han: 00:40:24

Like being abandoned because it happened when she was nine.

Rachel: 00:40:27

Yeah.

Han: 00:40:28

I think she had to.

Rachel: 00:40:30

It still brings things up it still brings things up.

Han: 00:40:34

And I think ultimately she real, like, she realized when she was having that conversation with Athena, Right.

Han: 00:40:39

That, like, she couldn't just keep being mad at him because she didn't.

Han: 00:40:44

She didn't hate him.

Han: 00:40:45

Right.

Han: 00:40:46

And she, like, there's no way that, like, she has enough negative feelings about him to, like, feel any positive feelings about pulling the plug.

Han: 00:40:55

So I don't know.

Han: 00:40:56

I think it fit for everyone.

Han: 00:40:59

So sorry for the wording, but yes, so that.

Rachel: 00:41:03

So that makes sense if a real, real, like Nokia on the head sort of.

Rachel: 00:41:11

Sort of way of going about it and then just to get back to being ghosted.

Rachel: 00:41:17

But I feel like this is also kind of similar to what Hen is kind of experiencing.

Rachel: 00:41:24

There's this element of, like, knowing versus not knowing or being haunted by the what ifs.

Rachel: 00:41:30

And I feel like that specifically is affecting Hen and Athena.

Rachel: 00:41:38

Well, all of them.

Rachel: 00:41:41

Right?

Han: 00:41:41

Yeah.

Rachel: 00:41:42

You know, just kind of like.

Rachel: 00:41:44

Or maybe just like the most explicit with Hen because she's.

Rachel: 00:41:49

She's looking through all this stuff and she's like, you know, what, what if.

Han: 00:41:54

I mean, yeah, she's.

Han: 00:41:56

She has these what ifs of, like, what if, you know, since he, her dad obviously was in LA and was obviously, like, keeping some tabs on her, like, what if, you know, he had reached out and they had formed some kind of relationship and then Buck is struggling because he's like, I feel like I should move on, but what if she comes back?

Han: 00:42:23

Like, am I giving up too soon?

Han: 00:42:25

And Eddie is like, you know, what if she had come back?

Han: 00:42:32

What if Shanahan come back?

Rachel: 00:42:34

And I know I'm skipping around a little bit, but that, that really goes into this idea of hope and waiting, but also closure and grieving.

Rachel: 00:42:48

Right.

Rachel: 00:42:49

Because you.

Rachel: 00:42:50

You want to continue to have hope and hope in people and hope that things will turn out for the better.

Rachel: 00:42:59

But like Buck says in the episode, how do you know if you're hanging on too long or giving up too soon?

Rachel: 00:43:05

So it's that kind of, like, tension of how much time do you let pass before you let go?

Rachel: 00:43:15

So either, like, you let go without closure and you're grieving it anyways, or even if you have let go and you finally do get closure back, you then have to go into grieving it again as a second time sort of thing, because now you know what would have happened.

Rachel: 00:43:38

And I feel like we'll see that with Buck and Abby as well at the end of season three.

Han: 00:43:45

Yeah, I put.

Han: 00:43:47

I had closure, but specifically, there are two ways that people are Having closure here, which is either finding it or just making it.

Han: 00:43:57

Because if it's not offered to you, in the case of Buck and Hen, you have to make it.

Rachel: 00:44:06

And the next episode is find it or you don't find it.

Rachel: 00:44:10

You make it so smart.

Rachel: 00:44:19

Oh, my gosh.

Rachel: 00:44:21

Impeccable.

Rachel: 00:44:22

Yeah, that.

Rachel: 00:44:24

So that theme of kind of like making your own closures so you can move on finding versus making goes into the next episode, which we're gonna talk about next time as well.

Rachel: 00:44:39

And let's see, there's also like this theme of notifying next of kin.

Rachel: 00:44:45

Right.

Rachel: 00:44:46

So in.

Rachel: 00:44:47

In terms of finding closure, I guess, you know, or.

Rachel: 00:44:52

Or when closure is thrust upon you, you know, I don't.

Rachel: 00:44:58

When.

Rachel: 00:44:59

When you are given closure, like.

Rachel: 00:45:03

Like when Athena goes to the wife of the deceased hiker or so she notifies his next of kin.

Rachel: 00:45:13

Hen's father was.

Rachel: 00:45:16

They were trying to find his next of kin so they could decide what to do for him.

Rachel: 00:45:23

Notifying next of kin for Eddie, contacting Shannon, which he would not have otherwise if he didn't have to do this interview for the school.

Rachel: 00:45:34

So there's like that element as well, I think, which.

Rachel: 00:45:38

Which kind of connects to like resurfacing or shall we say unearthing in a very literal sense.

Rachel: 00:45:48

I said unearthing because of the graveyard thing, not because of the.

Rachel: 00:45:51

Well, sure, but, you know, and so like resurfacing after no contact, and then all of a sudden like, boom, they're there and what do you do in any kind of sense of what there is.

Rachel: 00:46:09

So like this unearthing as well also, Chimney mentions it.

Rachel: 00:46:16

Just a little tie back to the earthquake, how that shifted things under the surface.

Rachel: 00:46:25

So they're walking on eggshells and bubble wrap.

Rachel: 00:46:28

He says.

Rachel: 00:46:29

So this.

Rachel: 00:46:30

This feeling of like shifting sands or wide reaching effects of unstable ground, which also.

Rachel: 00:46:40

And also like going back to the earthquake, the release of pressure which causes a collapse.

Rachel: 00:46:46

And that's the.

Rachel: 00:46:47

That's physically seen in the sinkhole.

Rachel: 00:46:50

So we still see this element of pressure and release that we saw in the first episode of the season and how that creates.

Rachel: 00:47:01

So we see like more the effect of that and how that creates this like, rocky terrain and that these characters have to traverse in, like, their relationships and stuff.

Rachel: 00:47:17

And if that makes sense, I think that covered it.

Han: 00:47:26

Who's cooking?

Han: 00:47:31

Oh, speaking of unearthing, so Athena gets a little arc in this episode, but what is really cool is how it's kind of like laying the crumbs for some stuff that happens in the future.

Han: 00:47:49

And like her Begins episode and then season six.

Rachel: 00:47:54

Yeah.

Rachel: 00:47:55

Which again, everything is.

Han: 00:48:01

Everything is connected and not being.

Rachel: 00:48:03

Everything is connected.

Rachel: 00:48:04

Everything has intention.

Han: 00:48:06

We have connected.

Han: 00:48:07

Shit.

Han: 00:48:08

But yeah.

Han: 00:48:08

So basically the origin of her wanting to be a cop is because of this tragedy happening to her next door neighbor who was a kid and it was an unsolved case.

Rachel: 00:48:25

A cold case.

Han: 00:48:26

So a cold case.

Han: 00:48:28

And I think distinctly what pulls her to this specific case, other than the similarities, is that she.

Han: 00:48:37

Other officers don't want to work on it because they want to work on things that just happened, you know, and finding people to try and help people who are still alive or not.

Han: 00:48:50

Dead ends that are dead ends.

Han: 00:48:52

Exactly.

Han: 00:48:52

Yes.

Rachel: 00:48:53

Sorry for the phrasing.

Han: 00:48:54

Yeah.

Han: 00:48:55

But so she, she.

Han: 00:48:58

She, you know, volunteered.

Han: 00:49:00

She volunteered for this.

Han: 00:49:01

And like, as Bobby said, she.

Han: 00:49:03

He was like, this isn't like your thing.

Han: 00:49:05

And she was like, I can do whatever the fuck I want, basically.

Rachel: 00:49:08

So true Queen.

Han: 00:49:10

Which I don't think is even realistic for her position.

Han: 00:49:13

But nothing about what Athena does is realistic.

Han: 00:49:15

I'm fine with that.

Han: 00:49:16

She can do whatever she wants.

Rachel: 00:49:17

She can do what she wants.

Rachel: 00:49:18

But I do love that Bobby points out, like, this isn't your usual beat.

Rachel: 00:49:22

And she's just like, I'm a field sergeant.

Han: 00:49:24

Yeah.

Rachel: 00:49:24

I go wherever I want.

Han: 00:49:26

Makes a phone call and then, then he's like, are you gonna help me clean?

Han: 00:49:29

She's like, bye.

Rachel: 00:49:32

Which respect.

Rachel: 00:49:35

Because I would not want to.

Rachel: 00:49:37

Those were a lot of pumpkins.

Rachel: 00:49:39

Yeah, they got so many pumpkins.

Han: 00:49:41

I love that Bobby was making ghosts for Buck.

Rachel: 00:49:45

For Buck.

Han: 00:49:46

Father behavior.

Rachel: 00:49:48

Yes.

Han: 00:49:48

Talking to other kids about his other kid and was like, we gotta make ghosts for your brother.

Han: 00:49:54

For your big brother.

Han: 00:49:55

Because he's convinced that A ghost called 911.

Han: 00:50:00

He's so silly.

Han: 00:50:01

Goofy.

Rachel: 00:50:02

Quick tangent on Bobby really quickly because I just wanted to like mention this.

Rachel: 00:50:07

So like, yeah, they're making a bunch of ghosts for Buck because he's doing like this little like ribbing thing.

Rachel: 00:50:15

But when Athena asks, you know, like, what do you think about this?

Rachel: 00:50:21

And you know, like, do you think it was a ghost?

Rachel: 00:50:24

Do you think it wasn't?

Rachel: 00:50:25

And Bobby does this like very Bobby thing where he answers without answering, which he does a lot, right?

Rachel: 00:50:35

He's like, in, in response, he's like, well, I think that there was someone who called and.

Rachel: 00:50:43

And probably saw this hiker, like go off the edge and called 911 for them and then just like hung up.

Rachel: 00:50:49

Like the most kind of boring, logical answer, most likely possibility.

Rachel: 00:50:57

But he doesn't answer whether or not he thinks ghosts Are real, which was the question.

Rachel: 00:51:03

So he completely like obfuscated it, which he also does looking forward in the Jinx episode.

Han: 00:51:12

Oh my God.

Rachel: 00:51:13

Right in.

Han: 00:51:15

He's like, I'm Switzerland.

Rachel: 00:51:17

Yeah.

Rachel: 00:51:17

Because in.

Rachel: 00:51:19

In that very same vein, you know when they're saying the like talking about the keyword and everything like that, and he just kind of like, I think everybody can think what they think and that's fine.

Rachel: 00:51:31

But he doesn't answer for himself.

Rachel: 00:51:33

And I just think that's really funny because it's just another example of him like not disclosing his personal beliefs.

Syl: 00:51:43

Well, I feel like, I feel like that's one thing, but I also feel like he's like trying to make it make sense to himself because if he puts too much into it, he's.

Syl: 00:51:53

He'll also be just like them.

Syl: 00:51:55

He's got to keep it together.

Rachel: 00:51:57

Right.

Rachel: 00:51:59

I wonder if he feels like he needs to be the voice of reason, you know, when everyone's going on like these kind of spiritual woo woo, like kind of tangents.

Han: 00:52:13

Well, yeah, because the three of because and chimney and Buck are all varying degrees and flavors of like superstitious and.

Han: 00:52:24

Yeah.

Syl: 00:52:24

And then there's Eddie who doesn't want to.

Syl: 00:52:27

But like then he was like, oh yeah, what about your necklace?

Syl: 00:52:31

You're believing in that.

Syl: 00:52:33

Exactly.

Han: 00:52:35

Well, what's it people always say this in fix and I.

Han: 00:52:39

It's accurate is that he's not, he's not superstitious.

Han: 00:52:42

He doesn't like believe in ghosts.

Han: 00:52:43

But he believes in signs.

Rachel: 00:52:46

Bobby does.

Han: 00:52:48

No, Eddie.

Rachel: 00:52:49

Oh yeah.

Han: 00:52:50

He believes in signs and then does stupid things because he thinks things are signs.

Rachel: 00:52:56

Well, I think he doesn't put weight into them.

Rachel: 00:52:59

But then they keep showing up for him and he doesn't want to like pay attention to them.

Rachel: 00:53:04

I don't think Eddie wants to believe that they're signs.

Rachel: 00:53:07

But like signs keep showing up for him.

Rachel: 00:53:10

But I was also just going to say I wonder too if Bobby finds it kind of difficult to.

Han: 00:53:19

Look at.

Rachel: 00:53:19

The more like spiritual, you know, that kind of aspect of stuff.

Rachel: 00:53:26

I wonder if he thinks that it like conflicts with his faith.

Syl: 00:53:31

Could be.

Han: 00:53:31

So I was gonna say I feel like it's very hard one or other direction.

Han: 00:53:36

Right.

Han: 00:53:37

So like my family, very staunchly ghosts are not real.

Han: 00:53:42

But like they don't believe this anymore.

Han: 00:53:46

But like definitely we're like, yes, like demons.

Han: 00:53:49

And I'm like, what's the difference between like demonic spirits and ghosts?

Han: 00:53:53

Like are we not saying the same thing but different words?

Han: 00:53:56

Like, I don't.

Han: 00:53:57

But I, I Definitely feel like you either as a religious person, either like really believe in that stuff because you already believe in the woo woo or and you like work that into like your belief system there, or you're just like, it's not in.

Han: 00:54:14

It's not in the book that I'm reading.

Han: 00:54:16

So it doesn't exist.

Rachel: 00:54:19

So I just wanted to go on that brief tangent.

Han: 00:54:21

Yes, back to Athena, but back to Athena.

Han: 00:54:25

So, yeah, she's really drawn to this case, really focused on solving it because she wants to give any next of kin closure because she watched her neighbors watch that whole family who lost their daughter or sister.

Han: 00:54:45

And she said something like, like aged them.

Han: 00:54:48

It changed them very quickly.

Han: 00:54:50

She was like even a.

Han: 00:54:51

Even a week later, she.

Rachel: 00:54:53

So she says when she's talking with hen, she says she remembers how much the parents changed, like in just a week of not knowing.

Rachel: 00:55:05

And there we have the not knowing again.

Rachel: 00:55:08

It was enough to age them.

Rachel: 00:55:09

And by six months, another six.

Rachel: 00:55:16

By six months they were totally broken.

Rachel: 00:55:19

So they had lost.

Rachel: 00:55:22

It seemed like they had lost hope and they kind of became ghosts themselves a little bit.

Rachel: 00:55:30

Right?

Han: 00:55:31

Yeah.

Rachel: 00:55:33

And that seems to really have stuck with her and you know, obviously why she.

Rachel: 00:55:42

She kind of became like a little dog with a bone about this case, this cold case.

Rachel: 00:55:47

Because if she can help solve this one that's one step closer maybe or something that she can do that she couldn't have done with the other one.

Rachel: 00:56:02

So it's not exactly like the, like the 148 names for Bobby, like making up for it.

Rachel: 00:56:08

But like she's still.

Rachel: 00:56:10

I feel like she very much like.

Han: 00:56:12

She has all empathizes with personal empathy for it.

Han: 00:56:16

Yeah.

Rachel: 00:56:17

Empathy is another theme in this episode as well.

Rachel: 00:56:22

Like seeing something from another person's perspective.

Han: 00:56:25

Another person's perspective.

Han: 00:56:27

Yeah.

Rachel: 00:56:28

Once she actually solves this case.

Rachel: 00:56:31

Right.

Rachel: 00:56:32

Which props to her because it wouldn't have been solved if she didn't take it upon herself, you know, kind of outside of her job jurisdiction a little bit.

Rachel: 00:56:43

It would have kept on just like being that.

Rachel: 00:56:47

That lack of closure for this family.

Rachel: 00:56:52

So like she really is the person that is that solved the case or took care of the importance of that, because she knew that.

Rachel: 00:57:03

And I think Maddie touches on this as well when she talks to buck this idea of, you know, thinking or understanding what that person would be going through that, you know, is wrestling with the losing hope or not giving up hope and everything like that.

Rachel: 00:57:24

And so Athena delivers the news to the wife of the deceased hiker and the wife says that, you know, he had been missing for seven years.

Rachel: 00:57:36

And I think that's important because also in that conversation with Maddie and Buck, they mention that, you know, after six or seven years you can legally declare a person dead.

Rachel: 00:57:48

And Maddie goes on to say, you know, like, you know, that must be awful to declare that you've lost hope.

Rachel: 00:57:54

The wife never lost hope.

Rachel: 00:57:56

She.

Rachel: 00:57:56

It was that it was like that time period where she could have petitioned to have him declared dead, but she never lost hope.

Rachel: 00:58:05

Athena specifically says she saw the missing persons report and not anything else.

Rachel: 00:58:11

So even in that timeframe, like, she never lost hope.

Rachel: 00:58:15

But also the wife was so mad.

Rachel: 00:58:19

Not that people thought that her husband had left her, but she was so mad that nobody believed in him that he wouldn't up and leave her like that.

Rachel: 00:58:29

And I thought that was an interesting maybe parallel to Eddie and Shannon as well, that Eddie hasn't given up the hope that he can do what's best for Chris, which I do want to get in into later.

Rachel: 00:58:47

But I thought that was an interesting parallel because we see a lot of that people saying oh or implying Eddie always thinks he knows best is sarcastic.

Rachel: 00:59:00

But Eddie hasn't given up hope in himself that he's doing what's best, even though other people maybe have, maybe haven't.

Rachel: 00:59:10

So I thought that could be a possible parallel.

Syl: 00:59:12

I don't know if this is even relevant anymore, but I did pick up crumbs because.

Rachel: 00:59:19

Crumbs.

Syl: 00:59:20

Crumbs.

Syl: 00:59:21

Because, well, whatever, we'll disregard my thought process for that.

Syl: 00:59:26

But like, but I did pick up crumbs, like in terms of Athena's story and a little bit of that flash forward aspect of it.

Syl: 00:59:38

So I, like, I, I had completely forgotten that she actually did have like the, the whole backstory.

Syl: 00:59:45

So I think I was like reacting as I was watching.

Syl: 00:59:49

So like it just kept.

Syl: 00:59:51

So that's why I was like, I was like disregard my thought process.

Syl: 00:59:54

Now I'm talking about my thought process.

Syl: 00:59:55

But anyway, I had connected this to what we know about Athena.

Syl: 01:00:01

What we learn in Athena begins.

Syl: 01:00:03

I don't remember what that is, but about like her fiance and like, like basically like she didn't know who killed him, right?

Syl: 01:00:16

Yeah, so she didn't know who killed him.

Syl: 01:00:18

And like I thought like, she also like she connect.

Syl: 01:00:24

She found empathy through that because like for so long, like she just didn't know who it was.

Syl: 01:00:29

She didn't get that kind of closure.

Syl: 01:00:31

So that's why I was like, oh, they're also putting.

Syl: 01:00:34

They're also setting this up for another backstory of Athena's.

Rachel: 01:00:40

No, exactly.

Rachel: 01:00:41

Thank you for bringing that up as well.

Rachel: 01:00:43

I forgot to.

Rachel: 01:00:45

I forgot that was also part of it too.

Rachel: 01:00:48

So, like, she really does have this deep well of empathy for these cold cases.

Rachel: 01:00:56

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to do that one.

Rachel: 01:01:00

But still, you're so right, because it.

Rachel: 01:01:03

It does set up both of her, like, backstory cases in.

Rachel: 01:01:09

In this manner.

Rachel: 01:01:10

And her.

Rachel: 01:01:11

Her personal proximity.

Rachel: 01:01:16

Or it sets up her proximity in different ways for these kind of cold cases.

Rachel: 01:01:22

And why she felt such a pull to.

Rachel: 01:01:29

Yeah, why she felt such a pull to be able to be able to provide the closure for someone, even if she can't provide it for herself or the parents of the little girl from.

Rachel: 01:01:43

From her childhood.

Rachel: 01:01:45

That's.

Rachel: 01:01:46

That's a great point.

Rachel: 01:01:47

This.

Rachel: 01:01:47

Actually, this episode, I think, does so much to, like, crop up or drop.

Rachel: 01:01:55

Like the beginning of lore drops for Athena.

Rachel: 01:02:00

Definitely Eddie as well, in such an interesting way.

Rachel: 01:02:04

Because they also, like, when we finally do see those, it is very consistent to what was put up in season two, I feel like.

Rachel: 01:02:14

Right.

Rachel: 01:02:15

So that's kind of.

Rachel: 01:02:16

That's really interesting.

Rachel: 01:02:17

And.

Rachel: 01:02:17

And it is really very much like the things that.

Rachel: 01:02:23

That haunt these characters popping up again.

Rachel: 01:02:27

Ghost of a second chance.

Rachel: 01:02:29

We might say, like, whack a mole.

Han: 01:02:32

But whack a ghost.

Rachel: 01:02:36

That wouldn't be very efficient because they're translucent and I'm with iron.

Rachel: 01:02:44

Oh, that could work.

Rachel: 01:02:47

It doesn't rhyme.

Syl: 01:02:49

Oh, my God.

Syl: 01:02:51

Speaking of closure and I guess ghosts of a second chance.

Rachel: 01:03:00

Oh, my God.

Han: 01:03:04

Oh, my God.

Han: 01:03:07

One day we won't make it all about Eddie.

Han: 01:03:09

Today is not that day.

Rachel: 01:03:11

Wait, are we going into Eddie already?

Han: 01:03:12

No, no, that was just an Eddie reference.

Rachel: 01:03:15

Oh.

Syl: 01:03:19

So hen.

Han: 01:03:20

Henrietta.

Han: 01:03:22

Henrietta, my love.

Syl: 01:03:23

Henrietta.

Syl: 01:03:24

Going.

Han: 01:03:24

Going through it.

Rachel: 01:03:26

Can she catch a break?

Syl: 01:03:28

No.

Rachel: 01:03:29

Ever.

Han: 01:03:29

Literally never.

Han: 01:03:31

Homophobia.

Syl: 01:03:32

If it isn't like.

Syl: 01:03:33

If it isn't like, crazy exes, it's now daddy issues galore.

Han: 01:03:40

Which, when you learn about the daddy issues, you're like, oh, yeah, that makes sense.

Syl: 01:03:45

I get it.

Rachel: 01:03:45

Yeah.

Han: 01:03:46

Yeah.

Han: 01:03:47

When you learn about everyone's daddy issues.

Han: 01:03:50

Everyone.

Rachel: 01:03:51

Everyone does have daddy issues.

Rachel: 01:03:54

You can't work at the 118 without daddy issues.

Syl: 01:03:57

It's on the job.

Rachel: 01:03:58

And mommy issues, actually.

Han: 01:04:00

Yeah.

Han: 01:04:01

You need to be gay and have daddy issues.

Rachel: 01:04:03

Just all the issues.

Rachel: 01:04:05

It's a requirement.

Han: 01:04:09

So, yeah.

Han: 01:04:10

Hen.

Han: 01:04:11

Hen is really just, like, blindsided by learning that her father is in la.

Rachel: 01:04:20

Has been.

Han: 01:04:22

Has been.

Han: 01:04:23

And she is in charge of deciding to pull the plug on him or not.

Han: 01:04:30

It's the only thing keeping him alive.

Han: 01:04:31

Oof which is like a hard decision to make for anyone, but especially complicated for her because she was abandoned by this man at 9 years old and she hasn't seen or heard from him since.

Rachel: 01:04:46

What a.

Rachel: 01:04:47

What a thing to have dropped in your lap, like, literally.

Rachel: 01:04:51

She didn't ask for this.

Syl: 01:04:54

Nope.

Rachel: 01:04:55

She didn't ask for any of it.

Rachel: 01:04:57

And especially this happens.

Rachel: 01:05:00

I mean, obviously this is intentional in this, in the writing, but after the sinkhole and she's all just like kind of uneasy about like disturbing the spirits because she got like the.

Rachel: 01:05:15

It wasn't a bulldozer, but that a heavy machinery to help find the gravedigger.

Rachel: 01:05:22

She's like, I don't need that mess following me home.

Rachel: 01:05:26

So she was trying to be respectful of the spirits there.

Rachel: 01:05:32

And look what followed her home.

Rachel: 01:05:35

Whoops.

Rachel: 01:05:39

So she's really wrestling this episode with this conflict of having this stranger, this person who she is related to but doesn't know and her.

Rachel: 01:06:00

The responsibility that has been just like put on her shoulders.

Rachel: 01:06:05

Want to talk about Atlas again?

Rachel: 01:06:09

So she's trying to make a decision between, you know, what, what she, what she owes to him, what he would want and why she's.

Rachel: 01:06:21

She even has to do it in the first place because essentially to her he is a stranger and she has to make a life or death decision for him.

Rachel: 01:06:32

And chimney reminds her that they make life or death decisions for strangers all the time.

Rachel: 01:06:39

But it's different when you have personal history, especially being abandoned.

Rachel: 01:06:44

It makes it so much more complicated.

Rachel: 01:06:47

So I think her main thing in this episode is trying to make that closure because he is not able to give it to her since he is comatose.

Rachel: 01:07:02

And, you know, here, here she has this, like, it could have been like a wonderful opportunity to touch base and kind of like ask him questions and get that closure of like, you know, why did you do this?

Rachel: 01:07:18

Why did you leave?

Rachel: 01:07:19

Why.

Rachel: 01:07:20

Why are you back in la?

Rachel: 01:07:21

Why do you have.

Rachel: 01:07:23

Why were you keeping tabs on me?

Rachel: 01:07:25

Because he had an article from.

Rachel: 01:07:28

About hen, like from three years ago.

Rachel: 01:07:31

But she doesn't get that opportunity because he is incapable.

Han: 01:07:36

Yeah, she kind of has to go through the stages of grief.

Han: 01:07:39

Yeah, right.

Han: 01:07:41

And mourn someone that she doesn't know and doesn't have a relationship with.

Han: 01:07:47

And she's having those what if thoughts.

Rachel: 01:07:50

Mourning what could have been.

Han: 01:07:52

Yes, mourning what could have been.

Han: 01:07:54

And she's like a little angry, but mostly she's just like, what the fuck do I do?

Han: 01:08:01

Like, why is.

Han: 01:08:02

Why.

Han: 01:08:02

Why is this up to me?

Han: 01:08:04

And she's doing a lot of external.

Han: 01:08:06

Working through it with chimney and with Karen.

Rachel: 01:08:12

And I feel like Athena.

Han: 01:08:15

And Athena.

Han: 01:08:16

Yeah.

Han: 01:08:16

Oh, yeah, sorry.

Rachel: 01:08:17

Her support system.

Han: 01:08:19

Yeah, her support system.

Han: 01:08:20

And I feel like this is a little bit of growth for her because I feel like we've talked about in some past episodes how Athena had to, like, pry things out of her to get her to talk through situations, and now she's like, just seeking people out, you know, offering up what's going on and just leaning on that support without like, having to, like, you know what I mean?

Rachel: 01:08:48

Yeah.

Rachel: 01:08:48

It's kind of.

Rachel: 01:08:49

If I may, it's kind of like Buck asking, you know, everyone else's opinions as well.

Rachel: 01:08:56

They're.

Rachel: 01:08:56

They're doing very much like they're going through these kind of success, which, I mean, Buck is going through, like, the grieving process for that as well.

Han: 01:09:05

Yeah.

Rachel: 01:09:06

So.

Rachel: 01:09:06

So hen is all like, you know, her.

Rachel: 01:09:09

Her dad is.

Rachel: 01:09:10

Is the ghost that haunts her brain, but she never has hated him enough to, like, want him to die or anything like that.

Rachel: 01:09:18

But she's never like, really felt a kindred, like, love for him.

Rachel: 01:09:22

And I thought that was a kind of tie to what she said with Ava.

Syl: 01:09:30

I just had the same thought.

Syl: 01:09:33

I just found that parallel too, because she says that she couldn't hate him enough to, you know, basically pull the plug on him.

Syl: 01:09:40

It's kind of like how she was so angry at Ava.

Syl: 01:09:46

Like, but she.

Syl: 01:09:47

But when Ava overdosed or.

Syl: 01:09:49

And was, I think, unconscious at the time, she.

Syl: 01:09:53

She had the choice of whether letting her live or die.

Syl: 01:09:56

Like, she could have walked away from that.

Syl: 01:09:58

But even though.

Syl: 01:09:59

Even though basically she just.

Syl: 01:10:02

She still saved her, even though Eva was this awful person that has hurt her numerous of times.

Rachel: 01:10:11

So.

Rachel: 01:10:11

So this is.

Rachel: 01:10:12

This is like the second time that she's had to deal with, like, you know, the life or death situation of someone who was supposed to love her.

Rachel: 01:10:24

Oof, that's rough, buddy.

Rachel: 01:10:31

And also, like.

Syl: 01:10:37

I can hear it in his voice.

Syl: 01:10:38

It's so bad.

Syl: 01:10:43

Oh, Dante Bosco, you have like, the most unique voice acting voice I've ever.

Rachel: 01:10:50

Oh, what a gift.

Syl: 01:10:51

Pinpoint that a mile away.

Han: 01:10:54

Yeah.

Rachel: 01:10:54

Wow.

Rachel: 01:10:55

Oh, my gosh.

Syl: 01:10:57

Honor.

Rachel: 01:10:58

But also, oh, my God.

Rachel: 01:11:07

But also when or when hen has her big confrontation with Eva and she's all like, I feel nothing for you.

Rachel: 01:11:15

It's like that apathy.

Rachel: 01:11:17

So it's kind of similar.

Rachel: 01:11:21

I think Hen's apathy for Ava is more.

Rachel: 01:11:25

Well, yeah, it's similar because she doesn't.

Rachel: 01:11:29

She didn't get what she needed to out of either of Them.

Rachel: 01:11:33

Because they were supposed to be people who loved her and they did not fulfill on that.

Han: 01:11:38

Yeah, I think it's worse with Ava, though, because, like.

Rachel: 01:11:42

Yes.

Rachel: 01:11:42

Yeah, because she was there.

Han: 01:11:45

Well, yes.

Han: 01:11:46

An adult.

Han: 01:11:47

And, you know, Ava was like.

Han: 01:11:51

Why do I want to say?

Han: 01:11:52

Nefarious?

Han: 01:11:53

Like, she, like, she was literally like, essentially a villain.

Han: 01:11:59

You know what I mean?

Han: 01:11:59

Like, she was doing shit to hurt her and fuck with her on purpose.

Rachel: 01:12:03

And, like, her dad isn't.

Rachel: 01:12:05

Ness isn't really a villain.

Rachel: 01:12:07

He's just kind of not there.

Han: 01:12:10

He doesn't exist to her.

Han: 01:12:11

It Like a void, like a sinkhole.

Rachel: 01:12:16

Oh, how many?

Syl: 01:12:18

How many?

Rachel: 01:12:20

How many?

Rachel: 01:12:25

That was good.

Han: 01:12:27

Thank you.

Syl: 01:12:28

Wow.

Rachel: 01:12:29

I didn't even.

Rachel: 01:12:31

So a little bit at the.

Rachel: 01:12:33

At the end where she has made her decision.

Rachel: 01:12:37

She kind of, like, there's an element of confession again from the last episode from dost, where she.

Rachel: 01:12:46

Where she is kind of in his comatose state.

Rachel: 01:12:51

She's kind of giving him an update on her life and all of the things that he's missed.

Rachel: 01:12:59

And she says that, you know, as she was growing up, he became like her diary, like confessions to imagine to an imaginary father.

Rachel: 01:13:11

And she.

Rachel: 01:13:12

She doesn't know him, so she.

Rachel: 01:13:15

She's mourning the loss of that relationship as well.

Rachel: 01:13:18

And she never gets to fully know why he was like that or.

Rachel: 01:13:23

Or what he was like or why he left her.

Rachel: 01:13:26

And she can only go off of what she would want.

Rachel: 01:13:30

And there we have, like, that empathy again.

Rachel: 01:13:32

So she's extending, you know, her empathy of, like, what she would want for someone to do for her to him who.

Rachel: 01:13:42

Who doesn't.

Rachel: 01:13:44

Hasn't really earned it at all.

Rachel: 01:13:49

And she said she.

Rachel: 01:13:51

She wouldn't want to live like this, like a ghost in a hospital, which is obviously very kind of nail on the head there, right?

Syl: 01:13:59

And it really connects to the call with the horse because of how.

Syl: 01:14:07

God, what do we call him?

Syl: 01:14:09

The horse handler.

Han: 01:14:11

I don't know his name.

Syl: 01:14:13

Police Horse Guy.

Han: 01:14:15

Horse Friend.

Syl: 01:14:16

Horse Friend.

Syl: 01:14:18

I wish I had a name for him.

Rachel: 01:14:20

Police Officer Horse Friend.

Syl: 01:14:22

Police Officer Horse Friend.

Syl: 01:14:24

God, that is so long.

Syl: 01:14:26

But anyway, just.

Rachel: 01:14:27

Officer Horse Friend.

Han: 01:14:29

Officer Officer Horse Friend.

Syl: 01:14:34

Officer Horse Friend already knows, like, the horse was suffering, and he just.

Syl: 01:14:40

He was like, please, just.

Syl: 01:14:42

Just, you know, put him down.

Syl: 01:14:43

And.

Syl: 01:14:44

And Han is like, can't.

Syl: 01:14:46

She's not.

Syl: 01:14:47

She couldn't grapple with that fact that she has.

Syl: 01:14:50

She's basically like, maybe we could try other things and not like, end this life.

Syl: 01:14:56

So it's like, kind of.

Syl: 01:14:58

It mirrors that.

Syl: 01:15:00

That situation mirrors the situation where she's like, I don't know if I have the choice of doing this or in pulling that plug.

Syl: 01:15:08

So, like, that's what I found interesting.

Rachel: 01:15:12

Yeah, absolutely.

Rachel: 01:15:13

I think she is also very, like, kind of realistic about things as well.

Rachel: 01:15:19

She's.

Rachel: 01:15:19

Because she says, like, you know, we don't have enough of this to, like.

Rachel: 01:15:24

Or animal control wouldn't come in time, and we don't have enough this.

Rachel: 01:15:27

Da, da, da, da.

Rachel: 01:15:29

So she is kind of like, she.

Rachel: 01:15:31

She is in paramedic mode, which we've discussed.

Rachel: 01:15:35

She is very, like, logical in that mode.

Rachel: 01:15:38

But we see that start to break down a little when she's about to inject the horse with I don't know what it was to put him to sleep.

Han: 01:15:51

And morphine.

Rachel: 01:15:54

Yeah.

Han: 01:15:54

Maybe they overdosed him with morphine.

Han: 01:15:58

Yeah.

Rachel: 01:16:00

So we do see that kind of wall, that compartmentalization of professionalism to bring that back into the conversation again.

Rachel: 01:16:14

We see that break down and she.

Rachel: 01:16:19

So much so, because she's obviously thinking about her dad in this kind of same situation, which, again, I don't know how I feel about, like, equating a person to an animal sort of thing, because I know that happens again.

Han: 01:16:32

Yeah, a couple times.

Rachel: 01:16:33

But, like, for the metaphor, will allow it, but she does.

Rachel: 01:16:41

Or.

Rachel: 01:16:41

Or she can't bring herself to do it in this case, which is maybe kind of unusual for her.

Rachel: 01:16:47

And so she can't bring herself to pull the plug, as it were, for the horse.

Rachel: 01:16:53

But Bobby is able to as part of her support system in a professional and personal setting as well.

Rachel: 01:17:02

He takes the weight off her shoulders.

Rachel: 01:17:05

So he.

Rachel: 01:17:05

There he is being Atlas again, and he's the one that.

Rachel: 01:17:10

That does it.

Rachel: 01:17:11

So it.

Rachel: 01:17:13

I think that that gave her, like, that whole experience with the horse kind of gave her that answer that she was looking for, that even though she wasn't able to bring herself to put the horse down herself.

Rachel: 01:17:29

It kind of gave her the, like, the push to be able to do it for her dad because she.

Rachel: 01:17:38

She wouldn't want to live as a ghost in a hospital.

Rachel: 01:17:42

And she.

Rachel: 01:17:44

She gives him forgiveness, which, again, is not earned or asked for, but she does that for herself and with empathy in order to let him go.

Rachel: 01:17:55

And there we have letting go again.

Rachel: 01:17:58

This whole episode is a.

Rachel: 01:18:00

Is a lot about letting go, too, in.

Rachel: 01:18:02

In very, like, very close personal aspects as opposed to letting go of things on the job, which we've been seeing a lot lately.

Syl: 01:18:13

And speaking of letting go, I just.

Rachel: 01:18:16

Wanted to say one quick other thing about the horse.

Syl: 01:18:20

Okay.

Syl: 01:18:22

You're really beating.

Rachel: 01:18:28

I'm trying to be nice.

Rachel: 01:18:31

Wow.

Rachel: 01:18:32

I just wanted to.

Han: 01:18:33

Very, very sorry that I thought of that.

Rachel: 01:18:37

Yeah, that one's on you.

Rachel: 01:18:39

That one's on you.

Han: 01:18:41

I went, oh, no.

Han: 01:18:43

Immediately wrote it down.

Rachel: 01:18:46

Oh, no.

Rachel: 01:18:47

This will be great.

Han: 01:18:48

But it's not my d.

Han: 01:18:50

I didn't do it.

Han: 01:18:50

I just noticed it.

Rachel: 01:18:53

No, it's fine.

Rachel: 01:18:54

Just very, very quickly, I wanted to mention how the police department and the firefighters kind of like locked arms in a show of respect and privacy for again, essentially a fallen comrade.

Rachel: 01:19:10

Right.

Rachel: 01:19:11

Because it was a police.

Rachel: 01:19:12

A police horse.

Han: 01:19:13

Police horse.

Rachel: 01:19:14

And so that's another example that will.

Rachel: 01:19:17

That we see in season two of one.

Rachel: 01:19:22

The, like the police and the firefighters and that kind of brotherhood supporting each other.

Rachel: 01:19:29

But also with the little girl in the Dorothy costume that has no parents.

Rachel: 01:19:35

Has no parents apparently, and made friends.

Rachel: 01:19:39

Made friends with the horse.

Rachel: 01:19:40

Serious moment.

Syl: 01:19:41

This is a serious show.

Rachel: 01:19:44

So serious.

Han: 01:19:46

It's a very serious, realistic show.

Han: 01:19:48

Okay.

Han: 01:19:50

Yeah.

Rachel: 01:19:50

What was she doing all by herself?

Han: 01:19:51

Jesus.

Han: 01:19:52

Following the yellow brick road, probably.

Han: 01:19:59

Rachel, please finish your thought.

Han: 01:20:01

I'm trying.

Han: 01:20:02

I'm going to shut up.

Rachel: 01:20:03

I'm trying.

Han: 01:20:03

Done.

Rachel: 01:20:04

Anyways, anyways, so the fact that like she kind of came in and was also there to help support the officer horse friend.

Rachel: 01:20:14

So that is, she's kind of the stand in for like the community and the public being affected and offering a shoulder to lean on for the police and for the firefighters as well.

Rachel: 01:20:27

So that's another foreshadowing to the very end of season two.

Rachel: 01:20:32

And I just wanted to make note of that.

Han: 01:20:35

Well, it's time to get booked.

Syl: 01:20:37

Yes, let's get booked, please.

Han: 01:20:42

I'm have that.

Han: 01:20:43

I have that stuck in my head.

Rachel: 01:20:44

It's so good.

Han: 01:20:46

So.

Han: 01:20:46

So book is basically, he already came to the conclusion that he needs to move on, but he's also uncertain because, like, he's still kind of glomming onto this thing where he thought he found that connection that he was looking for.

Han: 01:21:07

So he's like looking at it logically.

Han: 01:21:10

He's like, I should move on.

Han: 01:21:11

But emotionally he's like, what if he's still stuck?

Han: 01:21:16

Yeah, he's still stuck.

Han: 01:21:18

And he's thinking about, but what if I let go and she comes back?

Han: 01:21:22

He's trying.

Han: 01:21:23

He's thinking about, like, what could could happen if like their relationship could continue.

Han: 01:21:28

But he knows and logically and also like deep down you know that he needs to move on.

Han: 01:21:36

He does this by making the rounds of people he knows to get validation in that fact because, you know, asking.

Han: 01:21:50

He has an aversion to therapy for good reason.

Rachel: 01:21:55

Oh, I saw a tweet earlier, and someone said the reason he does online therapy is because he can't do in person therapy anymore.

Rachel: 01:22:08

And.

Han: 01:22:10

Oh, wow, I've never thought about that.

Han: 01:22:12

And now I am sad.

Rachel: 01:22:14

I mean, it was also.

Rachel: 01:22:15

Because it was like, wasn't it?

Syl: 01:22:18

But, yeah, I was gonna say it wasn't a Covid.

Rachel: 01:22:22

Yeah.

Rachel: 01:22:23

But I think, like, if he were to continue doing it, I think.

Rachel: 01:22:30

Anyways, that's neither here nor there at the moment.

Han: 01:22:34

So, yeah, he.

Han: 01:22:35

He has a conversation with Maddie where he basically says all things that I opened this segment up with, which is.

Rachel: 01:22:48

Like, well, I thought the conversation was so great because they started talking about this.

Rachel: 01:22:57

The hiker ghost call.

Rachel: 01:22:59

Right.

Rachel: 01:23:00

And then it so seamlessly transitioned to like, wait, we're not talking about that anymore, are we?

Rachel: 01:23:08

And you can really see it, I think, especially on Maddie's face kind of first.

Rachel: 01:23:14

I think Buck realizes it a little afterwards, but Maddie is like, oh, this is.

Rachel: 01:23:23

You're projecting.

Rachel: 01:23:26

We're not talking about the high grounds anymore.

Han: 01:23:28

Projecting.

Rachel: 01:23:29

We're talking about you now.

Rachel: 01:23:32

And you can kind of see that in her expression as she realizes that because she starts.

Rachel: 01:23:41

You can really see her empathy coming through because she already says, oh, it must be awful to have to declare someone dead after seven years and admit that you lost hope.

Rachel: 01:23:52

And Buck, who is usually.

Rachel: 01:23:57

And we've said this from the beginning with the earthquake scene or call, he's been so optimistic, and he's always just like, we can do it.

Rachel: 01:24:09

We can make it out of here.

Rachel: 01:24:10

I like our chances sort of stuff.

Rachel: 01:24:12

And he's just kind of like, no one can wait forever.

Rachel: 01:24:17

And Maddie's just kind of like, oh, Evan, you know, in the.

Rachel: 01:24:24

I didn't do it right.

Rachel: 01:24:25

But in the way that she says, yeah, his name.

Rachel: 01:24:28

It's that transition there that it's like, oh, we're not.

Rachel: 01:24:33

We're talking about you now.

Rachel: 01:24:34

And how he is losing hope in, you know, trying to wait out this relationship that he's been so adamant and proud to, you know, prove to himself and everyone else, like we've spoken about, that he can make it work.

Rachel: 01:24:53

And he's.

Rachel: 01:24:54

And that hope is fading fast or is kind of already gone, but he.

Rachel: 01:25:00

He's looking for a Hail Mary, I guess.

Han: 01:25:02

Well, so like we talked about with hen, he's also going through the stages of grief right now.

Han: 01:25:08

It's the death of a relationship.

Han: 01:25:11

So, like, the beginning monologue might sound like it's not about him, but it is, because it's Always about him.

Rachel: 01:25:20

They say that.

Rachel: 01:25:20

Not everything.

Rachel: 01:25:21

Especially if he's talking about me.

Rachel: 01:25:23

But what if it is?

Rachel: 01:25:25

It's always about him.

Han: 01:25:27

One day I'll have time to finish making that edit.

Han: 01:25:30

It's his song.

Rachel: 01:25:31

Yeah.

Rachel: 01:25:32

Like, it really is.

Rachel: 01:25:34

It's.

Rachel: 01:25:34

It's.

Rachel: 01:25:36

It's losing.

Han: 01:25:39

I was going to read it.

Han: 01:25:40

He talks about, like, there's one hard thing in this job.

Han: 01:25:43

It's one way.

Han: 01:25:44

It's one way or another, this day or the next, eventually everything dies.

Han: 01:25:49

His death of a relationship.

Rachel: 01:25:52

Right.

Rachel: 01:25:52

That's not optimistic at all.

Han: 01:25:54

No.

Han: 01:25:54

And for most people, the only thing worse than losing someone you love is knowing that one day you will.

Han: 01:25:59

So he has been living, like, in this fear of knowing that she's, like, alive, but knowing that he was gonna lose her.

Han: 01:26:08

As in lose the relationship.

Rachel: 01:26:12

I think this quote.

Rachel: 01:26:15

Is this the first.

Han: 01:26:17

It's the beginning voiceover.

Rachel: 01:26:20

Yeah, I know.

Rachel: 01:26:21

Is this the first opening voiceover with Buck?

Rachel: 01:26:25

Yeah.

Rachel: 01:26:26

Or did we get.

Rachel: 01:26:27

Did we get something in season one?

Rachel: 01:26:30

I always want to say the full moon, but that's 10.

Han: 01:26:34

I don't think so.

Rachel: 01:26:35

Okay.

Han: 01:26:35

Because the only voiceovers that I really actually like are bugs.

Rachel: 01:26:41

I understand that.

Han: 01:26:42

I'm like, I'm.

Han: 01:26:43

I'm seated here for this, but.

Han: 01:26:47

Yeah.

Rachel: 01:26:48

So I.

Rachel: 01:26:50

I really like this opening monologue because it is very layered because it's obviously like, you know, losing someone, like.

Rachel: 01:26:59

Like death and dying.

Rachel: 01:27:01

But I think this brings up a lot of, like, the main lessons that he learned in season one, especially, like, from episode two on, where he lost the person from the roller coaster.

Rachel: 01:27:20

He was there.

Rachel: 01:27:22

And witnessing Abby's.

Rachel: 01:27:24

When Abby lost her mom physically, when she was all over, when they were trying to find her, but then also losing her in, like, a mortality sense, and him being there for that and him being there for Abby.

Rachel: 01:27:42

And so, like, this.

Rachel: 01:27:44

This loss in more ways than just death, because he's.

Rachel: 01:27:48

He's losing.

Rachel: 01:27:49

He's lost contact with her as well.

Rachel: 01:27:52

So I think it.

Rachel: 01:27:55

I think it is, like, very, very layered in that way, too, which it.

Rachel: 01:28:03

It hurts.

Han: 01:28:03

The analogy is like watching someone slowly die.

Han: 01:28:07

Right.

Rachel: 01:28:08

Like that.

Han: 01:28:09

It's like watching someone.

Han: 01:28:10

Yeah.

Han: 01:28:11

Like knowing that they're.

Han: 01:28:12

They're going to die, but not knowing how long it's going to take and watching it get deteriorate worse and worse.

Han: 01:28:20

So that's what.

Han: 01:28:21

What's happening.

Han: 01:28:22

They were talking less and less frequently, and the conversations are shorter and shorter.

Rachel: 01:28:27

The relationship was on life support, just like hen's dad.

Rachel: 01:28:34

No, no.

Rachel: 01:28:35

Like, honestly, because here you are.

Rachel: 01:28:37

You're like Watching this thing in front of you just kind of, like, waste away.

Rachel: 01:28:42

Exactly.

Rachel: 01:28:45

So you have to decide whether or not to pull the plug.

Syl: 01:28:48

Yeah.

Syl: 01:28:49

I mean, his hope was also dying, too.

Syl: 01:28:52

So many deaths.

Han: 01:28:53

Well, he's realizing that trying to wait for her to come back is beating a dead horse, so.

Syl: 01:29:02

And it's also, like, keeping him away from, like, well, figuring out who he is without her.

Han: 01:29:09

Yeah.

Syl: 01:29:10

So.

Syl: 01:29:10

Because, like, at the end, he does mention that.

Syl: 01:29:14

That he will always love her for making him a better man.

Han: 01:29:21

But.

Han: 01:29:22

Yeah.

Syl: 01:29:22

That he needs to, like, figure out who he is and, like, she.

Syl: 01:29:26

Like, keeping that hope alive that she would come back or whatever.

Syl: 01:29:31

Like, that's just going.

Syl: 01:29:32

That he.

Syl: 01:29:33

He's just gonna.

Syl: 01:29:34

It's.

Syl: 01:29:35

It's just there's.

Syl: 01:29:36

There's no purpose.

Syl: 01:29:37

There's no.

Syl: 01:29:37

I mean, there's no point anymore.

Syl: 01:29:39

And I think even Maddie says that to him.

Syl: 01:29:41

That.

Rachel: 01:29:42

Yeah, I have the quote.

Syl: 01:29:44

Okay, go ahead.

Rachel: 01:29:46

So Maddie says losing hope is a tricky thing.

Rachel: 01:29:49

It keeps you going for a while, but at some point, if what you're hoping for is never going to happen, then it's just holding you back from your life, like, being stuck.

Han: 01:29:59

Can I read the ending Voiceover with commentary since so brought it up.

Han: 01:30:06

So he says we are all haunted by the ones we've loved and the ones we've lost, by the choices we've made and the ones we will struggle with.

Han: 01:30:12

Our lives are like a series of ghost stories.

Han: 01:30:15

Sometimes all we can do is turn the page, let go.

Han: 01:30:18

And then when he says that, it's literal flat line noises from.

Han: 01:30:25

Oh, from Ben's father.

Rachel: 01:30:27

Wait, I didn't catch that.

Han: 01:30:29

And so, like, literally, she's letting go.

Han: 01:30:32

And it's, like, also symbolic of the death.

Han: 01:30:35

Flat lining of their relationship.

Han: 01:30:38

Of the Buck Abby relationship.

Rachel: 01:30:40

Yeah.

Han: 01:30:41

So.

Han: 01:30:42

And this is his letter.

Han: 01:30:43

The ending voiceover is his letter to Abby.

Rachel: 01:30:47

I also love how it transitions to that as well.

Han: 01:30:50

Yes.

Han: 01:30:51

So then he continues.

Han: 01:30:53

That's what I need to do now.

Han: 01:30:55

Let go.

Han: 01:30:56

I'm not sure if you'll ever come back or how I'll feel if you do.

Han: 01:31:01

We'll find out next season.

Han: 01:31:02

But I am sure that I cannot wait anymore.

Han: 01:31:05

You are my ghost story, Abby.

Han: 01:31:07

You are the amazing spirit that blew into my life, turns it upside down, and then vanished into the night.

Han: 01:31:11

Being with you made me a better man.

Han: 01:31:13

And for that, I will always love you.

Han: 01:31:15

I don't like the wording.

Han: 01:31:16

And I know that we've already discussed him attributing, like, all of his growth to her, and I get that.

Han: 01:31:27

You learn and grow and change from the people in your life.

Han: 01:31:33

But I just hate that.

Han: 01:31:34

Like, he's like, you made me a better man.

Han: 01:31:38

Not like, getting to knowing you.

Han: 01:31:41

Being with you made me a better.

Han: 01:31:43

You know what I mean?

Han: 01:31:43

Like, just the wording of it feels like he's not attributing any of his growth to himself.

Rachel: 01:31:49

It downplays his like.

Rachel: 01:31:52

Like personality.

Syl: 01:31:54

It.

Han: 01:31:54

It downplays his like, agency.

Rachel: 01:31:57

Yeah.

Han: 01:31:58

Like.

Han: 01:31:59

I don't know.

Han: 01:32:00

The way it's worded is very much like you molded me into this.

Han: 01:32:03

And like, she didn't.

Han: 01:32:04

She didn't do shit.

Han: 01:32:06

He was.

Rachel: 01:32:06

He like.

Rachel: 01:32:07

Okay.

Rachel: 01:32:08

It downplays the potential that he always had inside him.

Rachel: 01:32:13

Yes, she may have helped unlock it, but he always had the potential to be this person.

Rachel: 01:32:20

And if it wasn't Abby, it might have been someone else to.

Rachel: 01:32:23

Or himself to help unlock it.

Rachel: 01:32:24

But like, he.

Rachel: 01:32:26

He had it in him all along.

Syl: 01:32:31

It was him all along.

Syl: 01:32:32

It was Buck all along.

Han: 01:32:37

But yeah, the way he.

Han: 01:32:38

He words it, he's like, you're my ghost story.

Han: 01:32:40

Which is, you know, everyone's.

Han: 01:32:43

Everyone's haunting.

Han: 01:32:44

And all of these are ghost stories, right?

Han: 01:32:46

For everyone here.

Han: 01:32:48

But his is.

Han: 01:32:49

His is spec.

Han: 01:32:50

Well, these are all kind of different versions, right?

Rachel: 01:32:53

Yeah.

Han: 01:32:54

So hises had someone.

Han: 01:32:56

They just disappeared.

Rachel: 01:32:59

Like the most classic kind of ghost.

Han: 01:33:00

The most classic.

Han: 01:33:03

And then Henzes never really knew them because they left when she was a child, came back, but too little, too late.

Han: 01:33:11

Too little, too late.

Han: 01:33:12

And then Eddie has someone who ghosted him and is coming back.

Han: 01:33:19

But the coming back is the haunting.

Han: 01:33:20

We'll get into that when we talk about Eddie.

Rachel: 01:33:22

Eddie is the only one that gets to kind of have this second chance.

Rachel: 01:33:26

Well, Athena kind of has a second.

Syl: 01:33:30

Oh, I thought you were gonna say ghosts have a second chance.

Syl: 01:33:32

And I was like, oh, no, not again.

Rachel: 01:33:35

Kind of.

Rachel: 01:33:36

I was gonna word it differently, like, because none of these other.

Rachel: 01:33:43

I mean, except I guess you could say, like, Athena had this chance to give someone else, and eventually she will get a second chance at solving both of these.

Rachel: 01:33:54

Both of her ghosts.

Rachel: 01:33:56

Right, but not right now.

Rachel: 01:33:57

So technically, at the moment, Eddie is the only one that gets the opportunity to try again.

Han: 01:34:09

I think the rest of that line was self explanatory.

Han: 01:34:11

The blowing into my life, turn it upside down, vanish into the night.

Han: 01:34:14

That's.

Han: 01:34:14

That's what she did.

Rachel: 01:34:17

Yeah.

Han: 01:34:18

She showed up and was like, I'm interested in you.

Han: 01:34:20

And then bye.

Han: 01:34:22

Was not.

Han: 01:34:23

But just didn't communicate that to him.

Rachel: 01:34:26

I.

Rachel: 01:34:26

I think.

Rachel: 01:34:27

Yeah.

Rachel: 01:34:28

What did I say?

Han: 01:34:28

Like, because when he's talking to Carla.

Han: 01:34:32

He says.

Han: 01:34:33

He's like.

Han: 01:34:34

The voice in my head says, like, move.

Han: 01:34:36

Like, move on.

Han: 01:34:37

She's never going to come back.

Han: 01:34:39

And Carla says she still cares about you.

Han: 01:34:41

She.

Han: 01:34:42

She does not reassure him in any way that, like, she wants to be with him, that she's ever going to come back.

Han: 01:34:50

Goes on to say, you know, she needs to come home, but not to this one.

Han: 01:34:55

And then he finds out that she is coming back to the States but is going to stay with her brother.

Syl: 01:35:01

Right.

Han: 01:35:01

And he didn't know any of this because she cut off contact.

Rachel: 01:35:05

Just a note.

Rachel: 01:35:06

Once we get into Eddie, can we talk about.

Rachel: 01:35:09

And we get to talk about Carla, can we.

Rachel: 01:35:12

Can we touch on the role that she plays for both of them in this episode?

Rachel: 01:35:18

About, like.

Rachel: 01:35:19

Or maybe I'll just say it now, but the role that she.

Rachel: 01:35:23

That she plays in being the.

Han: 01:35:27

Different voice.

Rachel: 01:35:29

Like, not necessarily a voice of reason, but it's like someone who kind of gives.

Rachel: 01:35:34

Is supposed to be giving the reality dose but is not very helpful or what.

Rachel: 01:35:43

Like, what they truly need to hear.

Rachel: 01:35:46

It's.

Rachel: 01:35:46

It's the same thing we kind of see with Bobby a little bit where.

Rachel: 01:35:49

Where he's giving good advice, but it's just, like, slightly off the mark.

Rachel: 01:35:54

This kind of.

Rachel: 01:35:55

Same with Carla, except I think it's even further off the mark.

Rachel: 01:35:58

I think she.

Han: 01:35:58

I think she's giving advice based on, you know, a quarter of the picture is part of the problem, but I think the way that she gives them advice is very different.

Rachel: 01:36:11

Yes.

Han: 01:36:11

Because for Buck, she's just saying, like.

Han: 01:36:15

I mean, she said the whole I don't take sides thing, but the whole.

Han: 01:36:19

The way she talks to both of them is very much taking aside.

Han: 01:36:23

And we'll get into the version of Eddie is, you know, when we're done with Buck here in a little bit.

Han: 01:36:28

But with Buck, it's like, she does have a side, though, because she's kind of on Abby's side because she's not giving an alternate perspective.

Han: 01:36:38

She's not, like, acknowledging his pain.

Han: 01:36:41

And, like, he's talking like, he's not giving her, like, deep details, but she's not really, like, yeah, you're right.

Han: 01:36:49

Like, you should do what's best for you.

Han: 01:36:51

She just kind of, like, listens to him talk, and the only thing she really offers is, like, she still cares about you, and then is talking about, you know, like, what Abby needs to do for Abby and doesn't do it.

Rachel: 01:37:08

Is this making sense?

Rachel: 01:37:10

No, it makes sense.

Rachel: 01:37:11

I'm just trying to, like, figure out, like, how to piece this.

Rachel: 01:37:16

I have, like, a couple different, like, piecemeals of thoughts in.

Rachel: 01:37:20

In my head, and I'm trying to figure out, like, how to stitch them together, because it's like, I kind of wonder if she.

Rachel: 01:37:28

If she does that a little bit, because either a.

Rachel: 01:37:33

Like, she already has an inkling or already knows that Buck is.

Rachel: 01:37:38

Is, like, ready to move on.

Rachel: 01:37:42

So she's saying this to help put that final nail in the coffin so he will, essentially.

Rachel: 01:37:51

So she does so in this scenario, right?

Rachel: 01:37:54

In this perspective, maybe she's saying all of these things because she knows it's going to give him enough closure, like, the closure that he has access to at the moment, which isn't enough, or it's.

Rachel: 01:38:13

Or it's not everything, but it may be just enough to kind of, like, help him close that chapter sort of thing.

Rachel: 01:38:19

So I wonder if it's a little bit like her having that kind of empathy.

Rachel: 01:38:25

Like, I need.

Rachel: 01:38:25

Like, he's.

Rachel: 01:38:26

He's stuck.

Rachel: 01:38:28

I need to help, you know, enlighten.

Rachel: 01:38:31

Let him see the light or help enlighten him or something like that.

Rachel: 01:38:35

So she's going to kind of give him the tough truths to kind of push him out that door, or if it.

Rachel: 01:38:43

If it is her kind of taking sides, but not, like, super intentionally, you know, but.

Rachel: 01:38:51

But it seems like it's.

Rachel: 01:38:52

It's so.

Rachel: 01:38:54

I don't know, complex and complicated because, like, she is, like, a very intuitive person, and this whole episode is a lot about empathy and stuff like that, but we don't see her really empathize with Buck or with Buck or Eddie with their side.

Rachel: 01:39:10

So it makes me kind of wonder if, in this instance, she's doing it on purpose to help get him unstuck.

Syl: 01:39:17

Well, this is kind of like the.

Syl: 01:39:19

The biggest update he's ever had about Abby.

Rachel: 01:39:22

Right?

Han: 01:39:23

So, yeah, in a while.

Han: 01:39:25

And just the fact that, like, he said that to her, and he's like, I want an opinion from that.

Han: 01:39:31

And she's like, I'm neutral.

Han: 01:39:32

But then opens it up with, like, she knows exactly what's going on with Abby because Abby talks to her.

Syl: 01:39:39

But that's like, after.

Syl: 01:39:40

But that's, like, after he says his, you know, first piece.

Syl: 01:39:44

So, like, that's when I feel like, no.

Syl: 01:39:47

Okay, full disclosure, disclaimer.

Syl: 01:39:50

I don't like anything that Carla does here.

Han: 01:39:54

Oh, I hate everything she does in this episode.

Syl: 01:39:56

I don't like it.

Han: 01:39:57

I normally.

Syl: 01:39:57

I don't like it.

Han: 01:39:58

Love Carla.

Han: 01:39:58

I'm a Carla Stan.

Han: 01:40:00

But, like, not a fan in this episode.

Syl: 01:40:02

I don't like it for Buck or Eddie, but I feel like after he said his piece, she was like, okay, so here, let me give you your breadcrumbs so you can make that decision.

Syl: 01:40:13

I think that's what you are going.

Rachel: 01:40:15

Yeah, that's right, Rachel.

Rachel: 01:40:17

Yeah.

Rachel: 01:40:19

That is kind of what I was thinking.

Rachel: 01:40:21

I know.

Rachel: 01:40:22

And that's what makes Carla in this episode so weird to me because she, she doesn't have very clear motives.

Rachel: 01:40:33

Like.

Rachel: 01:40:33

Like everything that she.

Rachel: 01:40:35

That she says is kind of muddled.

Rachel: 01:40:37

I like, I don't know if she's.

Han: 01:40:40

I wonder if it's just like a.

Han: 01:40:41

Her being a girls girl thing.

Syl: 01:40:43

It might be.

Han: 01:40:44

And empathizing more with the women in the situations.

Han: 01:40:48

I know that she really empathizes with with Abby because she was there for, you know, everything she went through with her mother at the end.

Han: 01:40:57

But.

Han: 01:40:58

Yeah, I don't know.

Han: 01:40:59

It was just.

Han: 01:41:01

It was just really weird the way that this.

Han: 01:41:04

There was like, no, he was like, I want opinions, like, I want advice.

Han: 01:41:08

And she was just like, here's a couple facts.

Han: 01:41:11

And then when he.

Han: 01:41:12

Her face, when he says at the end of their conversation before that scene ends, he says, I felt like I was being haunted by this memory of her, but maybe I'm the ghost lingering here when I should have moved on a long time ago.

Han: 01:41:25

And it pants to her and she's like, like floored, taken aback, like, so I don't know if she knew that.

Rachel: 01:41:34

He had this much depth, thought that.

Han: 01:41:35

He was gonna keep waiting or like try to keep going after her now that she told him where she was.

Rachel: 01:41:44

Yeah, I.

Rachel: 01:41:46

I kind of wonder now talking, talking about this if Carla is just a stand in to be a.

Rachel: 01:41:57

Like a Buck and Eddie talking to themselves like she is a reflection of what they want or what they think they need to hear.

Rachel: 01:42:13

I think that's it.

Rachel: 01:42:14

I think she's a reflection of what they think they need to hear, not necessarily what will be the most helpful for them.

Han: 01:42:21

Yeah.

Rachel: 01:42:22

Because Buck had like we said, Buck has kind of already made his decision.

Han: 01:42:27

Yeah.

Rachel: 01:42:28

But he needed that final push.

Rachel: 01:42:30

And not only is Carla like the only other person in his life who know who has like seen Abby.

Rachel: 01:42:40

Well, I guess Bobby, but.

Rachel: 01:42:43

And some of the 118 but like have a better understanding of Abby and therefore can like offer more of like his, like, like the knowledge that he has in his psyche sort of thing to kind of like have her be the.

Rachel: 01:43:03

His thoughts personified.

Rachel: 01:43:06

So he's kind of already decided, I think I need to end it I think I need to move on.

Rachel: 01:43:13

So here's Carla being like, yep, she's moved on.

Rachel: 01:43:17

She's not even coming home.

Rachel: 01:43:19

She's going to her brother's house, and she's gonna come home, but not to this home.

Rachel: 01:43:24

And that's what, like, gives Buck, like, what he thinks he needs to hear.

Rachel: 01:43:30

And it's.

Rachel: 01:43:31

It's a little bit of a harsher reality, because that's what he thinks he needs to.

Rachel: 01:43:37

That's what he believes he needs to hear in order to, like, actually get out.

Rachel: 01:43:43

I think that's it.

Rachel: 01:43:44

So, like, we'll talk about that with Eddie, because I think that makes the most sense to me in, like, why Carla's so, like.

Rachel: 01:43:53

I think that's un.

Rachel: 01:43:54

Carla.

Rachel: 01:43:54

Y.

Han: 01:43:55

The only thing that I can make sense of it now that you brought it up.

Han: 01:44:00

Like, otherwise, I just don't know.

Rachel: 01:44:03

Okay, cool.

Rachel: 01:44:04

I'm glad that makes a little sense because, like, it's so much easier to, like, talk these things out sometimes.

Han: 01:44:10

Yeah.

Rachel: 01:44:11

So.

Han: 01:44:13

So, like, in conclusion of the thing that I've been reading for 20 minutes.

Rachel: 01:44:16

Sorry.

Han: 01:44:18

It's okay.

Han: 01:44:19

So it ends with him.

Han: 01:44:21

I mean, you see him when he's writing the letter.

Han: 01:44:22

Like, it zooms in on the letter to her care of her brother.

Han: 01:44:27

Scottsdale, Arizona.

Han: 01:44:28

No return address.

Han: 01:44:30

Because, twofold, I don't think he really wants to hear from her.

Han: 01:44:34

And second of all, he doesn't know where he's going to be living, just that he can't stay there anymore and says, now it's time for me to figure out who I am without you.

Han: 01:44:47

And he does all of that while we're listening to the Amber Run song.

Han: 01:44:52

And, oh, it's just so good.

Han: 01:44:54

I love when Buck.

Han: 01:44:56

I love when Buck actually chooses himself.

Han: 01:45:00

Well, I love Buck always.

Han: 01:45:01

But I love when I see him make actions for himself, because you tend to see him just doing things for other people.

Han: 01:45:10

So when he prioritizes himself, I'm like, s.

Han: 01:45:15

They grow up so fast.

Rachel: 01:45:17

And that's why he's wearing red, because he is prioritizing himself kind of to that extent.

Rachel: 01:45:28

The whole, like, him not knowing where he's gonna live.

Rachel: 01:45:33

Like, that whole.

Rachel: 01:45:34

Both Abby and Buck are the ghosts that haunt this apartment.

Rachel: 01:45:39

He.

Rachel: 01:45:39

He also says, like, you know, the apartment is hers, but she feels less and less a part of it every day.

Rachel: 01:45:44

And we have talked about how, like, he doesn't have, like, a stake in that environment as well.

Rachel: 01:45:52

Like, none of that environment is his.

Rachel: 01:45:55

So he needs to find.

Rachel: 01:45:57

He literally needs to find a place of his own.

Rachel: 01:46:01

Both literally as an.

Rachel: 01:46:04

As in a dwelling to live and metaphorically, you know, when.

Rachel: 01:46:09

When he doesn't feel like he's getting pulled under or drowning in the haunted memories.

Rachel: 01:46:19

I guess we could say that's a tsunami reference, not a well reference.

Han: 01:46:23

Yeah, no, I got that.

Rachel: 01:46:27

Also, but.

Han: 01:46:29

Our boy trained for the seals, so he can hold his breath for a long time.

Rachel: 01:46:34

True.

Han: 01:46:34

And that's something that I need the show and fic writers to talk about more.

Han: 01:46:37

Thank you so much.

Rachel: 01:46:40

Thank you in advance.

Rachel: 01:46:41

I also wanted to brief, like, I know we've gotten into, like, the.

Syl: 01:46:47

She doesn't want to say the meat of it.

Rachel: 01:46:49

I know.

Rachel: 01:46:50

I don't want to say.

Rachel: 01:46:51

Why do you have a problem with that?

Rachel: 01:46:53

I don't know.

Han: 01:46:54

And I said it.

Han: 01:46:55

I've said it since the beginning.

Han: 01:46:56

It was, like, randomly, a one random episode.

Han: 01:46:59

You were like, ew.

Syl: 01:47:00

It's really funny because, like, I've heard that phrase in corporate spaces.

Rachel: 01:47:06

It was the way you said meaty slow burn.

Rachel: 01:47:11

And I don't know, it just.

Rachel: 01:47:13

It just made me, like.

Han: 01:47:15

Sounds like a you problem.

Rachel: 01:47:16

It is a me problem.

Rachel: 01:47:17

I don't.

Rachel: 01:47:17

I don't generally have a problem with it.

Rachel: 01:47:20

It was just like, that one instance, and I was like, I think it was spongebob.

Rachel: 01:47:25

Like, big, meaty claws.

Rachel: 01:47:27

That's probably where I went with that.

Rachel: 01:47:29

Anyway, so now I know that we've gotten to, like, the crux of Buck's storyline in this episode, but I did kind of want to bring up a couple things about him when.

Rachel: 01:47:44

When the horse.

Rachel: 01:47:45

When the horse was dying.

Syl: 01:47:49

I can't believe you were able to watch it.

Syl: 01:47:51

I only watched it once, and I said, ah, this is the last time I'm watching this scene.

Rachel: 01:47:55

Oh, it's.

Rachel: 01:47:57

It's a really tough watch.

Rachel: 01:47:58

But the.

Rachel: 01:48:00

The way, like, you can see Buck's optimism come through in that.

Rachel: 01:48:04

When he was like, no, we can.

Rachel: 01:48:06

I don't think the splint is gonna fit, but we can find a way to, like, you know, Jerry rig it.

Rachel: 01:48:12

And.

Rachel: 01:48:12

And you, like, you see his optimism.

Rachel: 01:48:15

His first instinct is to try to save the horse, even though everyone else is kind of like, it's probably not gonna.

Rachel: 01:48:23

Gonna happen this time.

Rachel: 01:48:26

And all of.

Rachel: 01:48:27

All of the things that Officer Horse Friend was saying where it's like, I.

Rachel: 01:48:34

I felt like, okay, this is kind of weird, but I feel like everything he was saying to the horse kind of can apply to Buck as well, because he was saying, like, he's a good boy.

Rachel: 01:48:44

I just don't want him to suffer anymore.

Rachel: 01:48:46

And you don't have to be calm or strong or brave.

Rachel: 01:48:49

You can just be free.

Rachel: 01:48:51

And I feel like that could have applied to Buck as well.

Rachel: 01:48:56

Yeah, they're putting the.

Han: 01:48:57

He's putting the relationship down because he doesn't want to beat a dead horse.

Rachel: 01:49:00

Yeah, he doesn't.

Rachel: 01:49:01

He.

Rachel: 01:49:03

He's letting.

Han: 01:49:04

It was the most heavy handed fucking thing I've probably ever seen them do to this point.

Rachel: 01:49:09

Yeah, I mean he, he doesn't want himself to suffer anymore through that.

Rachel: 01:49:14

So that's why he's allowing himself to let go.

Rachel: 01:49:17

But also the when.

Rachel: 01:49:20

When they're at the cemetery at the end of the call and how he's kind of spooked like a horse when Hen brings up like disturbing the spirits.

Rachel: 01:49:32

But also he's the only one there that we see look back at that bulldozer and see it collapse into the sinkhole.

Rachel: 01:49:42

And that's kind of like a metaphor about how he has been walking on eggshells and bubble wrap, as they say, around his relationship with Abby, and it's finally about to give way.

Rachel: 01:49:52

So I felt like that was like metaphor foreshadowing for like the release, the collapse.

Han: 01:50:02

I just had a brain blast really quick.

Han: 01:50:06

So the whole lesson about not beating a dead horse.

Han: 01:50:09

Right.

Han: 01:50:10

The people who learned the lesson, who's missing.

Rachel: 01:50:18

I knew there was something to that.

Rachel: 01:50:21

Oh, wait, that's so true.

Rachel: 01:50:24

That's so true.

Rachel: 01:50:25

Because both Hen and Buck are there and they learn from that instance and are able to take that lesson and carry it out for their own needs.

Rachel: 01:50:37

But who's not there?

Rachel: 01:50:40

Eddie never learned that lesson.

Rachel: 01:50:42

Hasn't yet.

Han: 01:50:44

He still hasn't.

Syl: 01:50:46

Oh, that's exactly what I was going to say.

Syl: 01:50:47

Like maybe if he was actually there, maybe all of the shit that has happened to him, the far would not have happened to him.

Syl: 01:50:54

Blowing up his life by dating or seeing the ghost of his ex wife dead.

Syl: 01:51:00

Ex wife.

Rachel: 01:51:02

Could, could you, could you think of like the butterfly effect of the things that would not have come to pass if he was at.

Han: 01:51:11

If he had learned that lesson.

Rachel: 01:51:12

If he.

Han: 01:51:13

Yeah.

Rachel: 01:51:13

Was at that call and seeing the horse being put to sleep.

Rachel: 01:51:18

Wow.

Rachel: 01:51:19

That's going in our what ifs for season two.

Han: 01:51:23

Oh, yeah.

Rachel: 01:51:25

Excellent brain blast.

Rachel: 01:51:27

Whoa.

Rachel: 01:51:28

Whoa.

Han: 01:51:30

Yeah.

Han: 01:51:30

What if he didn't try to beat a dead horse?

Han: 01:51:33

Oh, how would the rest of the season have gone?

Han: 01:51:35

Because that's literally all he does for the rest of the season.

Rachel: 01:51:41

Let flying dogs lie or something.

Rachel: 01:51:44

I don't know.

Syl: 01:51:47

Oh.

Han: 01:51:48

Oh, I love him so much.

Rachel: 01:51:50

So anyways, the one person who wasn't there and didn't learn this lesson.

Syl: 01:51:56

I don't even know.

Syl: 01:51:58

I don't know where to begin with this man.

Rachel: 01:51:59

Right?

Syl: 01:52:01

This man.

Syl: 01:52:04

You guys know him, Eddie Diaz, He's.

Syl: 01:52:09

I don't know if I could, like, throw away the.

Syl: 01:52:11

Like, if I could just throw everything and like.

Syl: 01:52:15

Like, you know, throw the desk away and everything.

Syl: 01:52:18

Just.

Syl: 01:52:19

Just to give you guys a mental picture of how sometimes I feel about him.

Rachel: 01:52:26

Let's tell us how you feel.

Syl: 01:52:28

So listen, okay, we get.

Syl: 01:52:33

We get.

Syl: 01:52:33

We.

Syl: 01:52:35

We get to meet fucking Shannon.

Syl: 01:52:37

Okay.

Rachel: 01:52:38

Sorry.

Syl: 01:52:39

That was so mean.

Han: 01:52:42

Okay, Oliver.

Rachel: 01:52:45

Sorry, I forgot I was supposed to be nice.

Syl: 01:52:49

This is a very terrible transition.

Syl: 01:52:51

Please bear with me.

Syl: 01:52:52

So anyway, yeah, we get to meet Shannon finally.

Syl: 01:52:55

I really would love to throw everything off of my desk, actually.

Syl: 01:52:59

Flip the desk, flip the table and do all the things.

Syl: 01:53:01

Because what Eddie does by the end of this makes me want to.

Syl: 01:53:06

Anyway, so we finally get to meet the mysterious.

Syl: 01:53:13

Well, she's just shrouded in a little bit of mystery.

Syl: 01:53:16

We get to meet Shannon.

Syl: 01:53:18

We get the immense lore drop of, like, Shannon, where she's been, what she's been doing, why she left.

Syl: 01:53:25

Why she left Eddie and Christopher, how long it's been.

Syl: 01:53:31

And then.

Syl: 01:53:33

And then, actually.

Syl: 01:53:34

And part of what made Eddie come to la, which is also just.

Syl: 01:53:40

They're not breadcrumbs, but this is just that line of destiny that he keeps walking throughout all his fucking.

Syl: 01:53:47

All the freaking seasons up until present day.

Rachel: 01:53:53

All has to do with her.

Han: 01:53:55

So my first note is everyone else is dealing with being haunted by someone leaving them, but Eddie is being haunted by the return of his estranged wife.

Rachel: 01:54:06

Yep, she's come back.

Syl: 01:54:09

Well, she's also been.

Syl: 01:54:12

But yeah, like, her being, like, such a mystery since, like, episode.

Syl: 01:54:16

Since, like, the beginning of, you know, the season.

Syl: 01:54:19

There's like a present.

Rachel: 01:54:20

It's like episode two.

Syl: 01:54:21

It's like, okay, episode two.

Syl: 01:54:24

So it's like there's like a presence there that we know is like.

Syl: 01:54:31

I guess what I'm trying to say is, like, her presence, even though she's not there, like, her presence can be felt because she's not.

Syl: 01:54:38

You know, it's like, what happened to this, like, to Christopher's mom?

Syl: 01:54:41

Like, where is she?

Han: 01:54:43

Yeah, she's not in the picture, but you don't know what the fuck that means.

Rachel: 01:54:48

It's kind of like the absence of Shannon is so felt.

Rachel: 01:54:55

Just like the absence of Abby.

Han: 01:55:00

Yeah, it's very parallel.

Han: 01:55:02

They were both abandoned.

Han: 01:55:04

Well, I think the crux of this is that he is conflicted about letting Shannon Back into Chris's life.

Han: 01:55:14

He's also conflicted about letting her back into his life.

Rachel: 01:55:18

Yes.

Rachel: 01:55:18

I was just about to say that.

Han: 01:55:20

Because all he wants to do, like, literally everything he does is for Christopher.

Han: 01:55:24

He wants to do what's best for Christopher.

Han: 01:55:25

So he is, you know, trying to get him into a better school.

Rachel: 01:55:31

Yep.

Han: 01:55:32

And that's how we even get how this all happens.

Han: 01:55:36

Shannon in general.

Han: 01:55:39

But he's not really leaving consideration for himself.

Rachel: 01:55:45

Just.

Rachel: 01:55:46

Just like what we said with Buck, how we love when Buck prioritizes himself.

Rachel: 01:55:53

Eddie has the same problem a lot of times.

Han: 01:55:57

Yeah.

Rachel: 01:55:57

Where he doesn't consider himself, because his entire mo.

Rachel: 01:56:06

Modus operandi, motivation, everything.

Rachel: 01:56:11

Everything he does is for Christopher and Christopher's happiness.

Rachel: 01:56:17

He says that's what's most important for me.

Rachel: 01:56:20

I want him to feel normal.

Rachel: 01:56:22

And he devotes his entire life, his entire being to making that happen for Christopher and to allow Christopher to feel that freedom.

Rachel: 01:56:36

That's what makes him such a good dad.

Rachel: 01:56:38

But he does often just put himself to the wayside, and that's.

Han: 01:56:44

Or he doesn't even consider himself, like.

Rachel: 01:56:47

Exactly.

Han: 01:56:48

I think the most we see him consider himself is when he confronts her.

Han: 01:56:55

I mean, I don't know how else to describe that other than a confrontation, because he just, like, ambushed her.

Rachel: 01:57:00

That is a classic confrontation.

Han: 01:57:02

But, yeah, when he confronts her in the parking lot and he's just like, you know, his demeanor with her this whole episode, I just have to say, this is so patient and, like, understanding.

Han: 01:57:13

And anyway, so he's like, you know, you left, and I understood or I tried to understand.

Han: 01:57:22

And, like, he's seeing things from her perspective, and that empathy is the empathy.

Han: 01:57:28

But he's like, but I understand that you had to go take care of your mother, but, like, I thought you would come back, and you didn't, and I needed to know why.

Han: 01:57:37

And that's, like, the only bit we kind of see him, like, really consider for himself.

Han: 01:57:43

For himself.

Han: 01:57:44

Because he really needed to know why.

Han: 01:57:46

And I really think he needed to know why to understand if he could trust her to be around Christopher again.

Han: 01:57:56

Because, again, he's not regarding himself or his feelings about if he let her back into his life, if she left again.

Han: 01:58:04

It's all about Christopher.

Han: 01:58:05

It's all about if he can trust.

Han: 01:58:08

Letting her back into his life for her to just leave again.

Rachel: 01:58:12

Like, vetting her.

Rachel: 01:58:14

Yeah.

Han: 01:58:14

And we talked about back in, I think, the take your kid to work day.

Rachel: 01:58:19

Stuck.

Han: 01:58:20

Yeah.

Han: 01:58:21

And stuck.

Han: 01:58:22

And we were talking about how.

Han: 01:58:24

How he just lets Buck be around his kid.

Han: 01:58:28

So easily and how huge that is because, like.

Han: 01:58:32

Like most parents, like, you don't want to introduce your kid to someone they're going to get attached to if you aren't sure they're going to stick around, stick around, get stuck together.

Han: 01:58:46

Oh, my God.

Han: 01:58:48

So, yeah, you know, like, she explains her reasons.

Han: 01:58:51

We're gonna get into that in the scene dissection.

Han: 01:58:53

But I just don't think that he really gets an answer that is satisfying or makes sense to him.

Han: 01:59:02

But he.

Rachel: 01:59:05

He keeps looking for that closure.

Han: 01:59:09

Yeah, but I don't think he wants closure.

Han: 01:59:11

That's the thing.

Han: 01:59:12

No, because he thinks that he needs to put his family back together, but he also doesn't know if he can because he can't trust her.

Rachel: 01:59:26

I don't even know what to say because there's so much I want to say about the two scenes with Shannon.

Rachel: 01:59:34

But there's also the conversation that Eddie has with Carla, which we can.

Rachel: 01:59:40

Maybe we can get into that before we do that.

Rachel: 01:59:43

Okay, so, like, going back to that idea of Carla being this reflection of what Buck or Eddie think they need to hear.

Rachel: 01:59:56

And because Carla.

Rachel: 02:00:00

And this is after the first time that Eddie and Shannon meet.

Rachel: 02:00:05

So, like, that first kind of.

Rachel: 02:00:07

I wouldn't say that one was a conference.

Rachel: 02:00:09

Well, it turned into a confrontation.

Rachel: 02:00:11

It turned into an argument.

Rachel: 02:00:15

And so, like, it's a really interesting conversation.

Rachel: 02:00:19

And I think it does make more sense if we think about it.

Rachel: 02:00:22

Like, Carla is a reflection of Eddie's kind of psyche, what he thinks he wants to hear.

Rachel: 02:00:27

Because Carla assumes.

Rachel: 02:00:29

Well, hold on.

Rachel: 02:00:31

First of all, he's in a Halloween costume.

Rachel: 02:00:34

Right.

Rachel: 02:00:35

Which is a form of, like, mask.

Rachel: 02:00:39

Right.

Rachel: 02:00:39

Of putting on, you know, this.

Rachel: 02:00:42

This Persona.

Han: 02:00:43

Someone you're sending.

Rachel: 02:00:44

Exactly.

Rachel: 02:00:45

Putting on a different Persona, trying something on for a limited time, because it only lasts a night, like Cinderella or whatever.

Rachel: 02:00:58

And I'm sure there's something, like, a little more significant about the movie, like, Escape from New York and all that stuff.

Han: 02:01:07

I have a Tango and Cash thing, but it's in Slow Burn.

Rachel: 02:01:11

Okay.

Han: 02:01:11

Escape from New York, there was nothing except that it was about a guy who was in the military.

Rachel: 02:01:16

Yeah.

Rachel: 02:01:18

That's the thing.

Rachel: 02:01:21

So Carla assumes, and not necessarily without reason, but she says straight up to Eddie, like, if you want her back in your life and you moved and picked up, like, your.

Rachel: 02:01:37

Your son and you.

Rachel: 02:01:38

And moved 30 minutes away from where your ex lives, you better, like, clean up your act.

Rachel: 02:01:44

Essentially, like that.

Rachel: 02:01:45

And his reaction to when she says, like, if.

Rachel: 02:01:49

If you want her back in your life and he's Just kind of like this.

Rachel: 02:01:54

A little, like, affronted.

Rachel: 02:01:56

A little, like part disgusted, in a way.

Rachel: 02:02:01

Incredulous, I think is a good.

Rachel: 02:02:02

Just kind of like, who said, I want her back in my life?

Rachel: 02:02:07

Because he never has said that.

Han: 02:02:09

Well, no, and that's the thing, is that.

Han: 02:02:12

How long has he been.

Han: 02:02:13

What's the timeline?

Han: 02:02:14

How long has he been in la?

Rachel: 02:02:16

Well, he's been a.

Rachel: 02:02:17

He's a probationary firefighter and it's been a little bit.

Syl: 02:02:22

So I think it's been from, like, summer to obviously, Halloween.

Han: 02:02:26

Well, because he had to do his training, right?

Rachel: 02:02:28

Isn't that like eight months or did I just come up with that out of Daniel?

Han: 02:02:33

So maybe he's been there for like a year.

Rachel: 02:02:37

Oh, yeah, give or take a year.

Han: 02:02:39

Maybe just under a year to include the training.

Han: 02:02:42

And.

Rachel: 02:02:43

And has.

Rachel: 02:02:44

Has had no contact, but lives 30 minutes away.

Han: 02:02:48

Yeah, that's the thing is, I'm like, the fact that he didn't call her until he needed.

Rachel: 02:02:54

He had to.

Han: 02:02:55

He literally had to.

Han: 02:02:56

Speaks volumes because, like, sure, yeah, he moved 30 minutes away from her.

Han: 02:03:01

And I'm sure that was subconscious.

Han: 02:03:04

Yeah, to some point.

Han: 02:03:06

But, like, he obviously didn't want to reach out to her.

Syl: 02:03:10

Also in Eddie Begins again, didn't.

Syl: 02:03:12

Didn't he apply to two different.

Syl: 02:03:16

Like, he applied to LA and I think Chicago, like, Chicago.

Syl: 02:03:19

Chicago was the other option.

Han: 02:03:21

Yeah.

Rachel: 02:03:22

So it would have been one or another.

Rachel: 02:03:23

And it just.

Han: 02:03:24

He just wanted to get the.

Han: 02:03:25

Out of Texas and he wanted to go to one of the best.

Han: 02:03:29

I think those are the two best.

Syl: 02:03:31

But also, like, maybe subconsciously he still.

Syl: 02:03:33

He could.

Syl: 02:03:34

This is just me, you know, trying to.

Syl: 02:03:38

I'm just assuming.

Han: 02:03:39

I'm just.

Syl: 02:03:40

No, no, no.

Syl: 02:03:40

It's not really cooking.

Syl: 02:03:41

It's just, like, assuming because, like, I'm thinking, like, he's planning, right?

Syl: 02:03:45

So, like, maybe, like, obviously he doesn't want his parents to take care of Christopher.

Syl: 02:03:49

So, like, I feel like if Shannon were still alive and something were to happen to Eddie, going to LA would have been the more logical choice because then Christopher would go to Shannon if she were still alive.

Rachel: 02:04:03

And that.

Rachel: 02:04:04

I think we also do have to keep in mind that that is where his Abuela and his Tia Pep are.

Syl: 02:04:09

Oh, yeah, that too.

Rachel: 02:04:10

So.

Han: 02:04:11

So he had a support system still, but a support system that actually, like, supports him.

Rachel: 02:04:17

Yeah, So I think.

Rachel: 02:04:20

I think that was.

Rachel: 02:04:22

The Shannon being like 30 minutes away was probably more subconscious than anything else.

Rachel: 02:04:27

And it was probably the draw from Abuela and Tia Pepa that that helped, you know, sway one way or the other.

Rachel: 02:04:35

But, like, the.

Rachel: 02:04:36

The look that he has when Carla says, if you want Shannon back in your life, he just, like, he doesn't.

Han: 02:04:46

Look like someone who wants her back in my life.

Rachel: 02:04:49

He doesn't know what he wants.

Rachel: 02:04:52

But I think on some level, he subconsciously knows that he doesn't want that, which is why he hasn't made any effort to reach out or anything like that.

Rachel: 02:05:04

But it's.

Rachel: 02:05:05

It's hard to.

Rachel: 02:05:07

To face that, especially when Carla says.

Rachel: 02:05:09

And again, if this is, like, a reflection of Eddie's psyche or whatever, that Carla says that Eddie knows what's best for his son and that's for his mother to be back in his life sooner or later.

Rachel: 02:05:23

And that I have.

Rachel: 02:05:25

So I think we all have a lot of problems with.

Rachel: 02:05:27

And this is the only way that it makes sense in my head for Carla to give that kind of advice.

Han: 02:05:34

Well, yeah, because that's Eddie's whole thing.

Han: 02:05:36

That's Eddie's whole thing is finding a mother for Christopher Rae, like, after Shannon's gone.

Rachel: 02:05:42

Exactly.

Rachel: 02:05:43

Like, it's so ingrained in him.

Rachel: 02:05:46

And, like, for Carla to say that that does not give Eddie any autonomy, but it rather, like, it plays directly.

Han: 02:05:54

Or the kind of support he needs.

Rachel: 02:05:56

It plays directly to his insecurities.

Rachel: 02:05:59

And I think he listens to her.

Han: 02:06:03

Yeah.

Rachel: 02:06:03

Where, again, I think it's more him kind of, like, hearing what he.

Rachel: 02:06:09

What he thinks he needs to hear because she's also, like, the expert or something like that.

Rachel: 02:06:13

So, like, with both Buck and Eddie looking to Carla because she is the expert, and her telling them exactly what they think they need to hear, that's what they listen to.

Rachel: 02:06:27

Because it's not good advice.

Rachel: 02:06:29

And, like, it's really bad advice.

Han: 02:06:32

No, it's especially terrible advice if you don't even know anything about.

Han: 02:06:37

Like, you just found out that, like, they aren't divorced and, like, you don't know the story of, like, you don't know the history of what happened.

Han: 02:06:45

Like, so I just think that's, like, really terrible advice.

Han: 02:06:47

It, like, kind of reminded me of Bobby's advice.

Rachel: 02:06:50

Yeah.

Han: 02:06:51

Like, I said that we hated.

Rachel: 02:06:53

Like, it's.

Rachel: 02:06:54

It's coming from a good place, but it's so off the mark that it's just like, ooh.

Han: 02:07:02

Well, it.

Han: 02:07:03

The second time she gave advice really pissed me off when she was like, a boy needs his mama.

Han: 02:07:08

And I'm like, no, that's not necessarily true.

Rachel: 02:07:13

She's.

Rachel: 02:07:14

She's assuming a lot about this person that she does not even know.

Rachel: 02:07:20

And I understand there's Like, Benefit of the Doubt.

Rachel: 02:07:22

Of course I'm a.

Rachel: 02:07:23

I'm a huge proponent for Benefit of the Doubt.

Rachel: 02:07:25

But, like, you've.

Rachel: 02:07:27

I know, I know.

Rachel: 02:07:30

Like, she's seen how hard Eddie has worked to do the things that are best for Christopher firsthand.

Rachel: 02:07:41

And, like, if you're gonna take anybody's sides, even if you say you're like, Switzerland or whatever, how do you not side with the person who's been there for their kid?

Rachel: 02:07:55

Yeah.

Syl: 02:07:57

I don't know.

Syl: 02:07:58

It's just weird.

Syl: 02:07:59

I feel like Carla also can be viewed as, like, very, like, a traditionalist at this point because.

Han: 02:08:07

Because that whole very heteronormative.

Han: 02:08:10

That's what it's giving.

Syl: 02:08:13

Yeah.

Han: 02:08:13

Heteronormative gender roles.

Syl: 02:08:16

Yeah, definitely.

Han: 02:08:17

So, like, compulsive heterose heterosexuality.

Syl: 02:08:22

I feel like someone in the fandom had.

Syl: 02:08:24

Had called her advice, like, something like that.

Syl: 02:08:28

Like, she just pushed him towards Shannon at some point.

Syl: 02:08:33

But, yeah, no, I just.

Syl: 02:08:35

I just feel like she was really looking for, like.

Syl: 02:08:39

For, like, that traditional, like, family type of dynamic, you know, trying to gear him towards that.

Syl: 02:08:45

And then, like.

Syl: 02:08:46

And I think that's presented because I'm like.

Syl: 02:08:50

Like, when I was watching the episode, I was like, why does the school need to talk to the mom?

Syl: 02:08:54

Like, for what?

Rachel: 02:08:56

For what reason?

Syl: 02:08:57

Is it that.

Syl: 02:08:58

Like, is it that prestigious?

Syl: 02:08:59

Is it.

Syl: 02:08:59

Is it?

Syl: 02:09:00

Well, I guess it was.

Syl: 02:09:01

It is fancy.

Syl: 02:09:03

That's what Shannon said.

Syl: 02:09:05

So, like.

Syl: 02:09:06

But, like, why.

Syl: 02:09:07

Why do both parents need to be there?

Syl: 02:09:08

It doesn't matter if they're separated or not.

Syl: 02:09:10

I just didn't think, like, there was any reason.

Syl: 02:09:12

And.

Syl: 02:09:12

And Eddie could have just said, she's not really in the picture.

Syl: 02:09:15

It doesn't matter if he.

Syl: 02:09:16

If.

Syl: 02:09:16

If he was divorced or not.

Syl: 02:09:18

Like, she.

Rachel: 02:09:19

It shouldn't matter.

Syl: 02:09:20

It shouldn't matter.

Syl: 02:09:21

I feel like that was just weird.

Rachel: 02:09:24

I.

Rachel: 02:09:24

I thought it was weird too.

Han: 02:09:26

Well, I feel like he didn't want to say anything about it because he's embarrassed.

Rachel: 02:09:32

Yes.

Rachel: 02:09:33

Ashamed.

Syl: 02:09:34

And that's where I'm like, again, it had to deal with tradition or traditional values.

Syl: 02:09:41

So, yeah, like, I thought it was weird.

Syl: 02:09:42

And then I guess it seems like.

Rachel: 02:09:45

An overstep of the school to, like, really butt themselves into these familial situations because, like, there could not be parents in the picture.

Rachel: 02:09:59

And, like.

Syl: 02:09:59

Oh, sorry.

Syl: 02:10:02

You can finish yourself, please.

Rachel: 02:10:03

No, no, no.

Rachel: 02:10:04

That I was wasting time for you.

Syl: 02:10:08

Well, yeah, because I think.

Syl: 02:10:09

I feel like I said this in another episode that we talked about where I was like, well, maybe it could be embarrassment for Eddie.

Syl: 02:10:17

It could also be like, what does it say about him?

Syl: 02:10:21

Like, maybe, like, I mean, again, his job is.

Syl: 02:10:25

It has crazy shifts or hours and things like that.

Syl: 02:10:28

So, like, not having Shannon to, you know, be there could be just like.

Rachel: 02:10:34

Like a red flag.

Rachel: 02:10:35

Like.

Syl: 02:10:36

Yeah, like a red flag, I guess, because that could, like, turn.

Syl: 02:10:40

That could turn.

Syl: 02:10:40

They could turn Christopher away from that school or not accept them and whatnot.

Rachel: 02:10:47

So I definitely think that he feels shame or, like, feel shame as for being a failure as both a father.

Han: 02:11:00

Yeah.

Rachel: 02:11:01

And a husband.

Han: 02:11:02

It's the failure thing.

Han: 02:11:04

Yeah.

Rachel: 02:11:04

And it's.

Rachel: 02:11:05

It's layered because he feels like he's failed even more by having to admit that there was no custody agreement or anything like that.

Rachel: 02:11:15

And also more layered because he knows he's being cowardly about it by not getting that hashed out in general as well.

Rachel: 02:11:26

Because then he would have to reach out to her, which is the last thing that he wants to do because he feels all of these shame.

Rachel: 02:11:35

He feels shame for himself, but he's also just, like, outwardly still so angry at her.

Rachel: 02:11:41

And this is kind of.

Rachel: 02:11:43

And him feeling like a failure as a father and a husband, which come up a lot for him, is, like, really the only thing that we see Eddie not being confident and competent in.

Rachel: 02:11:59

Like, he completely disregards, like, his.

Rachel: 02:12:03

How good.

Rachel: 02:12:04

How good he is at stuff.

Rachel: 02:12:06

Like, he just.

Rachel: 02:12:07

He just keeps piling on.

Rachel: 02:12:09

Like, he sees that aspect of him as, like, the worst of himself.

Rachel: 02:12:14

Like, yeah, he's a good firefighter.

Rachel: 02:12:16

Yeah, he was a good soldier and everything like that.

Rachel: 02:12:18

But, like, he thinks of himself as a bad dad and a bad husband.

Rachel: 02:12:23

He's not.

Syl: 02:12:24

Right.

Syl: 02:12:25

But I think, like, it's even like it comes to a head when they have that confrontation.

Rachel: 02:12:29

Yeah.

Rachel: 02:12:30

So I think.

Rachel: 02:12:31

I think we'll talk about both of the scenes with Eddie and Shannon as our scene dissection.

Rachel: 02:12:37

So I think we've kind of talked about as much as we could leading up to that, and we can just go into this.

Han: 02:12:47

Hey.

Syl: 02:12:50

Where'S the fire?

Rachel: 02:12:56

So.

Rachel: 02:12:57

So what were you saying?

Syl: 02:12:58

So, like, I was.

Syl: 02:12:59

I was just going to say, like, some of the stuff that we were just talking about.

Syl: 02:13:03

Like, I really think it comes up.

Syl: 02:13:04

Comes to a head.

Syl: 02:13:07

It really comes to a head when they're having that confrontation, that.

Syl: 02:13:10

Or conversation, discussion, whatever.

Syl: 02:13:12

And he asks her, what did you need that I didn't give you?

Han: 02:13:17

So, like.

Syl: 02:13:18

And, you know, she says, I need a husband and a co parent.

Syl: 02:13:22

But, like, for the longest time, he just didn't.

Syl: 02:13:25

I guess he just didn't Understand what?

Rachel: 02:13:28

It was her side of it.

Syl: 02:13:30

Well, not really her side of it.

Syl: 02:13:32

It's more just like, where did he fail?

Syl: 02:13:36

I guess in her eyes.

Syl: 02:13:39

So he didn't know that, so.

Syl: 02:13:40

Or didn't understand that.

Syl: 02:13:42

I guess I under.

Rachel: 02:13:43

Okay, that makes sense.

Han: 02:13:45

So, like I mentioned earlier, like, Eddie's demeanor with Shannon is, like, really gentle and understanding, which I don't feel is completely warranted.

Han: 02:13:54

And she shows up and, like, two minutes later is being biting and sarcastic and throwing barbs at him.

Rachel: 02:14:04

Yeah.

Syl: 02:14:04

The only thing I have to say about that is that.

Syl: 02:14:07

Well, what else was he gonna do?

Syl: 02:14:09

He needed her to help with, you know, get Christopher.

Syl: 02:14:13

Like, so, yeah, it's not in.

Syl: 02:14:15

He's not considering himself and how he feels and blah, blah, blah.

Syl: 02:14:18

But, like, at this point, he's trying to get something for his son.

Syl: 02:14:22

So it's kind of like, what else was he supposed to do?

Syl: 02:14:25

Like, he can't exactly, like, really express.

Rachel: 02:14:27

His back was up against the wall.

Syl: 02:14:29

Yeah.

Syl: 02:14:30

It's not like he could really express how he really feels towards her until probably after the fact, which he doesn't do, unfortunately.

Syl: 02:14:38

But, like, you can't.

Syl: 02:14:40

If you're.

Syl: 02:14:41

If you're trying to get something, you have to kind of, I guess, like, lay with the.

Syl: 02:14:46

What's the phrase?

Syl: 02:14:48

Lay with the lines.

Syl: 02:14:49

Lay with the.

Syl: 02:14:50

But you get what I'm saying.

Syl: 02:14:51

I think you get.

Syl: 02:14:52

You guys get what I'm saying.

Rachel: 02:14:54

Yeah.

Rachel: 02:14:54

Yeah.

Rachel: 02:14:55

Oh, that's.

Rachel: 02:14:55

That's a really interesting point.

Rachel: 02:14:57

Like, he.

Rachel: 02:14:58

Like, she's able to kind of, like, pull out some of.

Rachel: 02:15:03

Like I wrote down, she's the first to wade into the chilly waters.

Rachel: 02:15:06

Right.

Rachel: 02:15:08

But, like, Eddie doesn't really have that option to do so because he needs to get something from her.

Rachel: 02:15:17

So he has to.

Rachel: 02:15:19

He has to be a little bit more diplomatic in this situation.

Rachel: 02:15:25

Otherwise he's putting Christopher's potential at that school at risk, which is, again, the last thing that he wants.

Rachel: 02:15:34

Wants to do.

Rachel: 02:15:36

So he just has to kind of, like, take it on the chin, right?

Rachel: 02:15:39

Because she.

Rachel: 02:15:40

She talks about, like, the first thing or one of the first things she says is like, you know, I was also shocked that, you know, you moved from LA when I found out yesterday, and then just, like, drops it.

Rachel: 02:15:56

She's like, so tell me about that school.

Rachel: 02:15:57

And it's just like, it doesn't give him any opportunity or option to, like, rebut that, to give a rebuttal.

Rachel: 02:16:09

And just also, like, the way that, like, when Shannon comes in and is in Christopher's room, it's like, you know, we.

Rachel: 02:16:22

We talked about how Buck and Abby were the ghosts that were haunting the apartment, but, like, so Shannon is kind of the ghost that's haunting the Diaz house, but who's being more haunted?

Rachel: 02:16:34

Right.

Rachel: 02:16:34

Because Shannon is, like, you know, going from one place to another, just kind of, like, floating around, taking things in.

Rachel: 02:16:43

And, like, so Shannon is the ghost in their lives, but Chris is the ghost in her life.

Rachel: 02:16:50

And Eddie is also just kind of like.

Rachel: 02:16:54

Like, seeing this ghost to this apparition because she's haunting him, too, and he's being haunted by what could have been as much as, like, what happened.

Rachel: 02:17:05

But.

Rachel: 02:17:06

But.

Rachel: 02:17:06

Yeah, so.

Rachel: 02:17:07

So they talk about this school, and she makes another barb about how, like, this looks like a fancy school.

Rachel: 02:17:15

I didn't think you'd be into that.

Rachel: 02:17:18

But Eddie gives, like, you know, these.

Rachel: 02:17:20

These reasons.

Rachel: 02:17:21

Like, it's a really good school.

Rachel: 02:17:22

It has smaller class sizes.

Rachel: 02:17:24

He'll be, like, you know, better cared for there.

Rachel: 02:17:29

And he's giving these, like, genuine reasons because that's what's.

Rachel: 02:17:35

What.

Rachel: 02:17:35

What he believes is right for Christopher.

Han: 02:17:38

The only thing that I have left for the house is the you left me versus you could have come with me.

Rachel: 02:17:44

Yeah.

Rachel: 02:17:45

When.

Rachel: 02:17:45

When she, like, really.

Rachel: 02:17:47

When they really kind of blow up at each other.

Han: 02:17:50

I think that's the crux of it, is that he views it as her leaving and never coming back and her going, well, you could have come with me.

Han: 02:18:00

And then I'm just assuming neither of them communicated, like, at all.

Rachel: 02:18:05

Yeah.

Han: 02:18:05

And now they're here, and it's, like.

Rachel: 02:18:07

Also too little, too late.

Han: 02:18:09

And it's like, you know, Eddie did leave, too, because he joined the military.

Han: 02:18:14

And, like, yes, he didn't talk to her about it beforehand, but, like, he was still in contact with them, and he was still, you know what I mean, somewhat appraised of what was going on with his child, and he was talking to his child.

Han: 02:18:28

So while he's not a blameless angel in this situation, it very much feels unfair for her to not take any accountability for her actions and just make excuses and then throw the blame back on him for leaving, for being in Afghanistan, and for not having her back.

Han: 02:18:50

You could have come with me, and, you know, we'll get into this more.

Han: 02:18:55

Like, when we do.

Han: 02:18:56

Eddie begins.

Rachel: 02:18:57

I think, definitely.

Rachel: 02:19:00

I think the other thing that she says in.

Rachel: 02:19:02

In the house, in this scene that's really important is when she wants to make sure.

Rachel: 02:19:10

Make talk to Christopher to make sure that's what he wants.

Han: 02:19:14

Oh, yeah, that was out of pocket.

Rachel: 02:19:16

Yeah.

Rachel: 02:19:17

This is what I was trying to get to.

Rachel: 02:19:18

And I totally lost my train of thought.

Han: 02:19:20

That was so fucking out of pocket.

Rachel: 02:19:22

It.

Rachel: 02:19:22

It really was.

Rachel: 02:19:23

Because it's like she doesn't trust Eddie to provide for Christopher or put his interest first, but that's all that he does.

Han: 02:19:30

He's been doing it by himself.

Rachel: 02:19:31

Literally by himself.

Rachel: 02:19:32

He's been doing it by himself.

Rachel: 02:19:34

And, like, we don't really know the full extent to why Eddie isn't given the trust or the hope that he is, like, the best father that he can be.

Rachel: 02:19:46

But like she.

Rachel: 02:19:48

She says, right.

Rachel: 02:19:50

Because Eddie knows what's best for everyone.

Rachel: 02:19:52

God, if you stop for a second and ask and actually ask what they need, it's like he does know what's best for Christopher, but he is not given the benefit of the doubt.

Han: 02:20:03

Like, also, is he supposed to go to his six year old and be like, hey, you get free reign of choosing where you'd like to go to school.

Rachel: 02:20:12

Yeah.

Rachel: 02:20:13

Like, that is a parent's decision.

Rachel: 02:20:15

But it's like, Shannon has lost hope.

Rachel: 02:20:19

And we'll see.

Rachel: 02:20:20

Also, that kind of his parents as well.

Rachel: 02:20:22

They have lost hope.

Rachel: 02:20:25

I don't think they really had any to begin with in his ability to be a father, a good father.

Han: 02:20:31

Well, in that case, it makes it way worse that she left and left Christopher with him.

Rachel: 02:20:37

Yeah.

Han: 02:20:38

Cause it's like, that's like, negligence squared.

Rachel: 02:20:42

Yeah.

Han: 02:20:44

Also, like, I was trying to Google it and I can't find it fast enough.

Han: 02:20:49

But I'm sure that if, like, he, like, she tried to get partial custody or something, like, and they went to court, that it would be really hard for her.

Rachel: 02:20:58

Mm.

Han: 02:20:59

To get it without, like, first going through, like, supervised visitations.

Han: 02:21:05

And, like, it would be like a whole process because, like, if you.

Han: 02:21:08

If there's negligence or, you know, anything like that, you normally have to, like, show that you won't repeat that behavior before they let you have any sort of custody of your kid again.

Rachel: 02:21:23

Oof.

Rachel: 02:21:24

Yeah.

Rachel: 02:21:24

It's like, honestly, for Eddie to not have gotten a custody agreement where it would have been, like, pretty.

Rachel: 02:21:33

Pretty solidly in his.

Han: 02:21:35

I don't think.

Han: 02:21:36

I think he was just trying to, like, ignore it, pretend it wasn't happening, repress it.

Han: 02:21:41

It's his favorite thing.

Han: 02:21:41

He puts things in little boxes and buries them deep inside his ribcage, you know?

Han: 02:21:47

But I think my point is that she's walking in so, like, entitled to this child that she literally abandoned.

Han: 02:21:54

Like, if she tried to go to court and argue that he also abandoned their kid, they'd be like, well, he was in the army and was in contact.

Rachel: 02:22:05

Like, it's not that she kept him away.

Han: 02:22:09

She would have no case.

Rachel: 02:22:10

Yeah, it's not necessarily kind of how.

Han: 02:22:12

I was trying to.

Han: 02:22:12

Like, when I watched this a couple of times, I was trying to be objective because, like, I have a lot of.

Han: 02:22:18

I have a lot of hatred for this woman.

Han: 02:22:20

And yes, it is biased because I love Eddie and I hate anything that makes him sad.

Han: 02:22:27

But, you know, I think in this scene particularly, it's just like, she's rolling up with this entitlement that is so undeserved and not taking any responsibility for the fact that she left and that he has to consider what's best for Christopher and if letting her back into his life right away without learning anything about this new version of her, because he also doesn't really know her anymore.

Han: 02:22:58

It's been two years.

Rachel: 02:22:59

Yeah.

Rachel: 02:23:00

Like, she left Eddie as much as she left Christopher, which he doesn't like to acknowledge.

Rachel: 02:23:08

No, but he feels the pain twofold.

Rachel: 02:23:13

Right.

Rachel: 02:23:13

Because he feels it for Christopher, but he also feels it for himself.

Rachel: 02:23:18

And like you said, he tries to, like, tamp it down, but that's where, like, a lot of the hurt is coming from, because it's like, she.

Rachel: 02:23:26

She wasn't.

Rachel: 02:23:27

I mean, she wasn't just leaving him, but she was leaving Chris or vice versa or whatever like that.

Rachel: 02:23:32

And I mean, he.

Rachel: 02:23:33

He does then use that, like, opportunity to.

Rachel: 02:23:37

When she says that, like, you don't actually ask people what they need.

Rachel: 02:23:40

He.

Rachel: 02:23:41

To his.

Rachel: 02:23:45

What is it?

Rachel: 02:23:46

To his credit.

Rachel: 02:23:49

Credit.

Rachel: 02:23:49

Thank you.

Rachel: 02:23:50

To his credit, he does ask, in that moment, what did you need that I didn't give you?

Rachel: 02:23:58

And, you know, she's like, she needed a husband, she needed a co parent, but she got a life alone with a baby, and she needed someone to have her back, which I'm sure we'll get into in Slow Burn.

Rachel: 02:24:09

And Eddie's like, I always had your back in his way of having her back.

Rachel: 02:24:15

And she was like, no, you're.

Rachel: 02:24:17

You were in Afghanistan.

Rachel: 02:24:19

And that was.

Rachel: 02:24:20

And in his mind, I think it was having her back in providing for their family in the only way that he knew how.

Rachel: 02:24:29

Which, like, we'll find out, like, because of how.

Rachel: 02:24:32

Because of, like, what his dad did was essential, was basically like, leaving to provide for his family.

Rachel: 02:24:41

But that's not the kind of having her back that Shannon needed.

Rachel: 02:24:48

But.

Rachel: 02:24:49

But again, they did not really have any communication about that.

Rachel: 02:24:52

So, like, he just thought that was gonna work, and it didn't.

Rachel: 02:24:56

So, like, that's how they Leave it.

Rachel: 02:24:58

And then after the.

Rachel: 02:25:01

After she has her school interview, which, like, you know, for someone who was avoiding her for so much, he.

Rachel: 02:25:09

It really is a confrontation.

Rachel: 02:25:10

Like, the.

Rachel: 02:25:13

He says, like, you know, the school called and told.

Rachel: 02:25:15

Told me it was your interview, so I'm going to, like, kind of ambush you right now.

Rachel: 02:25:20

I think.

Rachel: 02:25:21

I think he reiterates, like, he always hoped that she would come home and they would have a chance to make things right, but he needs to know why.

Rachel: 02:25:28

And she says, you know, the longer she was gone, the harder it was it was to come back and face both Eddie and Chris.

Rachel: 02:25:37

And I think that is that same kind of, like, cowardice that kept Eddie from confronting her as well, to even, like, let her know that they were 30 minutes away from her for maybe a year.

Rachel: 02:25:51

And we get into a little bit more of what Shannon, like, some of the reason why Shannon also thinks that she's a bad mom.

Rachel: 02:26:02

So you have two people who just think that they're terrible parents.

Han: 02:26:06

So Eddie, like, he asks the why.

Han: 02:26:09

Because he doesn't ask the why didn't she come back?

Han: 02:26:13

Because, like, he has justified the leaving.

Han: 02:26:16

Right.

Han: 02:26:16

Because she had to go take care of her mother.

Han: 02:26:19

Yeah.

Han: 02:26:20

But then it was like, when you were done with that, why did you come back?

Han: 02:26:24

Did you not come back?

Han: 02:26:25

And her reasoning is just like.

Han: 02:26:27

Like you said, it was harder the longer away I was.

Han: 02:26:30

And then just like, a bunch of depressive stuff about, like, being in her own head about, like, I did this to him and then I left him and he must hate me because I did this to him.

Han: 02:26:44

And then she goes on this whole rant that pisses me the fuck off because it's so ableist.

Rachel: 02:26:51

Yeah.

Han: 02:26:52

And I get.

Han: 02:26:53

I get it a little bit because I'm trying to look at it from her point of view is that she was fucking depressed.

Rachel: 02:27:00

Right.

Rachel: 02:27:01

Majorly.

Han: 02:27:02

Like, I can't tell if she, like, had postpartum or whatever, but she definitely has, like, current depression.

Rachel: 02:27:10

Yeah.

Rachel: 02:27:10

And she didn't have enough of a support system in place for her either.

Rachel: 02:27:15

And.

Han: 02:27:16

No, it was his family.

Rachel: 02:27:17

And then.

Han: 02:27:19

Well, we know how his family is the worst.

Han: 02:27:23

They're not supportive.

Rachel: 02:27:24

No.

Han: 02:27:25

They'll do things to, like, help care for Christopher, but they are not supportive of Eddie or of Shannon.

Rachel: 02:27:31

And we also know from what Peppa said that, like, his family doesn't think very highly of her to begin with.

Han: 02:27:39

But she.

Han: 02:27:40

I don't know, she ends that whole little story about, like, why it was hard for her to come back, which is, like, again, maybe it's just me projecting, I don't think, a good answer for Eddie.

Han: 02:27:52

Like, he.

Han: 02:27:53

No, like, he's trying to be understanding and supportive of her, but, like, I think he just still doesn't get it.

Rachel: 02:28:00

Well, I think.

Han: 02:28:01

But she ends it in saying, like, I just needed a break.

Rachel: 02:28:04

And it's like, you don't get a break.

Han: 02:28:07

Huh?

Han: 02:28:08

You.

Han: 02:28:09

You don't take breaks from parenting.

Rachel: 02:28:11

You are that forever.

Han: 02:28:13

You don't get to just take that your parent hat off and come back and put it back on whenever you want.

Rachel: 02:28:19

Yeah, I, I.

Rachel: 02:28:21

So I think Eddie does on some level understand how.

Rachel: 02:28:29

How Shannon feels like she's an absolute failure because he continues to feel like a failure.

Rachel: 02:28:36

So I think on some subconscious, like, twist of his thoughts or whatever, he thinks that puts them on kind of, like, slightly equal footing because he's like, well, I think I'm a bad parent, and you think you're a bad parent, so maybe the two of us can be good parents together instead of bad parents by ourselves, which is such flawed logic.

Rachel: 02:29:07

But, like, I feel like to that extent, he.

Rachel: 02:29:11

He does kind of understand the feeling of failure and that empathy that he has because he feels it himself.

Rachel: 02:29:19

So he tells her, like, what happened wasn't your fault with the whole, like, stuff with the pregnancy and Christopher and.

Rachel: 02:29:29

And everything like that.

Rachel: 02:29:30

And it just kind of seemed like he was also blame.

Rachel: 02:29:35

He was trying to take some of that blame himself or, or like, share.

Rachel: 02:29:41

Share that burden.

Rachel: 02:29:42

Share that blame a little bit, but in not so many words, if that.

Rachel: 02:29:49

I don't know how it exactly makes sense in his head, but it's like, I.

Rachel: 02:29:55

Yeah, I think.

Rachel: 02:29:56

I think he was just like, oh, you feel like a failure.

Rachel: 02:29:58

I feel like a failure.

Rachel: 02:30:00

Let's be failures in succeeding together.

Han: 02:30:04

I think that she was crying and he felt bad, and he was just.

Han: 02:30:08

He just went into triage mode.

Han: 02:30:10

Like.

Rachel: 02:30:11

Yeah, like, when he.

Rachel: 02:30:13

When he hugs her, like, that's.

Rachel: 02:30:16

That is a comfort hug.

Han: 02:30:18

That.

Rachel: 02:30:18

That doesn't have anything else to go with it.

Rachel: 02:30:22

But.

Rachel: 02:30:22

But then, like, so her response to him saying, like, it wasn't your fault, I think is, Is she said it.

Han: 02:30:31

I know, but it doesn't feel like it.

Rachel: 02:30:33

Yeah, I know that.

Rachel: 02:30:35

I just don't feel it.

Han: 02:30:37

Feel it.

Rachel: 02:30:37

And I think that can be part of the thesis.

Rachel: 02:30:43

Just like, Just quickly, like, take it, maybe.

Rachel: 02:30:46

Okay, I'll save that for slow burn.

Rachel: 02:30:48

So she says that, and then they're, like, touching, and he.

Rachel: 02:30:53

It's.

Rachel: 02:30:54

It like, he takes her hands, but it's, like, more comforting.

Rachel: 02:30:58

But it's slightly less platonic.

Rachel: 02:31:00

And then, like, he knows what he thinks that he should do, but this is all for Christopher's sake.

Rachel: 02:31:06

But he doesn't feel it.

Rachel: 02:31:08

Okay, so I'm going to say that the whole.

Rachel: 02:31:10

I know that I just don't feel it.

Rachel: 02:31:12

I feel like can be extrapolated to be the thesis for Eddie's romantic exploits.

Rachel: 02:31:22

I think it, but I don't feel it because he thinks he should be doing everything this way, but he just doesn't feel it.

Rachel: 02:31:31

And I think we see the first inklings of that with this.

Rachel: 02:31:34

Like, he, like, he talks about how Christopher loves her and Christopher misses you.

Rachel: 02:31:42

I miss you.

Rachel: 02:31:43

What's missing there?

Rachel: 02:31:45

He doesn't say that he loves her.

Rachel: 02:31:47

I.

Rachel: 02:31:48

On.

Rachel: 02:31:48

On one hand, I don't think that he could say that or could admit to it because there's still a lot of.

Syl: 02:31:55

I don't even think that was the place to say that.

Syl: 02:31:58

I.

Syl: 02:31:58

I said.

Syl: 02:31:59

I mean, I just didn't think it would with.

Syl: 02:32:01

What is the right time or place to even say that, considering they haven't seen each other for so long or we don't even know where they are.

Syl: 02:32:09

They are at, like, you know.

Rachel: 02:32:12

Yeah.

Syl: 02:32:13

Like, where they think they are at in their relationship.

Syl: 02:32:16

And actually, just like I thought was interesting, since we're talking about that last bit of dialogue, the I miss you versus the I missed you.

Rachel: 02:32:26

Because she uses past tense, right?

Syl: 02:32:28

Yeah, He.

Syl: 02:32:29

He's saying it's.

Syl: 02:32:30

So he's saying I miss you present tense.

Syl: 02:32:32

Or in an actively.

Syl: 02:32:34

I miss you or.

Syl: 02:32:36

Yeah, active present.

Syl: 02:32:38

And then she's saying I missed you, which is not active.

Syl: 02:32:42

It's.

Syl: 02:32:42

It's past, which is kind of like, for me, kind of like a foreshadow or a red flag to later in the season where he does propose to her.

Syl: 02:32:54

And like, them starting their whole relationship again was, like, really contingent on whether she was pregnant or not.

Syl: 02:33:02

And when suddenly she finds out she's not, she's like, I don't want to be in a relationship with you.

Syl: 02:33:08

So it's.

Syl: 02:33:09

Or get, you know, get together, proposal, whatever.

Han: 02:33:14

Do you think that Eddie jumps headfirst into, like, physical.

Syl: 02:33:19

Yes.

Han: 02:33:20

Affection because he can't properly verbalize or he doesn't feel the emotional affection.

Syl: 02:33:29

I feel like there was some kind of thread where he's confusing the two.

Syl: 02:33:38

Or like, he associates the physical as.

Han: 02:33:42

Yeah, like conflating the two.

Rachel: 02:33:45

Like conflating emotional intimacy with physical intimacy.

Rachel: 02:33:50

Like someone else we know, but he's doing it opposite.

Han: 02:33:57

Opposite.

Han: 02:33:59

But, like, because he jumps headfirst back into, you know, a physical relationship with her.

Han: 02:34:06

Even though he doesn't trust her.

Rachel: 02:34:08

Yeah.

Han: 02:34:10

Even though there were all these red flags about him.

Han: 02:34:12

Not really.

Han: 02:34:13

There was no I love you.

Han: 02:34:15

There is no.

Han: 02:34:16

You know what I mean?

Han: 02:34:17

Like, it just.

Han: 02:34:18

Whatever feelings he may have had for her in the past don't seem to be present.

Han: 02:34:24

Like, he cares about her as, like, a friend and the mother of his child.

Rachel: 02:34:31

But, yeah, I think.

Rachel: 02:34:35

I think a lot of it is really shrouded in the fact that, like, this is what he thinks he should be doing.

Rachel: 02:34:42

Yeah.

Rachel: 02:34:42

So he thinks he should be, you know, engaging with her in a romantic and sexual way.

Rachel: 02:34:52

Right.

Rachel: 02:34:53

Because that is his wife.

Rachel: 02:34:55

That is the mother of his child.

Rachel: 02:34:56

That is what you're supposed to be doing.

Rachel: 02:34:59

And I think there is emotional connection there.

Rachel: 02:35:04

But he.

Rachel: 02:35:05

He does.

Rachel: 02:35:06

He does kind of jump into the physical intimacy because, like, you know, and he doesn't really think about it because he's just like, yes, this is what I should be doing.

Rachel: 02:35:16

This is what is done kind of thing, what is expected.

Rachel: 02:35:21

Because they go from, like, the hug to, like, holding the hands to, like, the forehead touch, which I think is really, like, the most intimate thing of the scene, which is not, like, super sexual.

Rachel: 02:35:35

It's just like the forehead touch, like this.

Rachel: 02:35:38

This connection.

Rachel: 02:35:40

But then he takes it where it's supposed to be by engaging in a kiss.

Rachel: 02:35:47

And then it just complicates everything because.

Han: 02:35:51

He ignores all the signs, and he is like, well, yeah, I don't know.

Han: 02:35:56

Maybe it'll work this time.

Han: 02:35:57

Even though all the signs point to it not working.

Han: 02:35:59

So.

Han: 02:36:00

And he was not there for the don't beat a dead horse lesson.

Han: 02:36:03

So.

Han: 02:36:04

Yeah, I don't hate Shannon as, like, a character.

Han: 02:36:10

I just hate.

Han: 02:36:11

It's the same thing with Abby.

Rachel: 02:36:12

Right.

Han: 02:36:13

I just hate her for Eddie.

Rachel: 02:36:16

Interesting characters, terrible people.

Han: 02:36:18

Yeah.

Han: 02:36:19

Interesting, complex character, Good person.

Han: 02:36:21

Just like bad mother, bad partner.

Syl: 02:36:28

I think this is a great time to transition into slow burn.

Syl: 02:36:31

Right?

Rachel: 02:36:32

Yes.

Han: 02:36:42

So, first of all, when he's in his little.

Han: 02:36:45

Eddie's in his little costume and he makes the reference to.

Han: 02:36:53

I don't remember what it is, because that one doesn't matter.

Han: 02:36:56

But Carla says, oh, yeah, I prefer Tango and Cash.

Han: 02:37:01

This is like a buddy cop movie that is, like, highly homoerotic.

Han: 02:37:09

I didn't, like, super delve into it, but if you just Google that and gay or queer, so much shit pops up.

Han: 02:37:19

So I was like.

Han: 02:37:21

I don't know if that's intentional.

Rachel: 02:37:23

Incredible.

Rachel: 02:37:25

I probably me.

Rachel: 02:37:27

That was also John Carpenter.

Rachel: 02:37:29

Was that right?

Han: 02:37:30

Yeah, it's the same person.

Han: 02:37:32

So there's a couple insane things that they do here.

Rachel: 02:37:36

Yes.

Han: 02:37:37

Cutting directly from the Eddie Shannon kiss, which is Eddie trying to defibrillate a relationship.

Han: 02:37:46

Cutting to Buck on the brink of calling time of death on his and Abby's.

Rachel: 02:37:50

Ooh, yeah.

Syl: 02:37:53

Just let me delve into that real quick.

Han: 02:37:56

Yeah.

Syl: 02:37:58

So, yeah, no, I thought it was interesting that they.

Syl: 02:38:01

That this is the episode where they decide to kind of, like, mirror the two relationships that they have.

Syl: 02:38:06

Not necessarily, like, direct mirrors, but I guess they're reverse mirrors.

Rachel: 02:38:09

Right.

Syl: 02:38:10

So, yeah, kind of like.

Syl: 02:38:13

Like what.

Syl: 02:38:13

What Hand said.

Syl: 02:38:15

Buck's relationship is dead.

Syl: 02:38:19

Dying.

Syl: 02:38:21

Dying to death.

Syl: 02:38:22

Door, Death Star.

Syl: 02:38:26

Meanwhile, Eddie's is, I guess, reviving.

Syl: 02:38:31

Resurfacing, maybe.

Syl: 02:38:33

Resurfacing.

Syl: 02:38:34

So while Eddie's is resurfacing with Shannon.

Syl: 02:38:40

And I think, like, there were some parallels that I kind of tried to make between Abby and Shannon, considering.

Syl: 02:38:52

But I guess.

Syl: 02:38:53

But again, they're kind of like reverse.

Syl: 02:38:57

So, like, like, the reasoning why.

Syl: 02:39:00

As to why they, like, left their.

Syl: 02:39:02

You know, like, why they left Bug or Eddie, it really is more reverse.

Syl: 02:39:08

It's not really a direct mirror, but so, like, on the one hand, still makes sense.

Syl: 02:39:15

On the one hand, like, Abby.

Syl: 02:39:16

Abby left to go basically find herself, travel.

Syl: 02:39:19

Meanwhile, Shannon left to take care of a dying mom.

Syl: 02:39:22

Because, like, I think that's one of the threads that they have in common, that their mom was brink of death, basically.

Syl: 02:39:32

Or just.

Syl: 02:39:32

Or because they both went.

Syl: 02:39:34

They both left to take care of a parent.

Rachel: 02:39:39

Ooh.

Rachel: 02:39:40

Ooh, that's so interesting.

Syl: 02:39:44

And then I think this kind of.

Syl: 02:39:45

This is where this whole thing starts, where.

Syl: 02:39:48

Oh, sorry, go ahead.

Han: 02:39:49

I was just gonna say.

Han: 02:39:50

Well, that's interesting, because it is very reverse mirror.

Han: 02:39:53

Because Buck helped Abby take care of her mother, while Eddie didn't refuse to go.

Syl: 02:40:00

Yeah.

Han: 02:40:01

Ooh, yeah.

Han: 02:40:04

And then Buck got left, even though he did that.

Rachel: 02:40:08

Yeah.

Rachel: 02:40:09

Like, the result was the same.

Han: 02:40:11

Yeah.

Syl: 02:40:13

And then there's, like, this whole thing.

Syl: 02:40:14

This other thing.

Syl: 02:40:15

I guess this is where they do mirror.

Syl: 02:40:17

Even though they.

Syl: 02:40:18

Abby and Shannon both left, Buck and Eddie, they never.

Syl: 02:40:24

They never came back.

Syl: 02:40:26

They both had hope that they were going to come back.

Rachel: 02:40:29

Yeah.

Syl: 02:40:29

But that clearly didn't happen.

Syl: 02:40:34

Although Shannon is back because of a reason.

Syl: 02:40:36

Because Eddie needed her to, like, board the school.

Syl: 02:40:40

Like, Eddie needed her to come back.

Rachel: 02:40:43

It wasn't his choice.

Syl: 02:40:45

Mm.

Syl: 02:40:46

Oh, right.

Syl: 02:40:47

And then I was gonna say, like, even though this probably doesn't.

Han: 02:40:49

This.

Syl: 02:40:49

This is probably gonna happen in the next episode.

Syl: 02:40:51

I feel like this is where that whole thing that Buck and Eddie do when they get into relationships.

Syl: 02:40:56

Like, one gets in a relationship, then the other needs to get into a relationship.

Syl: 02:41:01

I think this is where it's starting to start, because I think the next episode, that's where he gets.

Syl: 02:41:07

Well, he starts seeing Taylor, and I think at the end, he sees Ali.

Syl: 02:41:12

Sorry, Abby.

Syl: 02:41:13

Ali.

Rachel: 02:41:16

I know.

Rachel: 02:41:17

I think, like.

Rachel: 02:41:18

I think you're right.

Rachel: 02:41:19

Like, that is kind of where it's.

Rachel: 02:41:21

It's this inverse relationship, right, where they're on, like, opposite arcs.

Syl: 02:41:26

They do this thing where it's like.

Syl: 02:41:29

And then they break up, and then they, like, it's like a.

Syl: 02:41:32

And then they do it again and it's.

Syl: 02:41:35

Yeah, that probably no one can see that if you're listening to this.

Syl: 02:41:43

I don't know what to call that.

Syl: 02:41:45

Something about trains.

Syl: 02:41:46

Anyway.

Rachel: 02:41:52

I'm dead.

Syl: 02:41:54

I feel like there was another parallel that I just thought of, but it's gone now.

Han: 02:41:57

But anyway, I figured I have some parallels, Shannon and Buck.

Rachel: 02:42:04

I think you have one of mine.

Syl: 02:42:06

Oh, yes.

Syl: 02:42:06

I want to hear.

Han: 02:42:07

So I don't know the obvious ones.

Han: 02:42:11

So when he asks, what did you need that I didn't give you?

Han: 02:42:14

And she says, you a partner, A co parent.

Han: 02:42:19

Hmm.

Han: 02:42:20

Who does that sound like?

Han: 02:42:23

Does that sound like he does that for Buck and Buck, Is that for him?

Han: 02:42:28

Interesting.

Rachel: 02:42:30

I don't know.

Han: 02:42:31

And then a very specific wording choice.

Han: 02:42:34

She says, I needed someone to have my back.

Han: 02:42:38

And he said, I always did.

Han: 02:42:39

And she said, no, because you were, you know, in a different country, and we have the.

Han: 02:42:45

Your badass under pressure.

Han: 02:42:46

You can have my back any day.

Han: 02:42:47

Or you could have mine.

Rachel: 02:42:50

Like, these are so intentional, if not.

Han: 02:42:54

Intentional, how, if not gay, why so.

Rachel: 02:42:58

Gay, if not intentional, why?

Rachel: 02:43:02

Direct parallel.

Han: 02:43:03

Yeah, that's so direct, like, word for word.

Rachel: 02:43:08

Because that was, like, the climax of that argument, right?

Han: 02:43:12

Yeah.

Rachel: 02:43:13

So that is.

Rachel: 02:43:14

Those are the words that you've got to pay the most attention to.

Rachel: 02:43:18

And it's just so wild that, like, from the beginning, like, you know, Buck and Eddie have been having each other's backs, you know, once they got over, you know, Buck's little, like, hump of all of that.

Rachel: 02:43:36

And, like, you also.

Rachel: 02:43:38

You also see it in this episode, too.

Rachel: 02:43:41

Like on the.

Rachel: 02:43:42

When they're rappelling down the cliff.

Rachel: 02:43:46

Eddie watches Buck, Buck goes first to go down and kind of, like, figure out the trail.

Rachel: 02:43:52

So not only is.

Rachel: 02:43:56

Does Eddie, like, have his back to Buck, Buck is literally watching his back and guiding him, and he even, like.

Han: 02:44:05

Coaches him through it.

Rachel: 02:44:06

Yeah, yeah.

Rachel: 02:44:07

He's guiding him to, like, where they need to Go.

Han: 02:44:10

Yeah.

Rachel: 02:44:10

So it's.

Rachel: 02:44:11

It's the I'll have your back from the first episode of the season coming to fruition in a way that you can see it to Shannon being like, you never had my back.

Rachel: 02:44:24

Well, whose back does he have?

Rachel: 02:44:28

Who has his back in return?

Han: 02:44:31

And it's so, like, interesting that in an episode where they don't have a lot of scenes together or dialogue at.

Rachel: 02:44:38

All, they're paired off the entire time.

Han: 02:44:41

Mm.

Rachel: 02:44:42

Cause Bobby's like, buck and Eddie go and do this.

Rachel: 02:44:44

Buck and Eddie go and do that.

Han: 02:44:46

That Cause work.

Han: 02:44:48

But also the parallels that are paralleling already in the personal lives.

Han: 02:44:52

Coming up in an argument with his wife, like, unreal.

Rachel: 02:44:57

Like, from.

Rachel: 02:44:58

From the get go.

Rachel: 02:45:00

He's already solving.

Rachel: 02:45:02

Or he already has, like, alternatives that have solved his relationship issues with Shannon.

Rachel: 02:45:11

And he.

Rachel: 02:45:12

And he has that with Buck, like, from the get go.

Rachel: 02:45:18

Like, it's so.

Syl: 02:45:20

It feels deliberate.

Rachel: 02:45:22

It feels deliberate, right?

Han: 02:45:24

Not deliberate.

Han: 02:45:25

Why so deliberate?

Han: 02:45:29

I don't know what else to say, man.

Rachel: 02:45:31

I mean, it just, like, this is one of those kind of pieces of, like, parallels or pieces of evidence or whatever that is that is so, like, textually damning, damning, and like, in the forefront that it's so hard to just kind of, like, dismiss it.

Han: 02:45:52

How do you write that off?

Rachel: 02:45:54

Exactly?

Rachel: 02:45:55

You can't.

Han: 02:45:56

How do you write that off when his part.

Han: 02:45:58

His wife is saying that's what she needed and that's exactly what he's doing for his new friend Buck.

Rachel: 02:46:05

Like, yeah, like, it's so.

Rachel: 02:46:08

And.

Rachel: 02:46:09

And also, just like, we.

Rachel: 02:46:11

I don't think we even knew that, like, Eddie had a.

Rachel: 02:46:17

Like was married until he drops this news on Carla.

Rachel: 02:46:22

Like, we knew that he had an ex, but not.

Rachel: 02:46:25

Not that he had a wife.

Rachel: 02:46:26

And not even the fact that he was still married.

Rachel: 02:46:29

Like, that is a big bomb to drop or grenade, rather.

Han: 02:46:34

No, because all he ever said was, she's not in the picture.

Han: 02:46:37

Which is.

Rachel: 02:46:38

Yeah.

Han: 02:46:39

The vaguest non.

Han: 02:46:40

Answer.

Rachel: 02:46:42

And it's because.

Rachel: 02:46:43

It's because a lot of that those feelings of shame are up.

Rachel: 02:46:47

But it's just like the.

Rachel: 02:46:50

Just one of the biggest pieces of, like, you didn't have my back.

Rachel: 02:46:57

You can have my back any day.

Rachel: 02:46:59

What do you make of that?

Rachel: 02:47:01

If not endgame and we're not there yet.

Han: 02:47:04

But, like, the.

Han: 02:47:05

What is a partner for.

Han: 02:47:07

I know we're gonna fuck, actually, but I'm talking about the.

Rachel: 02:47:09

Yeah.

Rachel: 02:47:10

Oh, yeah.

Han: 02:47:11

Is that a Ravi.

Rachel: 02:47:12

Yeah, it's the Ravi quote about, like, you know what.

Rachel: 02:47:16

What is a partner supposed to be for?

Rachel: 02:47:18

They're supposed to, like, be there and see you on your worst days and still choose to be there.

Han: 02:47:23

Mm.

Rachel: 02:47:24

That is absolutely not what Eddie or Shannon were for each other.

Rachel: 02:47:29

Like, just putting.

Han: 02:47:31

Neither of them chose each other.

Rachel: 02:47:33

Exactly.

Rachel: 02:47:34

But who chooses each other every time?

Syl: 02:47:37

Fucking Eddie.

Rachel: 02:47:39

Fucking Eddie.

Rachel: 02:47:40

B, A, E.

Rachel: 02:47:44

Hold on, I need to.

Rachel: 02:47:45

I need to say this correctly.

Rachel: 02:47:46

B, F, F, F, F, A, E, N, T, B, N, M, W.

Rachel: 02:47:55

I did it read ice cream before dinner.

Rachel: 02:47:59

It's so good.

Han: 02:48:01

And then.

Han: 02:48:01

Thank us.

Rachel: 02:48:02

I did have one more parallel.

Rachel: 02:48:06

And then I'm done with my stuff.

Rachel: 02:48:08

When Shannon is talking to Eddie and she's.

Rachel: 02:48:12

She was lamenting over, you know, being alone and being pregnant and.

Rachel: 02:48:19

Or having a baby and Chris's CP and not knowing how to.

Rachel: 02:48:24

How to deal with it, and she was saying that she, you know, essentially, like, overcompensated by diving into finding treatments and therapies, and it was so, like, overwhelming.

Rachel: 02:48:37

Who else also does, like, dives headfirst into research a lot?

Rachel: 02:48:44

When.

Rachel: 02:48:46

When was deep diving into all of that bureaucratic red tape to try to help Eddie find, like, solutions for Christopher before he got in touch with Carla.

Rachel: 02:48:56

I'm just saying Eddie has a type.

Rachel: 02:49:01

Like, like the.

Rachel: 02:49:02

The way that they both kind of, like, tried to solve their problems by info dumping or, like, infogr, like, gathering and stuff like that.

Han: 02:49:13

Yeah.

Han: 02:49:13

We know he's a yapper.

Han: 02:49:14

Sexual.

Rachel: 02:49:15

Yeah.

Rachel: 02:49:18

I just thought that was an interesting parallel as well, because we also, like, we see where.

Rachel: 02:49:23

Whereas Shannon said that she just got so overwhelmed and she needed a break, Buck kind of followed through with that.

Rachel: 02:49:33

Right.

Rachel: 02:49:33

Because he.

Rachel: 02:49:34

That's how he got Eddie in touch with Carla.

Rachel: 02:49:38

So there's also a little, you know, where Shannon and Eddie didn't have each other's back.

Rachel: 02:49:45

Another reason how fucking he did.

Han: 02:49:50

Well, not to jump ahead, but then there's like, the time that Eddie is really depressed because he told his son that he could do anything and then realized that he can't do anything because he hurt himself on a skateboard.

Han: 02:50:02

And Buck just goes, I can fix that, and does it without being asked.

Rachel: 02:50:08

Yep.

Syl: 02:50:09

He is the dad that stepped up.

Han: 02:50:13

Yeah.

Han: 02:50:13

So instead of, like, looking and I'm not trying to, like, vilify Shannon.

Han: 02:50:17

No, I really am not.

Han: 02:50:18

I'm trying to be.

Rachel: 02:50:20

You know, there's a lot of empathy that can be had there, of course, but.

Han: 02:50:24

But it's just the way that she talks about his CP is.

Han: 02:50:29

It makes me really angry.

Han: 02:50:31

And I don't think that she doesn't love her kid, but it's like it's like, oh, yeah, it's like when Eddie went, like, I don't want him to be treated differently.

Han: 02:50:40

Like, I don't want him to be treated like he's some special case, just a special case of special needs.

Han: 02:50:48

And that's how Shannon treats him a little bit.

Rachel: 02:50:52

And Eddie's parents.

Rachel: 02:50:55

Well, yeah, well, yeah, I, I think, I think there's also something to be said of like how Eddie, like never prioritizes himself.

Rachel: 02:51:06

It's not that, not that Shannon, like, wasn't prioritizing Chris, but she, like, I don't want to be mean and say, like, was more selfish than Eddie, but.

Han: 02:51:15

No, it's more selfish.

Han: 02:51:16

I'm sorry.

Han: 02:51:16

Okay, listen.

Han: 02:51:18

And the hierarchy of who you need to take care of.

Han: 02:51:21

If you're a parent, it's your kid number one all the time.

Han: 02:51:26

Really sorry that your parent is sick, but like, you have to take care of your kid first.

Han: 02:51:33

And if she didn't want to stay there, then she could have tried to take Christopher.

Han: 02:51:38

Like, she could have done more than just saying, I would like to go to California.

Han: 02:51:42

And Eddie being like, I need a minute, I just got back here.

Han: 02:51:45

And her being like, I need a minute too passive aggressive.

Han: 02:51:48

And then just leaving like, I'm sorry, that's really bad behavior.

Han: 02:51:54

That's not.

Rachel: 02:51:54

It shows, it shows how much.

Rachel: 02:51:58

I mean, at this point, like, we know Eddie has a lot of empath.

Rachel: 02:52:01

He's trying to have a lot of empathy and see things from her perspective.

Rachel: 02:52:05

But it kind of shows that Shannon doesn't really have a lot for Eddie as well.

Rachel: 02:52:11

And I think a lot of that is like shrouded in the hurt, which is understandable, but like, you still have to kind of like understand what he's going through to an extent also.

Han: 02:52:21

Why wasn't it an option for them to move her mom in with them?

Rachel: 02:52:26

Maybe they were living at the, at his parents house.

Han: 02:52:30

I'm just saying, like, there was no.

Han: 02:52:32

She said, can you think about doing this?

Han: 02:52:34

And he was like overwhelmed, had just got back from being shot and like traumatized.

Han: 02:52:40

And she was like, can we move?

Han: 02:52:42

And he was like, can I just get a minute?

Rachel: 02:52:45

Yeah.

Rachel: 02:52:46

With.

Han: 02:52:47

Instead of communicating further, she just went, okay, bye.

Rachel: 02:52:51

I mean, with Eddie, he said he, he was like being overwhelmed.

Rachel: 02:52:58

He said he just needed to take some time.

Rachel: 02:53:02

But when Shannon got overwhelmed, she took a break.

Rachel: 02:53:06

And I think there's a difference there, which we'll probably get to more with like, with Eddie Biggins when we find out.

Rachel: 02:53:13

But.

Han: 02:53:14

Well, and like we said earlier, you don't Take breaks from parenting.

Han: 02:53:17

Yeah, it's not a thing, but yeah.

Rachel: 02:53:21

Anyway, Buck has Eddie's back.

Rachel: 02:53:23

Eddie has Buck's back.

Rachel: 02:53:25

It's gay.

Rachel: 02:53:25

The end.

Syl: 02:53:26

And then you have parallel to 705.

Rachel: 02:53:28

Yeah.

Rachel: 02:53:29

Oh, yeah.

Han: 02:53:31

That's probably the last thing.

Han: 02:53:32

So we have a little foreshadowing and paralleling.

Rachel: 02:53:35

I forgot that.

Rachel: 02:53:37

Yeah.

Han: 02:53:37

Or callback from, depending which direction you're looking from.

Han: 02:53:40

But.

Han: 02:53:41

So in this episode, Maddie says, I love Maddie.

Han: 02:53:45

Oh, Maddie says, I think you do know, like, what to do about Abby.

Han: 02:53:51

It just may take you some time to admit it to yourself.

Han: 02:53:55

And in 705.

Rachel: 02:53:59

She.

Han: 02:54:00

He's talking to her about, like, lying to Eddie and how he feels really guilty about it after having just, like, injured him playing basketball because he was jealous that he made a new friend.

Han: 02:54:09

Anyway, she had to listen to all that shit.

Rachel: 02:54:15

She's a saint.

Han: 02:54:17

And she says, I just think you're not sure of your own feelings yet.

Han: 02:54:22

And if there's something that you need to tell Eddie, you will just in your own time.

Han: 02:54:27

And he went, yeah, I'll tell him I'm bisexual.

Han: 02:54:31

Like, that's what he got from me.

Han: 02:54:37

Big dumb bisexual.

Han: 02:54:38

Like, you're so smart, but you're so dumb.

Han: 02:54:40

Affectionate.

Han: 02:54:41

So dumb.

Rachel: 02:54:42

Is that not, like, verbatim what she says both times?

Rachel: 02:54:49

Maddie Buckley, the woman that you are.

Syl: 02:54:52

I feel like Maddie's just.

Syl: 02:54:55

She.

Syl: 02:54:57

I don't.

Syl: 02:54:57

I don't even know what.

Syl: 02:54:58

Look, I'm, like, thinking about the Buddy wedding when, you know, when it finally happens.

Syl: 02:55:03

Season nine, season ten.

Syl: 02:55:04

I don't know.

Syl: 02:55:05

But, like, she could walk him down the aisle or she can just officiate and be like, well, I.

Syl: 02:55:11

I moved these pieces together.

Syl: 02:55:13

Well, I guess she and Bobby could do that because he was also there.

Rachel: 02:55:17

Mastermind Maddie walks him down the aisle.

Han: 02:55:19

And stands with him and Bobby officiates.

Rachel: 02:55:22

Okay.

Rachel: 02:55:24

Yes.

Rachel: 02:55:25

Locked in.

Han: 02:55:26

Unless he wants Bobby to give him away because Bobby's his dad.

Rachel: 02:55:30

Oh, either way, yes.

Rachel: 02:55:36

You just saw us, like, drifting away into, like, fanon land.

Han: 02:55:40

What did Oliver Pseudo agree to in that one interview?

Han: 02:55:46

They were like, oh, Buddy Wedding, Season 10.

Syl: 02:55:50

Is that what he's.

Rachel: 02:55:51

Yeah, yeah.

Rachel: 02:55:53

TikTok.

Syl: 02:55:55

Oh, my God.

Han: 02:55:56

But yeah, that's just.

Han: 02:55:58

Just some wild.

Han: 02:55:59

More wild parallels.

Rachel: 02:56:01

She totally has him clocked.

Han: 02:56:03

She.

Han: 02:56:03

From the get go.

Han: 02:56:05

She was like, oh, my God, you're so damn bad.

Rachel: 02:56:09

Yeah, that's.

Rachel: 02:56:10

That's just a wild, like, almost verbatim piece of dialogue.

Rachel: 02:56:16

And how well Maddie knows Buck even when Buck doesn't always know himself.

Rachel: 02:56:23

Crazy.

Rachel: 02:56:24

The slow burn is.

Syl: 02:56:26

Is burning Slow Burn's been burning for six years.

Han: 02:56:32

Oh, my God, it sounds like a wildfire.

Han: 02:56:39

Wow.

Han: 02:56:43

Can't believe.

Syl: 02:56:43

I didn't mean.

Syl: 02:56:44

Then talk about Christopher in his little Wolverine costume.

Han: 02:56:51

I wanted to talk about that.

Han: 02:56:53

I just wanted to say that it's so fucking cute.

Syl: 02:56:54

It's adorable and so fucking cute.

Syl: 02:56:57

And I was just.

Syl: 02:56:58

And I think when I was.

Syl: 02:56:59

When I was watching that, I was like, well, now that they are owned by Disney, they could.

Syl: 02:57:05

And now that they're owned by Disney, they could, like, for the other Halloween episodes, they can just, like, dress them up as other, like, Avengers and all the things.

Han: 02:57:16

What if we did the Mandalorian and.

Rachel: 02:57:21

Oh, no, I don't know.

Rachel: 02:57:22

The Mandalorian and Han Solo and little Grogu.

Han: 02:57:28

And Little Grogu read One Bright Morning Changes All Things by his pole Star.

Rachel: 02:57:36

So good.

Rachel: 02:57:37

Also so good.

Syl: 02:57:38

And also I think just one more thing to add, which is my.

Syl: 02:57:43

I guess because we're at this point in time, they're either filming episode five or episode six.

Syl: 02:57:50

One of them is a Halloween episode.

Syl: 02:57:52

And I remember and I.

Syl: 02:57:54

And I think in one of the interviews, they said that Buck is going to have a conversation with Maddie and Josh.

Syl: 02:58:00

So a couple things Buck taught me, Bones and I need.

Syl: 02:58:06

And I need a parallel conversation about, like, well, if you're, you know what you need to do, you'll do it in your own time, kind of like.

Syl: 02:58:14

So that could be about Buck, Tommy, Bones, that could be about Eddie.

Syl: 02:58:17

But I know there's going to be something in Buck's relationship that it's to parallel.

Syl: 02:58:25

To parallel this and make it so.

Rachel: 02:58:29

Yes, but yeah, to parallel what?

Syl: 02:58:33

Parallel.

Syl: 02:58:33

Just this, like, this episode.

Syl: 02:58:35

Like his conversation with Maddie and all that.

Rachel: 02:58:38

Oh.

Han: 02:58:38

Oh, yeah.

Han: 02:58:39

And let's just say Happy Halloween because I don't know if this one's coming on Halloween or not.

Syl: 02:58:45

Oh, yeah.

Rachel: 02:58:46

Happy Halloween.

Syl: 02:58:47

Happy Halloween.

Han: 02:58:48

Happy Halloween.

Syl: 02:58:49

Remember, don't go on a hike by.

Rachel: 02:58:51

Yourself, but if you do, take a.

Han: 02:58:54

Ghost buddy with you.

Han: 02:59:01

Thank you for listening to the Buddy System podcast from start to finish.

Syl: 02:59:05

We literally cannot shut up about 911, so please come talk to us on your favorite social media platform.

Rachel: 02:59:11

We are Buddy System POD everywhere.

Rachel: 02:59:14

That's bu d d I e System pod.

Han: 02:59:19

Leave a five star review on Spotify or Apple podcasts to get a personal shout out in the next episode.

Han: 02:59:24

The Buddy System is a nerd Virgin Media production featuring music from Divinity.

Syl: 02:59:29

Can't get enough of the buddies.

Syl: 02:59:31

Subscribe to our Patreon for access to exclusive content in our Discord community.

Rachel: 02:59:36

Catch you next time.

Rachel: 02:59:37

And don't forget, bring a buddy with.