Episode 10

full
Published on:

14th Nov 2024

This Girl is On Fire (2x09: Hen Begins)

Oh, Henrietta Wilson, the woman that you are. We definitely see you!

This week Han, Cil, and Rachel flock together to discuss Hen's journey from a corporate job to the firefighting world and how that symbolizes a quest for purpose and authenticity. We unpack the toxic dynamics at the 118 under Captain Gerrard, where hazing and discrimination run rampant, contrasting it with the supportive, family-like atmosphere that Bobby brings to the team. 


Hen's character embodies the struggles faced by women, particularly queer women of color as they navigate their careers in fields rife with systemic bias and prejudice. The beginning of Hen's relationships with Chimney and Athena provides crucial support as she faces the challenges of her new role. 


This episode serves as a deeply impactful hero’s origin story for Hen, due in no small part to Aisha Hinds’ real life past experiences with trauma and loss. Showcasing her unwavering commitment to saving lives against the odds, Season 2 Episode 9 of 9-1-1, “Hen Begins” is a testament to tenacity, following your calling, and the power of self-assuredness.



📔 Articles Mentioned:

📰 ‘9-1-1’ Star Aisha Hinds Talks Exploring Henrietta’s Origin Story in ‘Hen Begins’, TV Insider


Chapters:

(00:00:00) Welcome to Dispatch & Calls of the Week (Intro)

(00:02:26) Exploring Origins: Hen's Journey

(00:11:46) Jaws of Life (Deep Dive)

(00:23:53) Flashover (Themes)

(00:34:59) Who’s Cookin’ (Character Arc: It’s the Hen-isode!)

(00:38:07) The Boiling Point: Hen's Decision to Quit

(00:47:29) The Hero's Journey

(00:54:57) Navigating Passion With or Without Eva’s Support

(01:03:14) Hen Versus “The Old Guard” of the 118

(01:15:06) Fostering Friendship (Bestieism Begins) 

(01:24:22) The Evolution of Hen's Journey

(01:37:50) Where’s the Fire? (Scene Dissection)

(01:38:50) Lack of Teamwork and Landscape of Toxicity 

(01:50:25) Antagonist or Ally? (Tommy Talk)

(01:54:38) Oh Captain, My Captain! (Bobby vs Gerrard Leadership)

(02:03:58) Gerrard & Tommy Through the Lens of Season 8

(02:16:32) Exploring Hen's Character Development

(02:21:07) Bring a Buddie With You & Outro



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Music by DIV!NITY

Transcript
Han:

Have you ever watched something that completely rewired your brain chemistry?

Syl:

A procedural network drama might not be your usual pick, but it's ours.

Rachel:

This is the Buddy System, a 911 deep dive podcast hosted by three friends who have DM'd each other enough character dissertations to earn a PhD in media literacy.

Han:

I'm Han, coming to you straight from the characters heads.

Syl:

I'm Syl, bringing you to the observation deck.

Rachel:

And I'm Rachel, connecting the dots with my red string.

Han:

With our powers combined, no stone is.

Rachel:

Left unturned and no buddy is left behind.

Syl:

This episode's sponsored by Billy Eichner.

Syl:

Let's go, lesbians.

Syl:

Let's go.

Syl:

Welcome to Dispatch.

Syl:

What's on call this week?

Han:

This week we're discussing season two, episode nine, Hen Begins, written by Aristotle Kasakis and directed by Jennifer Lynch.

Han:

,:

Han:

We're almost at the anniversary.

Han:

Six years.

Han:

Wow, look at that.

Syl:

Oh, my God.

Syl:

It's my, I guess, birthday episode.

Rachel:

Oh.

Rachel:

Or just after.

Syl:

Day after.

Han:

Yeah, close enough.

Rachel:

A present for you.

Rachel:

So with the calls this week, we see the impactful emergencies that help set Hen on her path.

Rachel:

So it's a little different because this is the first of the Begins episode.

Rachel:

So the calls that we see are the career aptitude tests are more sophisticated than they used to be.

Rachel:

Where.

Rachel:

Where Hen's life coach has a heart attack during a session, and Hen springs into action, performing CPR and calling 91 1, ultimately saving her life.

Rachel:

I don't know if that's at me or at sil.

Han:

Oh, it is.

Han:

Well, it was originally at sil, but then I started getting the joke and.

Rachel:

Sorry.

Rachel:

No, you're fine.

Han:

TJ was like, she's a really good therapist.

Han:

She was like, what if.

Han:

He was like, what if she's like a level 10 yogi who can, like, slow her heart rate down?

Syl:

Did that on purpose.

Syl:

Oh, interesting.

Rachel:

The next one we see is slip and slide.

Rachel:

Fun for the whole family.

Rachel:

And Hen goes against orders to free a mother trapped by a mudslide that crashed through her house.

Rachel:

The third call is, where are water wings when you need them?

Rachel:

After disobeying Captain Gerard again, Hen follows her intuition to discover a second car involved in a crash that had capsized in the water, and she's able to retrieve and resuscitate a young boy.

Rachel:

Like I mentioned, this is the first of our True Begins episodes that become a running theme throughout the series.

Rachel:

We kind of had, like, an unofficial begins with origin story with Bobby in season one.

Rachel:

But With Hen Begins, that's the first episode that we truly are able to dive deeper into only, like one of our main characters backgrounds and the kind of the hallmark of a Begins episode is essentially how they became a firefighter paramedic, like, their path towards where they are now.

Rachel:

Also watching this episode where we are now in from like season seven and season eight was very interesting.

Rachel:

So we will be looking at it, like, through that lens as well.

Rachel:

But what do you guys think about rewatching this one?

Syl:

I still hate Tommy Kennard.

Syl:

That's it.

Syl:

That's all I have.

Han:

The reviews for Begins are in.

Han:

Fuck Tommy Kennard.

Han:

Five stars.

Han:

Yeah.

Syl:

I mean, everyone, like.

Syl:

I mean, most of the people, most of the firefighters of the 118 at that time, except for Chimney and Hen, of course, like, were in general, like, so it was great to see that they were so not what we're used to, which is, you know, people who like, you know, the whole found family type of thing.

Syl:

Like, they were just there working a job.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Syl:

And following an captain's orders.

Han:

That's it.

Rachel:

Very different.

Syl:

Very different now, like, Hen, like, it was like, interesting to see, not that it wasn't just so, you know, like in 206, she says that, oh, I wanted to become a firefighter because of the paramedics that took care of me after I got shot.

Syl:

So it's interesting that it's actually a little bit more layered that there were like, she was doing something else in her life as a.

Syl:

Was it.

Syl:

She was like a pharma sales.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Rachel:

Pharmaceutical rep or pharmaceutical rep.

Syl:

So it was interesting that she just came from, like, I guess like your regular 9 to 5 corporate to, you know, being a hero.

Syl:

And it's also.

Syl:

I mean, we'll talk more about this.

Syl:

Like, I just found it really interesting and I connected it to another, like, popular character.

Syl:

Like the whole I don't like bullies thing.

Syl:

I'm sure you.

Rachel:

Yeah, yeah.

Rachel:

So I think we all went there a little.

Syl:

Oh, I know who you are a little bit.

Syl:

But yeah, no, I like these, like, I love the Begins episodes because, you know, you get to see like that, like their backstory and you'll learn more of their motivations and like, what got them to become a firefighter.

Rachel:

And we see it's really not necessarily like a straight trajectory.

Rachel:

Like we were kind of led to believe with some of them from episode.

Han:

Six with Dose, to be fair, being like.

Han:

So I was doing jobs that I hated and were soul sucking.

Han:

And then my therapist had a heart attack and suddenly I was like, yeah, this is.

Han:

You know, it just sounds better to be, like.

Han:

To have that PR answer ready to roll out.

Han:

But, yeah, I really like this episode.

Han:

I love seeing more hen because I feel like at this point in the show, we don't have enough hen.

Han:

Sometimes I don't know if that's actually true, but it feels like, as far as the ensemble balance that she tends to be.

Han:

Her and Chimney, I think we see the least of at this point.

Han:

So it's really cool to learn more about her past and what really motivated her to want to do this job.

Han:

And then it's really cool to look at it from a lens of all she's been through and where she's at now, and looking back at this journey and kind of seeing how she.

Han:

Like, she's been through so much, but she's still the same person.

Han:

Like, she's always just been.

Han:

She's always just been, like, so, like.

Rachel:

Level in who she is.

Rachel:

Yeah, like her core personhood.

Han:

Yeah, I was just gonna say just like a badass bitch.

Han:

Like, she just.

Han:

She's not taking anyone's shit.

Han:

She is smart and competent, and she, you know, goes after what she wants until she gets it and gets it done.

Han:

So my only complaint with this episode is, again, only just formatting for, like, our show slightly weird because of our whole.

Han:

Our different segments.

Han:

So, like, it's really.

Han:

We formatted our podcast around the ensemble setup.

Han:

Right.

Han:

And so since this is really just hen, Chimney is there and Athena is briefly there, but there's no character arc for them to talk about, and it just obviously, there's no slow burn to talk about.

Han:

So it's just a little weird for me to try and be like, okay.

Rachel:

Yeah, it's like, all character arc, but specifically one character as opposed to looking at all of them.

Rachel:

But we're going really deep with HEN because the episode does so.

Han:

When I was watching this with TJ earlier, he was like, this is a superhero origin story.

Han:

And I was like, yes, it is, because firefighters are superheroes, but really, hers is kind of the only one that is formatted this way like a superhero origin story.

Han:

You know, where it's like, she was unhappy, and then it's like she did the whole hero's journey to get to, like, where she is.

Han:

Right.

Han:

Where, like, everyone else's, like, begins is kind of either also has some present stuff happening, or it kind of just goes deeper into, like, family things or relationships.

Han:

And hers was very much just her and her becoming a firefighter and why and how that happened.

Han:

So it Very much.

Han:

Was just like, you could have turned this into a superhero movie.

Han:

Like, it very much kind of fit the formula of that.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Rachel:

Which is so interesting then to connect it to the unofficial Bobby Begins episode, which was point of origin.

Rachel:

I think that was episode five in the first season.

Rachel:

And we were talking about superheroes, like, the entire time.

Rachel:

So I think.

Rachel:

I think that is kind of what they were honing in or modeling this off of.

Han:

Is it the only one that's narrated too?

Rachel:

I don't remember.

Rachel:

But does Buck Begins have a voiceover?

Han:

Don't think so.

Han:

Buck and Eddie begins.

Han:

No, Chimneys is the only one.

Han:

I can't say for sure.

Syl:

I don't think Chimneys.

Rachel:

I don't think Chimney does any of the voiceovers, actually.

Han:

No, I don't think he does either.

Rachel:

I would love Chimney to do a voiceover.

Han:

I would love just an episode of Just Chimney's internal monologue.

Rachel:

Just pop culture references everywhere.

Rachel:

It would.

Rachel:

Honestly, it would just be like looking into our brains, probably.

Han:

But, yeah, so it's just like its own.

Han:

This is a little like.

Han:

I mean, in all the Begins episodes are kind of in their own way, like their own little format encapsulated.

Han:

But this one specifically, I feel like, is even more so, which is not a bad thing.

Han:

It's just if you see me struggling or I'm, like, weirdly quiet.

Rachel:

That's why we'll see how this one goes.

Rachel:

We might change the formatting a little bit for the next Begins, which I think is coming up soon.

Rachel:

Is it Chimney Begins?

Rachel:

Because I'm pretty sure it's.

Syl:

Yeah, well, I think it's after the Christmas episode.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Rachel:

Oh, and that's why.

Rachel:

Because it's kind of like a little in set after things happen.

Rachel:

So is that it for our opening thoughts?

Syl:

Our thinking thoughts, Pinky thoughts?

Syl:

Yes.

Han:

We're gonna need the Jaws of Life.

Rachel:

Over here before we really dive into Hen for our Jaws of Life deep dive.

Rachel:

I did find an article with Aisha Hines, who plays Hen.

Rachel:

We love her so much.

Han:

We've.

Rachel:

We've talked about her, just, like, how wonderful she is.

Rachel:

And.

Rachel:

And this was an interesting article that came out around the same time that the episode did, so.

Rachel:

Promo for that.

Rachel:

So the article is titled 911 star Aisha Hines talks exploring Henrietta's origin story in Hen Begins.

Rachel:

And I really liked a couple quotes that actually that I'd like to read for you because I didn't know this and I saw and I read it and, like, my jaw dropped.

Rachel:

I was like, no way.

Rachel:

But then it wasn't super surprising.

Rachel:

I'll get to that in a second.

Rachel:

Just a quick, just funny thing in.

Rachel:

In the byline of the article, there was a quick snippet when they're talking about Gerard and his introduction.

Rachel:

And I thought it was really funny because they compared him to.

Rachel:

They say Gerard makes J.

Rachel:

Jonah Jameson's treatment of Peter Parker seem kind hearted.

Rachel:

And I love that also because of how it relates to the first episode in season eight.

Rachel:

And I thought that was fantastic.

Rachel:

Just a funny little happenstance then.

Rachel:

But I'll get into the actual interview.

Rachel:

The interviewer said, you know, this script must have been an actor's dream.

Rachel:

We see how Hen became a firefighter and there's kind of like a baptism of fire kind of literally there.

Rachel:

And great, great word choice.

Rachel:

And Aisha said that, that she had previously shared in a some sort of panel a story about herself when she had been asked if anyone on the show had ever called 911.

Rachel:

And she recounted a story when someone called it for her when she had been shot at the age of 16.

Rachel:

Does that sound familiar?

Han:

Tim Miner.

Rachel:

Tim Miner, Yes, I know, right?

Rachel:

So I know what you are.

Rachel:

So then she says, Tim Mynier, our executive producer, called and asked if he could use that as Hen's story.

Rachel:

And she thought it was a perfect story that would inform the way that would inform the Hen that they created.

Rachel:

real life had passed away in:

Rachel:

By the time she got there, she had to make the same decision that Hen did in Haunted.

Han:

You're kidding.

Rachel:

And I know, like, when I tell you, I read that and my job dropped like, I have goosebumps reading that.

Rachel:

And so she was really like, art was imitating life.

Rachel:

So you have an instance here of this collaboration that we're learning as we go through a lot of these, like, older articles and some of the new ones that are popping up now that this show is so collaborative, specifically with Tim Minier, and he takes a lot of real life inspiration and infuses that into the characters.

Rachel:

And I think that is one of the reasons why we've said from the beginning that these characters feel so fully fleshed out, so real to life.

Rachel:

It's because they're based on real life people, the real life of the people playing them.

Rachel:

And we know there are more instances of that.

Rachel:

And it's just like.

Rachel:

And the fact that Aisha also.

Han:

It.

Rachel:

Kind of blows your mind a little bit because you have that instance of intentionally, you know, adding some of the real life story into the character in a way that makes sense and is beautifully done.

Rachel:

But then you also have one of those just, I don't know, like, invisible strings.

Rachel:

Some sort of, like, fate thing.

Rachel:

Destiny, you might call it, where, like, the writers didn't know about her experience with her dad passing away and basically gave it to her there.

Rachel:

And then she had to.

Rachel:

And I know this was like a couple of episodes ago, but then she had to, like, actually play it out on screen.

Rachel:

And just like, the way that she's able to tap into that, I don't know at what point they knew about it.

Rachel:

I would imagine she would have told them while they were filming or when she got the script and just kind of like, what kind of reaction would you have to reading your real life in this fictionalized form and nobody knew about it?

Rachel:

That's crazy.

Han:

That is crazy.

Han:

It also.

Han:

It also just, like, makes me think that, like, the cast must be like, well, don't tell Tim anything about yourself that you're not willing to act out on screen.

Rachel:

Yeah, I mean, like.

Han:

I mean, like, obviously he's asking permission to write it, of course, and they.

Rachel:

Have to say yes or no, but, like, also.

Han:

Right, right.

Han:

But that's the joke also, like, super.

Han:

I mean, I don't know the situation or the story of, like, how she got shot, but, like, it seems like a personal story.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Han:

So that speaks to, like, how kind of, like, close or, like, comfortable and safe that the cast must feel to, like, open up to, you know, the showrunner, writer, executive producer, to tell them stuff like that about themselves.

Rachel:

Right.

Han:

It's pretty cool.

Rachel:

And also, I think both of those stories just, like, speak to Aisha's like, real life resiliency and how strong of a person that she is, just in general, like, beyond, you know, playing this character, I feel like that really speaks to her strength as a human being, which she obviously, especially in this episode, really funnels in to Hen's strength as well in a beautiful way.

Rachel:

There's a couple other quotes that I thought were interesting, but that was like, the main reason that I was just like, oh, like, really taken aback there.

Rachel:

So Aisha also spoke about how.

Rachel:

How Hen just doesn't give up, even when Gerard is giving her a hard time.

Rachel:

And she said the question became, how much is she going to endure once Hen saved her therapist's life, which is the launching pad for her becoming a first responder, that locked her into her purpose and there was nothing that was going to stand in the way of her carrying out her purpose.

Rachel:

And I think that is like, the strength of Hen is she's just so, like, headstrong.

Rachel:

And if she.

Rachel:

She puts her mind to something, she will carry through, like, there's.

Rachel:

There's no dropping it for her.

Rachel:

And then we also.

Rachel:

The interviewer also mentioned, you know, seeing the beginnings of Hen's relationships with Athena and Chimney.

Rachel:

And Aisha said it was great to have them because in real life, they're really anchors for her.

Rachel:

It's great to finish a take, look over and see Kenneth, make her laugh or encourage her.

Rachel:

And when speaking about Angela Bassett, Aisha said, if I felt like I couldn't do it, she'd say, aisha, they gave it to you because they felt you could handle it.

Rachel:

They helped me get to the finish line of what I'm now calling the Henna Sode.

Rachel:

And I just love that for so many reasons, because, you know, for a Begins episode, you don't have, like, Bobby or Buck or Eddie or Maddie or you don't have Karen yet either.

Rachel:

So, like, all of the people that we're so used to seeing Hen interact with are not yet there.

Rachel:

So I love that she was able to bounce off, like, some of her castmates, especially Kenneth Choi and Angela Bassett, because they're just great.

Rachel:

And one more thing.

Rachel:

Sorry, they also.

Rachel:

So the interviewer also said it'd be interesting to see Captain Gerard pop up now again in Hen's life.

Rachel:

We'd see how he changed, or sadly, perhaps how he hasn't.

Rachel:

I just wanted to.

Rachel:

To bring that up because there's always like that, even in Episode or even in season two, there is like, that possibility of bringing the.

Rachel:

Some of these characters back.

Rachel:

And of course, we'd see him in Chimney Begins as well.

Rachel:

But, like, we also see him now.

Han:

In the current season.

Rachel:

So I think that was.

Rachel:

That was just interesting.

Han:

Never, never let characters or anything die.

Rachel:

Exactly.

Han:

Even if the characters die.

Rachel:

So that's pretty much it for that article.

Rachel:

It's a good read.

Rachel:

And then there were just a couple things I wanted to point out in my little red string corner, as this is season two.

Rachel:

The writer of this episode, Aristotle Kasakis, also wrote in season one, he wrote Trapped, which was episode nine of season one.

Rachel:

And just to remind everybody and ourselves of what that one was, that was the episode.

Rachel:

Obviously, people were trapped in things.

Rachel:

But one of the calls that we saw that really affected Hen was the homeless man in the garbage truck.

Rachel:

And we saw Hen, like, very Angry because it was coming off of, you know, her having cheated with Ava.

Rachel:

And I think this was the episode where she had that big confrontation with Ava the first time and she had lunch with Athena to talk about it and that sort of stuff.

Rachel:

So I think there might be a couple similar themes to pull from that, like resiliency.

Rachel:

And that was kind of what I remembered.

Rachel:

So just keep that in mind that this can be tied to Trapped.

Rachel:

And do you guys.

Rachel:

Have you guys seen those, like, subtle foreshadowing edits that have been going around on, like, Twitter and TikTok and stuff where people are like, you know, super cutting, like, moments before disaster sort of thing with like, the disaster.

Rachel:

And it just kind of like, chop, chop, chop, chop.

Rachel:

I was kind of getting that vibe from this episode because there are so many establishing shots, like between scenes of just like rainy weather, very rainy, you know, bad weather.

Rachel:

So it's from the very beginning of the episode, it's kind of setting up this, like, big call with the mudslide and kind of doing that in a subtle, not subtle way.

Rachel:

I don't know.

Rachel:

It's kind of subtle, but it's not, like, as subtle as it could be.

Rachel:

Like, you know, you're meant to notice it, but not pay, like, too much attention, I guess.

Han:

About as subtle as the four different fire mentions we get before she decides to become a firefighter.

Rachel:

I know, right?

Rachel:

Oh, right.

Rachel:

And then, I don't know.

Rachel:

Mudslide makes me think of the well, that's all.

Han:

Everything makes you think of the well, Rachel.

Rachel:

That'S all.

Syl:

A minor.

Syl:

A minor inconvenience.

Syl:

Well.

Rachel:

A minor convenience.

Han:

A minor convenience.

Syl:

Minor.

Rachel:

I.

Han:

We gotta go.

Rachel:

Okay, so that was all I had about deep dive y stuff.

Han:

Should we talk about themes?

Han:

Yeah.

Han:

Is that where we're at?

Syl:

Yes, we are le themes.

Rachel:

So I think there are.

Rachel:

I think there are themes in the episode.

Rachel:

No, duh.

Rachel:

Of course there are themes in the episode.

Rachel:

This is why we're doing this.

Han:

Cut the check.

Rachel:

Cut the check.

Han:

Transition.

Han:

We're done.

Rachel:

It seems to me that the themes we have in this episode are kind of very much speaking to what we're seeing throughout the season as a whole.

Rachel:

Like some of these season themes, and they're kind of a little heavier.

Rachel:

Not heavy handed.

Rachel:

I mean, that's.

Rachel:

I wouldn't say heavy handed, but the themes themselves are a little heavier than we might normally see.

Rachel:

And I think that is because it's informed by the content of the episode.

Rachel:

So I think we've been talking most of the season so far about Loneliness like as far back as the first episode of season two where everyone is kind of like feeling on their own, feeling lonely, like not having someone to lean on.

Rachel:

Which of course connects to the idea of like support systems and being able to have a support system because you can't lone wolf it through life.

Rachel:

That's.

Rachel:

It may be possible for some people, but in something like this where you're working with a team and you need people, people need people.

Rachel:

So loneliness feeling like an outsider specifically for hence.

Rachel:

And even we see this with chimney as well, who's already in stationed at the 118 and how that kind of differs for them.

Rachel:

There's also, I think one of the major obvious themes that tend to be a little heavier or a little more like bigger societally is existing in a white male dominated world or field or environment as a minority, as a person of color, as a woman, as part of the queer community.

Rachel:

So that's like a big issue, big theme that we haven't really delved into with 911 yet.

Rachel:

And kind of like this idea of.

Rachel:

One of our other themes for the season and kind of of the series is that feeling seen being seen.

Han:

I think it's also like deeper, like you were saying, like these themes are a little heavier and.

Rachel:

Deeper is a good word.

Han:

And I think it's because you know of the world that that hen is trying to exist in and who she is having to just exist in the world in general, but specifically in this context.

Han:

So it's not just like that need that everyone feels like they want to be seen for who they are and cared for who they are.

Han:

This is a wanting to be seen and valued as a person, as a human base minimum.

Han:

Yes.

Han:

Because she is getting dehumanized on the regular all day at her job.

Han:

And this is not like something that is only happening to her at her job, you know, as, as a woman, a woman of color, a queer woman of color.

Han:

She is experiencing.

Han:

She's catching strays everywhere.

Han:

You know, she is.

Rachel:

This is not just her work world, this is the entire world that she lives in.

Han:

But so it's not just that like wanting to be seen and valued as like a person because of who you are as a person, but the wanting to like just be seen as a hu.

Han:

Like as a human just to be like, I, you're looking at me and you're not seeing a person, you're looking at me.

Han:

Like when she does that whole speech, basically what I take away from that is her being like, you look at me and you're just seeing these minority things, and then those scare you because you don't know anyone like me, and so you dehumanize me and write me off because I'm a woman.

Han:

You don't know any woman firefighters.

Han:

You don't know any black queer women.

Rachel:

Like, yeah, it's like they're only seeing these, like, facets.

Rachel:

Not even facet.

Rachel:

Just, like, these, like, little checkmark things of what describes her and not seeing beyond that.

Han:

Yep.

Han:

And because of those checkmark things, it's.

Han:

It's them ranking her as a lesser valued human.

Syl:

Mm.

Rachel:

But this also extends towards Chimney a little bit as well.

Rachel:

And we see just, like, a little peek into that, which will get more in depth with when we see Chimney begins.

Rachel:

But, like, them having to work so much harder to earn, like, the lowest modicum of respect when it should just be kind of freely given.

Rachel:

I mean, you have to earn respect, but just, like, you know, like, respect as a person.

Rachel:

Like we keep saying.

Rachel:

And they're not even, like, when Hen is, you know, not backing down and she's cleaning everything up and she's shining things up and, you know, they say, good job, but then still basically absolutely degrade her.

Rachel:

Like, she has to work so much harder than everyone else to get not even, like, near where people want to see her.

Syl:

Yeah.

Syl:

She even has to work just as hard to get to where.

Syl:

Because, like you said, we do see a glimpse of, like, the way they treated Chimney as well.

Syl:

And then we're gonna get that episode too.

Syl:

But, like, she's not even at Chimney's level of being, like, at a base level of respected.

Syl:

So.

Syl:

Yeah.

Syl:

No, the way they treated her there is just despicable.

Syl:

Big no.

Syl:

Big no.

Rachel:

What you just said kind of brings us into another one of the big themes, which is awful people.

Rachel:

And I think, you know, the episode.

Rachel:

The episode awful people kind of doesn't even hold a candle to the, like.

Han:

To the Hen and Chimney begins episodes.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Rachel:

Because, like, the toxic masculinity is just off the charts.

Rachel:

Like, they're like.

Rachel:

They're just absolutely awful people, and they don't even care to be nice.

Rachel:

Ugh.

Han:

It's not even, like, just being nice.

Han:

It's like, you know, you're in a workplace.

Han:

You're.

Han:

There should be a just, like, level of, like, you have to behave a certain amount because you're in a workplace, and because you're working on a team, there needs to be like, some low level of respect.

Han:

Like, it.

Han:

I understand that, like, when you're a probie, like you kind of have to earn it and like, and people have to trust you.

Han:

But like she even says like in her speech, like, you know, you, you're not hazing me like a regular probe.

Han:

That's not what this is.

Han:

That's not what is happening.

Rachel:

And the, the whole introduction of like the, the old guard 118 with Gerard and Tommy and Sal and all of them is so interesting to me too because it's presented so like obviously they are bad people.

Rachel:

And it just brings me to think of the episode Awful People.

Rachel:

I think that was episode five where you know, there was a lot of kind of discussion or a lot of contemplation about what makes someone awful or like what makes someone an awful person.

Rachel:

Can they be redeemed?

Rachel:

Is there any redemption possible?

Rachel:

You know, it's kind of who's.

Rachel:

Who's to say and we'll get to it.

Rachel:

But there's a part where we get a little glimpse into one of the reasons, I guess why Gerard is an awful person.

Rachel:

And it's just kind of like is that excusable?

Rachel:

No.

Rachel:

Can it be redeemed?

Rachel:

And kind of your mileage may vary, I guess.

Han:

Subjective, I guess.

Rachel:

And then kind of the last theme that I wanted to talk about was this idea of progress and change.

Rachel:

So there's a lot again when we get to when Hen finally meets up with Athena at the bar and they're talking like these kind of like outcasts of their departments sort of thing and they talk about, you know, these are people of the old guard and we have to bring in the, the progress, bring the change, but it doesn't happen overnight.

Rachel:

So also like that patience and resiliency to keep like you know, plugging away at it and not giving up while also looking towards a better and brighter future because they have to.

Rachel:

And there's always someone that has to take the first steps and why not them?

Rachel:

But, but you have to be like very strong of character in order to withstand everything else that you have to that like comes your way.

Rachel:

So they're, they're trying to pave the way for, for people after them, which is like to have that self awareness of that is I think really impressive as well because then it's like, you know, that's got to play into so much of their like motivations and like how and why they do things.

Rachel:

That's something to probably be interesting to keep in mind for Hen and Athena and Chimney, especially since they are kind of like the PI.

Rachel:

Not a pioneer.

Han:

No, but they're the people of color.

Han:

Yeah, they're the main people of color on the show.

Han:

So I think it is really good and important that they like do address these topics.

Rachel:

Yes.

Han:

And aren't just treating it like, oh, they're in la.

Han:

And so everything is progressive and people of color and gay people and women are just accepted and highly, you know, straight, white, male dominated bases.

Rachel:

So yeah, those are, Those are some themes, huh?

Syl:

All the themes.

Han:

Who's cooking?

Rachel:

As opposed to character arcs.

Rachel:

I think it's just character.

Rachel:

Arc.

Han:

Arc.

Rachel:

It's just one.

Han:

Just one.

Rachel:

We have a couple other characters, of course, obviously, but hen just is the show.

Han:

It's the hen show.

Han:

Wait, what did you said?

Rachel:

It's the hennesode.

Han:

The hen instead of episode.

Han:

And.

Rachel:

I get that from one pun girl to another.

Han:

Yeah, that was great snaps.

Rachel:

I really love that.

Rachel:

Which is also why I wanted to tell it to you guys.

Han:

I want to point out something before I forget because it was one of the only big things that I was like, oh, I got to make sure I talk about this.

Rachel:

Well, then let's talk about it.

Han:

Is, you know, we talked about, you know, in themes how she's very.

Han:

She's very much like driven.

Han:

Is like, I see a thing I want, I.

Han:

I do the thing that I want and I don't stop until I make it happen.

Han:

Very smart, very capable, but big.

Han:

But there, there's this thing where she.

Han:

I feel like a lot of people do this in different areas, in different capacities where she does things because she thinks she's supposed to.

Han:

And we see that as a theme in general, I think, like throughout this show, but especially the season right now.

Rachel:

So I thought with Hen specifically or.

Han:

Just like other characters too.

Han:

Yeah, because I think hen doesn't.

Han:

I feel like this was like hen broke out of that and now she's.

Rachel:

Like, yeah, you know, like she learned the lesson.

Han:

That was the thing holding her back.

Han:

She found her calling.

Han:

The thing that made her feel like fulfilled.

Han:

Like she was like she was doing good.

Han:

Right.

Han:

Because that was her whole thing that she wanted to be doing good.

Rachel:

Right.

Han:

But yeah.

Han:

For how long?

Han:

How old is she?

Rachel:

Oh, we're not gonna start that.

Rachel:

I have no idea.

Han:

I know.

Han:

No, I'm just trying to like ballpark like how long she went from like, you know.

Rachel:

Right.

Han:

to:

Rachel:

Oh.

Han:

Which is like relatable.

Han:

Which is relatable because I mean, sometimes it's not even like, oh, I'm doing what I think I'm supposed to do because she was doing jobs that were like high, like high paying.

Han:

But like, sometimes it's like you're just.

Rachel:

What society told her to do.

Han:

Right.

Han:

Sometimes you're just doing things because you don't think you can do the things you want to do.

Han:

But like you don't have the ability to.

Han:

And I don't think that is a thing that Hen suffers from, I think.

Rachel:

Right.

Han:

But she knows when she's like, well, I'm just going to make it happen.

Rachel:

So I guess, like, not to go super linearly, but I think the best place to start is that client dinner where we see at the opening of the episode.

Rachel:

And like you said, when she decides something, she kind of makes it happen because she.

Rachel:

We don't see anything prior to this, obviously, but it looks like this dinner was the straw that broke the camel's back.

Rachel:

And I'm not sure that that camel could hold many straws.

Rachel:

That was a terrible metaphor.

Rachel:

But we're going to go with it.

Rachel:

Just pretend that made sense.

Rachel:

And so I'm not sure what.

Han:

I mean, I'm trying to visualize it too.

Han:

So I don't.

Rachel:

It's just like 1, 2, 3 straws instead of like a whole bale of hay.

Rachel:

Okay.

Rachel:

At least that's what I think when it's supposed to be straw anyways.

Han:

Oh my God.

Rachel:

Non mistaken.

Han:

Leaning forward.

Rachel:

Anyway, so I kind of wonder, like you were saying, how long she has been in that job and how many of these kind of client dinners.

Rachel:

Because it seems very old hat for her to just kind of like come in and join this very like dandy boys club sort of thing where again, she is stripped of her personhood.

Rachel:

Really?

Rachel:

Because they're talking about her before she even comes in to the dinner and they're like, you know, does she even like men?

Rachel:

What's her story?

Rachel:

And it's just like this is supposed to be like a professional setting, a work dinner.

Rachel:

And you're just like out here being so misogynistic.

Rachel:

And I mean, I.

Rachel:

You could say like, oh, it's:

Rachel:

But like that doesn't excuse anything.

Syl:

It's not even that.

Syl:

It's when you think about like the profession that she's in, you know, sales is like a typically.

Syl:

I like, in my opinion, I guess like typically or historically.

Syl:

I think it's like a male dominated kind of thing.

Rachel:

Oh, definitely.

Han:

The higher up positions.

Syl:

Yeah, especially the higher up positions.

Syl:

It's always male dominated.

Syl:

So like they were already they.

Syl:

I mean, yes, it's:

Syl:

or:

Syl:

2008.

Syl:

It's like:

Rachel:

Ish.

Syl:

Yeah,:

Syl:

So it's already like.

Syl:

So it's already that kind of like period.

Syl:

And then you also have period.

Syl:

It's like literally I'm talking about like.

Han:

It'S like the 50s period anyway, back in the day.

Syl:

Back in the day.

Syl:

ack in the, back in the early:

Syl:

Back in the early:

Syl:

So yeah, like it's, it's typically like male profession like that, especially the ones that succeed.

Syl:

So like Hen is.

Syl:

Even though this isn't like her dream job.

Syl:

Hen, I think was already like at a certain level.

Syl:

She was at a certain level.

Syl:

If she was, you know, attending dinners with these hot.

Syl:

I was gonna say hotshots.

Rachel:

I mean, they think they're hotshots with.

Syl:

These self proclaimed hotshots that like that whole kind of game, you know?

Syl:

So.

Rachel:

No, she really is the game.

Syl:

And the thing is, I don't want to call it like breaking.

Syl:

Is it boundaries?

Han:

Pushing or pushing the envelope?

Han:

Like, like breaking the glass ceiling?

Han:

That kind of thing?

Syl:

Yeah, that, that kind of thing.

Syl:

Like, I don't want to say that.

Han:

But like, I think in the way she does it though, kind of.

Han:

Right.

Han:

Because it's like, I feel like when you think of like successful women in a field like that, they're kind of more playing into that kind of stuff to get above.

Han:

Not to say that they're like selling themselves, but you know what I mean?

Han:

It's like they're putting up with it a certain amount.

Syl:

Yeah.

Han:

Or taking advantage of it to a certain degree to like, to climb the ladder.

Han:

And Hen's just like, no, fuck you.

Han:

If your patient needs medicine, prescribe them generic.

Han:

Like she's not, you know what I mean?

Han:

Like she's showing up, she's not fucking around, but she's still in a very successful position.

Syl:

Yeah.

Syl:

Yeah, I think that's what I was getting at.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Rachel:

Just like that.

Rachel:

It's just one of those classic like icky boss things that it's just like how, how much has she already had to put up with this kind of behavior from men in positions higher than hers who think she's a nothing for all of those reasons that we talked about in themes.

Rachel:

And she still like has compassion for the people that they're trying to serve, whereas these idiots, let's just say, are more interested in the bottom line and what's in it for them.

Rachel:

And like kickbacks, like, they're talking, they, they talked about like kickbacks like Golf and Lakers ticket.

Rachel:

And it's just like, ew, sorry, I lost my train of thought a little bit there.

Rachel:

Like, first of all, ew.

Rachel:

Yeah, but so she has to, like, she has to play the game a little bit because she's all like, you know, it's my job knowing what you like.

Rachel:

Because she's in sales, so you have to kind of like sell to the person or the people, like, know your audience.

Rachel:

Yeah, but she's still, you know.

Rachel:

Okay, this is what.

Rachel:

This is what I was trying to say.

Rachel:

In.

Rachel:

In like an environment like this where it's very, you know, high corporate, you can lose a little bit of the soul of, like, why you're doing what you're doing.

Rachel:

But she hasn't lost that.

Rachel:

Even her boss says, like, you know, you have a big warm heart, which is unusual for a pharma rep, which is like, it shows.

Han:

I think that was a.

Han:

I think that was a doctor, like a client.

Han:

I don't think that was her boss.

Rachel:

Oh, well, one of them.

Rachel:

So I think that really, like, shows from the get go how still in tuned with.

Rachel:

With her compassion she is because she hasn't kind of like lost her soul in this.

Rachel:

In this sales job.

Rachel:

And it's just like, yeah, who wants to be in that kind of environment?

Rachel:

You can only take it for so long.

Rachel:

She has to be, you know, true.

Rachel:

I.

Rachel:

I think.

Rachel:

I think the whole thing is like her being true to who she is.

Rachel:

And that was not her.

Rachel:

And she was just kind of like going through the motions.

Rachel:

Not.

Rachel:

Which isn't to say that she wasn't good at it, because she was very good.

Rachel:

That's why she was speaking with all of those high powered clients.

Rachel:

But it just didn't serve her anything because it was.

Rachel:

She hadn't lost her soul yet, but she was like.

Rachel:

You could see she was kind of like dying inside a lot.

Syl:

Mm.

Rachel:

And.

Rachel:

And then he, like, came, like when they were waiting for the car.

Rachel:

He, like, came on to her after all of that.

Rachel:

And it's just like such so weird.

Syl:

Men in these positions.

Rachel:

So it was also kind of like, read the room.

Han:

Also super creepy for your boss to be like, we're trying, like, what was that?

Han:

We're trying to, like, build relationships with these people.

Han:

And she's like, uh huh.

Han:

We're selling pharmaceuticals.

Han:

Not me.

Han:

Like, the fact that she has to say that.

Han:

Yeah, gross.

Rachel:

Like, Pen has morals and they didn't have any.

Han:

Yeah, this is.

Han:

This is pre.

Han:

Me too movement.

Han:

This is like.

Han:

I mean, think about it, like the MeToo movement was like, it's 10 years later, right?

Han:

It's like when this show is happening now, like, current.

Han:

Current times in that season.

Han:

Right?

Han:

Yeah, so.

Rachel:

So this is very, like, of the moment.

Han:

So, yeah, she.

Han:

She was putting up with a lot of shit, and she didn't really feel like she was helping people, which is the whole reason she, like, was trying to stick with that job, other than, like, because she thought it was, like, what she was supposed to do.

Han:

I'm assuming because it's like, you know, a steady, successful job, but also, like.

Rachel:

Doing, like, helping from the inside sort of thing is probably how.

Rachel:

Yeah, she thought of it as well, which, like, does make sense because sometimes you have to, like, you know, if you can't beat them, join them sort of thing, and making, like, making that change and that progress from the inside out sort of thing.

Rachel:

But they too stuck in their ways to do anything useful.

Han:

Hen rage.

Han:

Well, she just doesn't even rage quit.

Han:

It's.

Han:

She's very much like, you know, she has this realization of, like, yeah, I'm not.

Han:

I'm not making a difference here.

Han:

Like, I thought I could.

Han:

And fuck, literally everything just happened.

Han:

And, like, we've, you know, like Rachel said, like, there must have been so much of this happening, and this was just like the boiling point.

Han:

So she quits her job and, oh, my God, the boss says, like, oh, I've never seen someone just set their life on fire.

Han:

There were so many just, like, random lines about fire before she decides to become a firefighter.

Rachel:

Like, the universe is screaming at her.

Han:

Mm.

Han:

So then she goes to therapy to take a job assessment, which I think is hilarious because you can do that shit on the Internet, but sure, pay someone.

Rachel:

I mean, she probably had some nice savings from her high, high powered corporate job.

Han:

I don't know, the job she just quit.

Han:

She probably doesn't have health insurance anymore anyway, her therapist calls her out for not answering truthfully.

Han:

And that's when we get, you know, the insight of hen being like, I do kind of always just with my job, you know, just do what I think I should be doing.

Han:

And then God almost kills her therapist so that she can realize what she should do with her life.

Syl:

So in that scene, right, I think her therapist asks her, oh, her name is Stacy.

Syl:

So Stacy asks her, what do you hate the most?

Syl:

Or something like that.

Rachel:

Such a great question.

Syl:

And she's like, bullies.

Syl:

And immediately my brain was like, steve.

Rachel:

Rogers, is that you?

Han:

Close enough.

Han:

Welcome back, Steve Rogers.

Rachel:

Close enough.

Syl:

No, but okay.

Syl:

I mean, I'm kind of going to derail a little bit.

Syl:

So.

Syl:

Well, not derail.

Syl:

It's still in the same.

Syl:

I'm still talking about the episode.

Syl:

But like, because, you know, you.

Syl:

I think Rachel, you mentioned, or both of you mentioned how like this episode is very like formatted like the hero's journey and whatever.

Syl:

But I mean, it's also for like, I mean.

Syl:

And yeah, okay, the hero's journey, Captain America, the first Avenger, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Syl:

Yes, it's the.

Han:

We all know.

Han:

We all know it.

Syl:

It's the hero's journey.

Syl:

But I'm saying.

Syl:

But I guess like just the elements.

Syl:

Oh, so you have his line or hen also say.

Syl:

I don't like bullies.

Syl:

There's that.

Syl:

Then there's like going through the basic training of, you know, all of that defying orders also.

Syl:

Oh, big speeches.

Syl:

And then getting the respect of your.

Syl:

Of your peers at the end of the day.

Syl:

Because I think.

Syl:

I think Steve also has gone.

Syl:

That's why.

Syl:

I mean, it's very reminiscent of the first Avenger.

Syl:

It's just like I'm watching.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Syl:

Just.

Syl:

It's hen though.

Syl:

Yay.

Syl:

Anyway, I don't know why the yay, but I mean.

Han:

Yeah, no, that's a great comparison.

Rachel:

Have you not seen all of my Captain America funko pops behind me and every single episode?

Han:

You probably can't see mine because I don't have like, I have a bunch.

Rachel:

But yeah, my Captain America shield over in the corner that you probably won't be able to see in social media, but you can see on the YouTube one.

Syl:

Yeah.

Syl:

Hey, guys, everybody watch the YouTubes.

Syl:

You get to see our setups a lot better, just FYI.

Han:

You get to see our nerdy.

Han:

Nerdy rooms.

Rachel:

Nerd dumb.

Han:

And our nerdy faces.

Syl:

You get to see the pulverine next to each other.

Syl:

Then you get to see the steep Tony next to each other.

Han:

Yeah.

Syl:

Some spider man.

Syl:

Some space.

Rachel:

We're all very big Marvel fans, if you couldn't tell already.

Rachel:

So, like, where there is superhero stuff, we are going to pick up on that.

Han:

It's how we met.

Han:

Well, you guys.

Han:

Did you guys meet through Supernatural?

Han:

Yes, Supernatural.

Han:

Okay.

Han:

They met through Supernatural.

Han:

The three of us.

Han:

Wait, I can't remember if Syl and I followed.

Han:

I can't remember if I followed you guys before.

Syl:

No, I.

Syl:

I think you and I.

Han:

Were mutual each other, Lauren.

Syl:

Yeah.

Han:

Not me.

Han:

Yeah.

Syl:

And then.

Syl:

No, but I think I followed you after end game.

Han:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Rachel:

After.

Han:

And then I decided you were going to be my friend.

Syl:

Yeah.

Han:

And I made that happen?

Syl:

Yeah.

Syl:

Yeah.

Syl:

And then I dragged you to meet Rachel.

Rachel:

Yes.

Syl:

And then we were supposed to go to that faded Boston Comic Con.

Han:

Speaking.

Han:

Speaking of Steve Rogers, we were supposed to meet him, and then.

Han:

Yeah, in March:

Han:

Nothing big happened then, so of course, that convention totally happened.

Han:

And there's totally photo ops of all three of us together with him.

Han:

See them.

Han:

See them behind me on the wall.

Rachel:

In one of, you know, the branch realities.

Rachel:

We would have met all of them.

Han:

And yeah, we're big Marvel people, so, you know, obviously we make Disney references a lot, but, like, whenever there can be a Marvel reference, especially one as good as this one, because I feel like I could do 30 minutes about.

Rachel:

Oh, wait, can we.

Han:

Steve Rogers and Henrietta Wilson.

Syl:

It's funny because.

Syl:

Okay, wait, the typing.

Han:

She's making a note for a Minnesota Violent.

Syl:

Okay.

Syl:

No, but it's funny because, like, I think in.

Syl:

In 911 fandom.

Syl:

Okay, now.

Syl:

Now I'm definitely do, like, going off topic.

Rachel:

It's okay.

Rachel:

I'll get it back.

Syl:

I think, like, in fandom, 91 1, I think we've said that Eddie is more like Steve Rogers in a way, but I think Eddie is more just the moniker.

Syl:

So like, just Captain America.

Syl:

You know what I mean?

Syl:

Instead of specifically symbol.

Han:

Just the symbol, not the person.

Han:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Rachel:

He is the shield hen.

Rachel:

Is more Steve Rogers the person.

Rachel:

And those are also.

Rachel:

Could go into that for long.

Han:

Oh, my God.

Rachel:

Those are very different.

Han:

Put in the minute.

Han:

Put in.

Han:

Put in Minnesota ideas I did assigning Marvel characters for.

Han:

Oh, that's going to be Fun for the 118.

Han:

And we could do.

Han:

We can do two different versions.

Han:

We can do the hero and then, like, the person.

Syl:

Ooh, okay.

Han:

I think that'd be so much fun.

Syl:

Yes.

Han:

As soon as you were like, oh, it reminds me of the.

Han:

I don't know why I didn't think.

Han:

I know why, because I wasn't paying fully attention.

Han:

Because it's like the way that she.

Syl:

Says it was just like, I'm literally listening to fucking skinny Steve saying, I don't like police.

Han:

Literally.

Han:

And it's basically like if we had started her story where she decides to become a firefighter, and she's having that conversation with.

Han:

With Eva Ava.

Han:

I can't believe I'm back here trying to figure out how the fuck to say her name.

Rachel:

I know so many different ways, but.

Han:

If we had started the story where she was, like, in the kitchen, like, talking about doing that, it would be like, kind of beat for beat.

Rachel:

Yeah, right.

Han:

Because we start In Captain America and the First Avenger.

Han:

Like, he's already decided that he wants to be like, he wants to fight in the war.

Han:

He wants to be a soldier because that's.

Rachel:

And everyone just keeps telling him no.

Rachel:

And he also has this like, loss of personhood because people just don't think that he's capable of doing anything.

Rachel:

So he's just like, disregarded and thrown to the side, much like hen is.

Rachel:

Even when she, like, shows that she is a good worker and diligent and everything like that, she's still just kind of like, well, you don't, you don't mean anything.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Rachel:

Oh, I would love.

Rachel:

We need to do this.

Han:

I would love to do a minisode.

Han:

Yeah, that's great.

Han:

Oh, it's great.

Rachel:

It's fascinating.

Han:

Back on, back on topic.

Syl:

Did we really leave, though?

Han:

No, we didn't.

Han:

Super leave.

Han:

Just a tiny bit.

Han:

So, yeah, she decides, she realizes her calling and she goes home to her partner who is not basically kind of treats it like a joke.

Han:

Remind you of anything else happening recently?

Han:

Kind of treats it like she's not being serious about it.

Han:

And like, they have a very long conversation and at the end she's finally like, are you serious about this?

Han:

You know, telling her that it's going to be hard, that it's like, oh, it's a boys club, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Rachel:

And I'm like, you don't think Ken has already thought that through?

Rachel:

Come on.

Rachel:

Right, right.

Han:

But also, what was she in already?

Han:

She was already in a position where she was putting up.

Han:

At least she isn't getting sexually harassed as a firefighter.

Han:

Yeah, that we see.

Han:

You know what I mean?

Han:

Like, it's a different kind of demeaning.

Syl:

But I mean, there were comments.

Syl:

I mean, Gerard makes like some comments like on her appearance.

Han:

He does say the pretty thing.

Han:

Yeah.

Rachel:

I mean, yeah, it's.

Rachel:

It's so like dismissive of Ava and she says something like, passions are for rich people.

Rachel:

And then.

Han:

Right.

Rachel:

And it's just kind of.

Rachel:

It's just so dismissive, so not supportive, which is like, again, like this whole scene is very interesting as well because we see Ava, Hen and Eva as they were before everything went to shit.

Han:

To shit.

Rachel:

So it's interesting to see like that dynamic there and how maybe like.

Rachel:

And we have to fill in a lot of gaps in the.

Rachel:

In between, like how it got from the point in hen begins to where we see in Full Moon, crazy af, here we see another example of a romantic partner not having their person's back when all they want and all they're asking for is just like support.

Rachel:

And Ava's not able to give that.

Rachel:

And it's not that hen doesn't acknowledge and realize that like she is really just trading in for one boys club for another.

Rachel:

But it's.

Han:

No, it's going to be hard and.

Rachel:

It'S going to be hard.

Rachel:

But she's, it doesn't seem like she's willing to back down from any hard work because she obviously has had worked her way up like the corporate ladder in her pharmaceutical job.

Rachel:

She's not shying away from hard work.

Rachel:

But this means so much to her because she feels like it's fulfilling this greater purpose that she had and that she's actually going to be doing more good in person and actually hands on with the people that she was trying to help in the first place in that pharmaceutical job.

Rachel:

So it's like, it's.

Rachel:

I think in her mind she's pretty much doing the same thing which is serving people who need help.

Rachel:

The methodology and of how she's able to provide that support is drastic.

Rachel:

Very different, but like, you know, lowest common denominator.

Rachel:

It's kind of the same thing.

Rachel:

It just is in a different way, shape and form.

Rachel:

And Ava is just like this is.

Rachel:

She's basically saying that's a stupid idea.

Rachel:

Even though, you know, if you're hen's partner you would know that she's gonna, she's got like, you know, stick to itness and, and she's gonna do it anyway.

Rachel:

So like just be supportive.

Rachel:

I don't.

Han:

Well, I think maybe, you know, reading between the lines here because we don't have a lot to go off of.

Han:

But to me the way she said passion is for rich people.

Han:

Is that what she said?

Rachel:

Yeah.

Rachel:

Her passions are for rich people.

Han:

Said to me that not only was she concerned, to me it was like her real concern wasn't that, oh, you're going to be in a place where you're going to be discriminated against.

Han:

Because she's discriminated against.

Han:

Yeah, all the time, everywhere, especially at her job now.

Rachel:

But it kind of was more about.

Han:

Like the money because think about that sale like that income cut from being a pharmaceutical sales rep to being a paramedic.

Rachel:

Oh, I forgot about that.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Han:

So.

Rachel:

Oh yeah.

Han:

I don't know, it just felt icky.

Han:

So it's like we're kind of shown them and like she seems supportive.

Han:

Ish.

Han:

But like it took her a while to get there in that conversation and I don't know, just the way she just, like, dismissed her passions, was more concerned about money than what hen cares about.

Han:

Like, you know, those are all red.

Rachel:

Flags, like, the material as opposed to.

Han:

Yep, yep.

Rachel:

So that's interesting.

Rachel:

Is that the last, like, flashback we really see of Ava or.

Han:

I think so.

Rachel:

I can't remember.

Han:

I think so.

Han:

Like, I think she's mentioned or, like, know if we see her again, like.

Rachel:

The only bit that we see of them actually in their relationship as opposed to the after, I think.

Han:

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Rachel:

So, I mean, that's very telling too.

Han:

Yeah.

Han:

But I don't know.

Han:

I think it also just specifically icked me out as someone who was in kind of a.

Han:

Not a similar situation because I wasn't in a.

Han:

In a place that, like, I was getting skeeved on like that, but I was in a place where, like, I was going back to school for something that would have made me a lot of money but would have made me fucking miserable.

Han:

And I realized, like, I had a.

Han:

A little bit of a mentee bee about it when I realized, like, how.

Han:

How much I'd be giving up of, like, myself and my passion and, like, you know, how I work as a person to try and do that job.

Han:

And my partner supported me and not only was just like, it's okay to, like, not do that, like, helped me think about what I was passionate about and, like, you know, encouraged me to, like, change.

Han:

Change things, even though it was going to be harder, cost more money, like, you know, intimidating.

Han:

But, like, that's the kind of support you should be getting from a partner.

Han:

Not like, you show up and they're like, passion is for rich people.

Rachel:

Are you sure you want to do this?

Han:

Are you sure you want to work in a straight, white, male dominated field?

Han:

That's all the fields.

Rachel:

Pick and choose.

Rachel:

That's gonna be what you get.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Rachel:

And any.

Rachel:

Pretty much anywhere.

Han:

Yeah.

Rachel:

Oof.

Rachel:

I'm glad.

Rachel:

I'm glad you had the support you needed.

Han:

Me too.

Rachel:

That's also one of the reasons why.

Han:

We'Re doing this right now.

Han:

Back to school for Media Communications, man.

Han:

I was gonna do pr.

Rachel:

Okay, So, I mean, this isn't a far cry.

Rachel:

It's like, definitely related.

Rachel:

I.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Han:

But I was like, I can't.

Han:

I can't, like, do things that are against my own beliefs to make money, which I would have had to do.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Rachel:

That's a good reason to not do it.

Han:

Yeah.

Rachel:

So.

Rachel:

Oh, you had your little, like, hen begins moment too.

Rachel:

Hand begins.

Han:

Hand begins.

Han:

Glad she has.

Han:

I was just going to say, like, not related to this, but it's just.

Han:

I'm just so glad she has Karen.

Han:

Anyway.

Rachel:

Oh, love Karen so much.

Rachel:

I can't wait for us to get to, like, more Karen and the rewatches because we're kind of so done with hen.

Rachel:

And Ava, like, please just give us our hen wren so we can just adore them.

Syl:

I just wanted to transition us.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Han:

Yes.

Syl:

From kitchen to.

Syl:

I mean.

Syl:

Oh, yeah.

Rachel:

And they had that talk in the kitchen, so.

Han:

Kitchen talks.

Rachel:

Heart to heart in the kitchen.

Rachel:

Sorry.

Syl:

That's what I mean.

Syl:

So let's get in.

Syl:

Into hen at the.

Syl:

Hen at the 1.

Han:

Weird to call it that without Bobby at the helm, but.

Han:

Yeah.

Han:

The 118.

Rachel:

It's not our 118.

Rachel:

It's the old 118.

Rachel:

It's the old 118.

Han:

Not my 118.

Rachel:

Not my 118.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Syl:

Not my captain.

Rachel:

Hashtag, not my captain.

Syl:

Oh, my God.

Han:

Yeah.

Han:

So she fights her way through that.

Han:

We get that montage of her, you know, doing all of the work to become a paramedic firefighter, and she works her ass off, and she passes with, I'm assuming, flying colors.

Rachel:

Wasn't she, like, at the top of, like, at the top of her class somewhere in there?

Rachel:

I'm.

Rachel:

Or I'm just assuming that.

Rachel:

Because that's who she is.

Han:

I'm just assuming that.

Han:

I don't know if we're shown that, but yeah.

Han:

So she shows up.

Han:

She's so excited.

Han:

She's just, like, in awe.

Han:

Kind of like how I felt the first time I walked into Wizarding World.

Syl:

That's how she is.

Han:

Walking to the wedding, looking at the fire trucks and.

Han:

Yeah.

Rachel:

It's like a magical world.

Han:

Yeah.

Han:

And then immediately, just like they always do, a man ruins it.

Syl:

Multiple men, too.

Han:

So many men.

Rachel:

They'd be doing that.

Han:

They do be doing that.

Syl:

I don't even remember.

Syl:

Sorry, I'm.

Syl:

I was just going to say I don't even remember how they.

Syl:

How they greet her.

Syl:

But, like, they're just like, what?

Syl:

On the loft?

Syl:

And they, like, look at her and they're like, come.

Syl:

I mean, I think Gerard is just like, come, everyone, meet your new diversity hire.

Syl:

Diversity hire.

Rachel:

Mm.

Syl:

Instant red flags for me, for anybody.

Rachel:

With eyes, but just quickly.

Syl:

I mean, but I guess that's.

Syl:

That was his way.

Syl:

Immediately.

Syl:

Okay, I need to get rid of her.

Syl:

I'm gonna be.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Syl:

Without getting rid of the diversity.

Han:

Higher.

Syl:

Because that's, you know.

Rachel:

Oh, yeah.

Rachel:

No, so that's a great point.

Rachel:

Because when they come in or when Hen comes in and she's greeted by, like you said, everybody on the loft.

Rachel:

That second story, which, I mean, is just part of the set anyways.

Rachel:

But, like, what a way to visually show, like, the different levels looking down on her.

Rachel:

Exactly.

Rachel:

They are looking down on her from on high.

Rachel:

They all think very highly of themselves.

Rachel:

It's a lot of.

Rachel:

And here she is just like this.

Rachel:

You know, from their perspective, they're looking down and she looks very small, which is how they treat her.

Rachel:

And she.

Rachel:

She knows that that's just perspective.

Rachel:

You know, there is no difference between.

Rachel:

Between them.

Rachel:

However, that's not how the rest of the 118 sees it.

Rachel:

And so they're just like, it's.

Rachel:

It's a very quick.

Rachel:

Again, with these.

Rachel:

With these 911 introductions.

Rachel:

It's a very quick show versus tell, and, like, that combination thereof of, you know, these are who this is, who this character is.

Rachel:

These are what they kind of stand for.

Rachel:

And you're getting clued in right off the bat.

Rachel:

So they are literally looking down on her from on high with their egos and everything.

Rachel:

And it just, like, you know, you see her, like, little hopeful, like, bright eye, bushy tail sort of thing, get crushed real fast, which is awful.

Rachel:

And she's like, yep, this is disappointed, but not surprised.

Han:

Yep.

Rachel:

But we do, however, see Chimney.

Rachel:

And even though it is.

Rachel:

It is kind of interesting with that as well, because he is on the loft with the rest of them, but he is so much more friendly than everyone else and, like, actually makes an effort to, you know, welcome her.

Han:

He wants to be her friend so bad.

Rachel:

Right.

Rachel:

But he's still kind of, like, aligned himself with, you know, the herd at this point.

Rachel:

And I think as we watch even more of this episode, but very much it's very clear in Chimney Beacons, it's a form of, like, survival mode for him.

Rachel:

So he kind of, like, has to, you know, run with the pack for a little bit, even though it's obvious that he is standing out amongst the crowd and making an effort, but he is still at that point, like, up there with the rest of them.

Syl:

What I wanted to briefly, like, talk about was, like, how she also says to him that, yeah, you may be.

Syl:

You are a person of, like, Chimney is a person of color, but he.

Syl:

He also.

Syl:

He doesn't have to jump through the hurdles as she does, like, as hard as she does or, like, get through all of those obstacles.

Syl:

Like, she has to work twice, triple, quadruple times as hard to get where she wants to be.

Syl:

And he benefits off of.

Syl:

I forgot what she said.

Syl:

Exactly.

Syl:

But I know, like, that he benefits off of that.

Rachel:

It's the patriarchy, basically.

Han:

Yeah, he benefits from that system.

Han:

You know, like, yes, he experiences.

Han:

He experiences prejudice, but he also will never experience it in the way that she does as.

Han:

As a woman of color who is also queer.

Han:

Like, she's hitting all those things.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Han:

But yeah, she's basically just saying, like, you.

Han:

You have privilege still as.

Han:

As a male.

Han:

Like, even though, like, we can relate to a certain amount, like, you don't actually understand fully what this is like.

Rachel:

Talking about how Hen, you know, calls Chimney out for benefiting from the system as well, even though he is a person of color.

Rachel:

I think that was a very important thing for them to point out as well, because it just rings true.

Rachel:

And how, like, you know, I think we.

Rachel:

We do see that chimney is trying to, you know, develop a camaraderie with hen.

Rachel:

Like a.

Rachel:

We're in this together.

Rachel:

I think he says, like, we're in this together sort of thing at one.

Han:

Point, which, like, you're not alone.

Han:

He's like, you're not in this alone.

Han:

I think is how he words it.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Rachel:

Which goes into the loneliness thing.

Rachel:

So it's obvious, like, how lonely he's been and he's really looking for someone else to kind of have his back.

Rachel:

Even though Hen at the beginning is still, like, very, like, unsure and kind of closed off to it because, I mean, to her, Chimney is still part of the.

Rachel:

That system.

Han:

So I feel like she's slow to trust people and more to people in general, probably.

Han:

So whereas chimney sees a friend shaped person and don't know what that's like.

Rachel:

Me with everybody I see.

Han:

Friend.

Rachel:

Friend.

Rachel:

Are you my friend?

Rachel:

The answer in my head is always yes.

Syl:

I wish I could do that.

Syl:

I can't.

Han:

I'm good.

Rachel:

Listen, like, like, to me, anybody who interacts with me on, like, social media.

Han:

I'm like, talk to you forever.

Rachel:

You're my friend now.

Rachel:

I mean, that's.

Han:

That's different.

Han:

That's like an.

Han:

Like, we're mutuals.

Han:

We're fandom friends.

Rachel:

No, anybody who.

Rachel:

Anybody who interacts with me, I'm like, we're friends now.

Syl:

Well, listen, it's.

Syl:

It sucks to have, like, okay, off topic, but it sucks to have the resting bitch face.

Syl:

And you actually want to be someone's friend, but they're scared of you.

Rachel:

I don't think you're scary.

Han:

Do people.

Syl:

People call you intimidating.

Han:

Do you get that?

Rachel:

I get that too.

Rachel:

I'm so Sorry.

Han:

I'm literally just a loser.

Han:

Like, why am I intimidating?

Rachel:

No negative self talk.

Han:

That's not a negative thing.

Han:

I'm just saying, like, I'm literally just a fucking nerd.

Han:

Like, why am I intimidating?

Han:

And it's.

Han:

It's just the resting bitch face and just the general aura of, like, stay.

Syl:

The fuck away from me.

Han:

Yeah.

Syl:

But sometimes I'm like, I don't want you to stay away.

Syl:

Please come talk to me.

Syl:

Yeah.

Rachel:

I'm so glad I ignored all of that.

Rachel:

Or I didn't even ignore it.

Rachel:

I just didn't see it.

Syl:

I think you just didn't see it.

Rachel:

I was just like, we're friends now.

Rachel:

That is Phil and I became friends.

Syl:

Because it was instant, too.

Han:

Yeah.

Syl:

It was just us yapping at each other.

Syl:

It was great.

Syl:

Anyway.

Rachel:

Wow, how times have changed.

Rachel:

This is like, seven years ago.

Syl:

It was 8.

Syl:

8.

Rachel:

8 in November.

Han:

That's crazy.

Rachel:

Wow, that's so long.

Han:

That's what I did for Sil, too.

Han:

I don't think there was, like, an energy that I was ignoring.

Syl:

I was just like, well, you didn't see me.

Syl:

You didn't see my face.

Han:

Well, sure.

Han:

But I was like, I will collect this one.

Han:

And then I just made it happen.

Han:

I just talked to you constantly.

Rachel:

Got to catch them all.

Han:

Yeah.

Han:

I'm a sneak attack where it's just like, I make you tolerate me, and then one day you wake up and you're like, how am I talking to this person every day?

Han:

How did I get here?

Han:

I don't remember.

Han:

I blacked out.

Syl:

I'm not gonna lie.

Rachel:

You don't remember?

Rachel:

No.

Syl:

Well, yeah, but it's kind of like, yeah, how did I get here?

Han:

It's because I wanted to be your friend and I made.

Syl:

But, like, I mean, in general, there are some people.

Syl:

I'm just like, how did I get here?

Syl:

But I do know how we got there.

Syl:

It's just kind of like, how did I.

Syl:

How did I continue yapping?

Syl:

Because I'm not a yapper.

Syl:

But I am a yapper.

Han:

But you're a yapper with the right people.

Han:

That's how I am.

Han:

I'm pretty much like, no talk or won't shut the fuck up.

Han:

Like, those are my.

Han:

The dial only has two settings.

Syl:

Anyway.

Han:

Anyway.

Syl:

Chimney.

Syl:

Collecting.

Syl:

Chimney.

Syl:

C.

Syl:

Friend shape.

Han:

Chimney.

Han:

Chimney is Rachel shaped.

Han:

And hen is true.

Rachel:

Still shaped.

Han:

Oh, I'm somewhere in between there.

Rachel:

That's so cute.

Han:

You saw still and you were like, that person's cool.

Han:

I want them to be my friend.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Rachel:

On, like, Tumblr.

Rachel:

I was like, oh, you're cool.

Han:

That's what chimney did.

Han:

He was like, this person's cool.

Han:

You're gonna be my friend.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Syl:

Cool.

Syl:

Where exactly is the cool in the room with us?

Syl:

All I see is loser.

Rachel:

Loser or totally lying.

Rachel:

I'm sorry.

Rachel:

No.

Rachel:

But I can't hear that word any other way now.

Rachel:

Oh, Agatha again.

Rachel:

We are big Marvel people.

Han:

You're not watching.

Han:

Agatha.

Rachel:

What are you doing?

Han:

What are you doing?

Syl:

What are you doing?

Rachel:

It's so good.

Han:

It is for the girls, gays and they's.

Han:

And specifically people who are all three of those things.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Han:

Two or three of those things.

Han:

Yeah.

Han:

Watch it.

Rachel:

All of the above.

Han:

Anyway, Chimney.

Syl:

See friendship person there.

Han:

Yes.

Han:

But, yeah, you know, she obviously does warm up to him by the end of this episode.

Han:

And I think it's hilarious that the thing that, like, finally, I think, cinched it for her was that he fucking pranked her, making her think that she was gonna get fired.

Han:

And that's the thing that made her go, oh, yeah, we're friends now.

Rachel:

Like, yeah, I.

Rachel:

And.

Rachel:

And I think.

Rachel:

Okay, if.

Rachel:

If I can expound on that just a little bit, because that is so funny.

Rachel:

I think it's something about.

Rachel:

She recognizes that he didn't, like, first of all, thought enough about her to be like, hey, this is going to be funny.

Rachel:

And also, you know, it could.

Rachel:

It could go, like, sideways for certain people.

Rachel:

But I think she recognizes that he, like, it comes from, like, this.

Rachel:

This friendly nature and friendly corner, but also playful.

Rachel:

A little bit of respect.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Rachel:

Because before that point, he was just trying, like, really, really hard to be her friend and to be nice and be nice.

Rachel:

And he was actually following her lead on a couple of these calls.

Rachel:

So I think that worked to kind of, like, prove himself to her.

Han:

That definitely helped to, like, break down some of the walls.

Rachel:

So I think then, you know, with that context, him being able to, like, prank her, she was like, you know what?

Rachel:

I kind of respect it.

Rachel:

Because you weren't afraid of, like, hurting my feelings about it or anything like that?

Rachel:

Not.

Rachel:

Or not, like, hurting my feelings.

Rachel:

No.

Han:

But I think that he, like, understood her.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Han:

And her sense of humor by that point, because it's absolutely something she would do to someone too.

Han:

Like, it's.

Han:

I don't know.

Han:

It was just like, recognizing being like, yeah, well done.

Han:

We're friends now.

Han:

You did it.

Han:

Good job.

Rachel:

Like, they have an inside joke now.

Rachel:

So bonding.

Han:

Yeah.

Han:

And I love that we get to see the beginning of Hen and Athena's friendship.

Rachel:

Yes.

Han:

And how Athena is just immediately, like, collects her.

Rachel:

Mm.

Han:

It's like, I tell you, it gets better, but it doesn't.

Han:

So we're gonna go drink and talk about it.

Han:

And I love that Athena has, you know, a support group specifically for, you know, people of minorities in a field that's dominated by straight white males.

Han:

So.

Han:

And just no questions, knowing pretty much nothing about Han, invites her in.

Rachel:

Also, at that call with the mudslide, which I'm sure we're going to get into in a little bit, I think Athena recognizes something of herself in seeing Hen among all of the other dudes with the 118.

Rachel:

And kind of like, it takes one to no one sort of thing, because Athena has been there.

Rachel:

She's been there for a long time, and she's had to go through, like, everything that Hen is going through.

Rachel:

Not part of, like, the queer community, but, like, female.

Han:

The story that she shared about her first partner, about how he said that really disgusting thing about, like, you know, I'm not even gonna repeat it.

Han:

It was disgusting.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Han:

That was just, like, a direct parallel to the shit that we saw Hen experiencing at the beginning of the episode.

Han:

So it's like she, you know, automatically understands on a level that other people aren't gonna get even.

Rachel:

Exactly.

Han:

Even Chimney.

Rachel:

And I think as much as Hen is, like, reticent to warm up to some people, I think she's more able to identify with that with, like, through Athena, which is why she even takes her up on the offer.

Rachel:

And this is kind of like the first.

Rachel:

The first, like, brick from her walls coming down, that.

Rachel:

That also, I think, helps pave the way for her to develop a friendship with Chimney, too.

Rachel:

And it's Hen finally kind of realizing or by Hen accepting the invitation to meet Athena and the other folks at.

Rachel:

At the bar, Shen is admitting to herself a little bit that as much as she wants to kind of, like, lone wolf, it, go it alone, be strong, independent woman.

Rachel:

You can't do it alone without the support of others, and especially, you know, people who have been in the same shoes as you.

Rachel:

So I think that's what kind of thaws her a little bit in.

Rachel:

In these kind of situations to.

Rachel:

To recognize, like, I do.

Rachel:

I do need people to lean on, because if she just kept doing that, doing everything she was doing at the 118, you know, just standing on her own, it was gonna break her, and she didn't.

Rachel:

And she loves the job, so she realized, you know, something has to give.

Han:

Support of people who get it and people who will remind you, you know, when things are especially atrocious, like why you're doing what you're doing and even though that it's incredibly hard and you shouldn't be having to do it, like recognizing that, like, you know, you're so much further where you are currently in.

Han:

In the world and in your job, but because of people like you who came before you, who, you know.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Han:

Pushed.

Han:

Why do I keep wanting to say boundaries?

Han:

I know Syl did too, earlier.

Rachel:

I mean, push the boundaries of the system.

Han:

I think progressing.

Han:

Progressing thing is like the closest that I'm going to get progression.

Han:

Making change happen.

Han:

While I wish words were easier.

Han:

But yeah, being with people, with the girlies who get it, who are going to let you bitch and then also lift you up too.

Han:

To remind.

Rachel:

To remind each other is important, right?

Han:

To remind each other why you're doing it.

Han:

And then also I think it's great that she.

Han:

I can't remember the gay guy's name.

Rachel:

Casey.

Han:

Casey.

Han:

Thank you.

Rachel:

The gay firefighter from the One Firefighter is his title.

Han:

Yeah.

Han:

So hope he has business cards.

Rachel:

That would be awesome.

Han:

But when he says, like when he's telling his little TL doctor of his story and he's like, his partner was like, you should quit, basically.

Han:

So he got a new partner.

Han:

And I think that kind of thing is important for hen to hear too, where it's like, if you're not going to have a partner who's going to be supportive and understanding of what you're going through and like encourage you to stick with it because that's what you want to do, then you need a new partner.

Han:

So, you know, I think that's a great point.

Han:

So I think we see her like, you know, just overall it's like, obviously it's this journey of her becoming a firefighter and that's like the big picture.

Han:

But I think the.

Han:

The more micro picture is, is her going from someone who had a support system that we see of one of just her partner who's not super supportive to expanding that to Chimney and Athena and then these two other people who.

Rachel:

We never really see again.

Han:

Support group who we never really see again.

Han:

But I'm assuming, you know what I mean, that they're still part of her support system, but if not, they're not super close.

Han:

So we're seeing her open up not only, you know, her career path and following her passions, but opening up like herself to other people and expanding her support system so that she's not alone in what she's doing.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Rachel:

And you make a Great point, too, about, you know, maybe what Casey says opens her eyes to, you know, you have to fight tooth and nail to get to where you want to be in.

Rachel:

In your professional life.

Rachel:

Why are you going to put up with that at your.

Rachel:

In your home life?

Rachel:

And you're.

Rachel:

You're fighting.

Rachel:

Then you're fighting a war on two fronts, pretty much.

Rachel:

And it's just like, that's not worth it.

Rachel:

You have to.

Rachel:

Because then, like, you'd be spread so thin that neither is going to be worth it to you anymore.

Rachel:

So you might as well just, you know, what do you.

Rachel:

What do you value?

Rachel:

Right.

Han:

Mm.

Rachel:

That's a.

Rachel:

That's very smart.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Rachel:

So she kind of, like, lets her hair down in a more metaphorical way than she does during the.

Rachel:

The mon.

Rachel:

The training montage where.

Rachel:

Where she burns the wig.

Rachel:

Where she burns the wig.

Rachel:

But I did.

Rachel:

I did just to, like, go back to that for a quick second.

Rachel:

I.

Rachel:

I did love, like, the symbolic nature of that because, like, the wig that she was wearing for, like, her pharmaceutical job is very much, like, not her.

Rachel:

Right.

Rachel:

And by removing that, you know, I'm sure we could delve into, like, the actual symbolism of, you know, women and hair, especially women of color and hair and all of that.

Han:

Black women, especially in hair.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Han:

Like, in the workplace.

Rachel:

I'm not equipped to speak on that, but, like, just acknowledging that it is.

Han:

That that is a very complicated relationship.

Rachel:

Complicated and with a lot of rich conversation to bring up with the people who can speak on that.

Rachel:

So to, like, divest herself of something that is so not her, which is also kind of like, you know, something that you can take on and take off, like a facade, like a mask.

Han:

Well, yeah, I saw.

Han:

I saw it as one of those things where.

Han:

And I know plenty of women love wigs.

Han:

Like.

Han:

Yeah, we're not.

Rachel:

We're not judging that at all.

Han:

It's just.

Han:

I think just specifically for hen.

Han:

Like, it was another one of those things where it.

Han:

It was like she was doing it because she thought it's what she was supposed to do, so it was part of that.

Han:

And her.

Han:

It was very symbolic of her, like, breaking free of that.

Han:

Like, I am no longer, you know, living any part of my life.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Han:

To do what other people think I should do, what I think other people expect of me.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Han:

Including my appearance.

Han:

So.

Rachel:

And.

Rachel:

And again, it just shows, like, the strength of.

Rachel:

Of her character.

Rachel:

Can we talk a little bit about the two calls that we really see highlighted in her origin?

Rachel:

It's the mudslide.

Rachel:

And then the overturn limousine, because I think those are kind of important to touch on a little bit as well, with how Hen disobeys direct orders from Gerard both times.

Rachel:

Very much so.

Rachel:

Even.

Rachel:

Even though, like, what she does ends up being very much in her favor.

Han:

It.

Rachel:

It's a gamble and it's a risk that she was willing to stake her reputation on.

Rachel:

But also, like, at that point, you know, what did she have to lose sort of thing?

Han:

Well, it was also what she says at the.

Han:

The second call we're talking about here, where Chimney says, like, you could lose, like, you could lose your job.

Han:

He's going to take your job for this if you don't listen to him.

Han:

And she's like, if I don't do this, I don't deserve this job.

Han:

Like, I'm not doing my job.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Han:

So to her, it's less of a fuck you.

Han:

I'm going to do what.

Han:

What I'm going to do because I'm right.

Han:

It's like, I'm going to do my job even if my captain is telling me not to do my job.

Rachel:

It would reflect more poorly on him than it would reflect.

Han:

I don't even think she's thinking about that.

Han:

I think she's just thinking about helping people.

Rachel:

Yeah, she's not thinking of that, but I was thinking of that.

Han:

Oh, yeah, Yeah.

Rachel:

I was just like.

Han:

And it does, at the end of the day, reflect badly on him.

Han:

It does, yeah, at the end of the episode.

Rachel:

But yeah, also at like, the mudslide, that is kind of where we see a lot of this cause and effect, this consequence of her actions sort of thing.

Rachel:

Because when Hen goes ahead and gets the hose to loosen up the mud and everything to get.

Rachel:

To get the mom, even though it's.

Rachel:

To Gerard's point of view, it's pointless because she's going to be dead on arrival sort of thing.

Rachel:

Like, so he didn't even try.

Rachel:

Like, how.

Rachel:

And that's just another instance of how he dehumanizes because he's not even going to give the mom or her daughter, like, the dignity to, like, try everything you can.

Han:

They're supposed to do everything.

Rachel:

Everything can absolutely everything.

Han:

And being like, well, they're going to be dead on arrival at the hospital.

Rachel:

So, yeah, whatever.

Rachel:

And it.

Rachel:

But it was like after that call with the mudslide, that's when Chimney is really trying to, like, get, like, talk to talk to Hen.

Rachel:

That's when they have that conversation.

Rachel:

But I think that's also a point where Chimney, like, really gains some more Respect for her.

Rachel:

Because here Hen is doing things that like, he hasn't really been able to do himself, which is like standing up to Gerard and the rest of the 118.

Rachel:

And it's.

Rachel:

And I think it's because of her position where she's so like, othered by them and chimney is but like, less so.

Rachel:

So I think that gives her.

Han:

They're tolerating him.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Rachel:

So that gives like Hen the opportunity to just be like, you know what?

Rachel:

I'm just gonna do what I'm gonna do.

Han:

I love that call, especially seeing such a great example, like, even early.

Han:

Early on in her career of like, how fucking smart she is.

Han:

Yeah.

Han:

How much ingenuity she has.

Han:

And like, I compare the way she thinks to.

Han:

To Buck a lot.

Han:

Like, in my own head.

Han:

I don't think I've said it on the podcast.

Han:

I think I've said it to you that I think Buck is one of the smartest people on the show.

Han:

I'm like, he's like the second or third most smart.

Han:

Hen is above him.

Han:

But they have such similar ways of on the job, just thinking so out of the box of.

Han:

They're not going, here's the procedure.

Han:

They're going, what is gonna work?

Han:

And they have such a vast array of knowledge where example, her going off with the snake facts in the pilot episode and Buck with all of his B facts.

Han:

And so they just, they're.

Han:

They're just so smart.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Rachel:

And it really shows, like, how for Hen, her greatest asset is her mind herself.

Han:

Yeah.

Rachel:

Yes, her.

Rachel:

Her mind, which is so much more valuable than muscle.

Rachel:

Especially with Gerard being like, you know, I, I don't trust women in the job because how can I trust them to like, be able to lift this person out of the, you know, like all that stuff that past the Academy.

Han:

So obviously I can do that.

Rachel:

I know, like, it's such a.

Rachel:

It's such a so fucking argument.

Rachel:

But it's just like, it's just trying.

Han:

To like, make excuses for his fucking bigotry.

Han:

That's all he's doing.

Rachel:

And it's for the, like that those.

Han:

Kind of people who are rationalize their bigotry.

Rachel:

Yes.

Rachel:

But I was gonna say who are.

Rachel:

Who have learned behaviors that enforce these, like toss toxic masculine, like valuing traditionally masculine traits like strength, like brute strength and everything.

Rachel:

And it's just like they were trying to use their brute strength to pull the.

Rachel:

The tree off of the mom, but that wasn't working.

Rachel:

So like when brute strength and this like very typically masculine kind of sensibility fails, what do you have left to rely on?

Han:

Said brute strength is not winning against physics, right?

Rachel:

So, like, when physical strength fails, strength of mind wins.

Rachel:

So I, I loved, I loved seeing that in action.

Rachel:

And I know we always talk about how Hen uses her, her mind on the job and it's like, super fascinating.

Rachel:

Which she also uses at the, at the car crash scene and she notices these minor details that everyone else has kind of overlooked and that was the difference between life and death for this young boy.

Rachel:

And I mean, like, first of all, that's just fantastic that she even noticed in the first place.

Rachel:

That is like, really and, and kind of understood.

Rachel:

It's, it's the noticing the details and understanding and comprehending what those details mean that makes her logic so efficient.

Rachel:

And I also have to, like, give it to Chimney too, because he sees Hen noticing that and he knows in his, like, heart of hearts that she's right and he wants to do the right thing as well.

Rachel:

So he has her back and, and is really like, it's this moment when they're working together and Hen just like, dives into the lake and Jimmy's just kind of like trying to, you know, make sure she, she comes back up.

Rachel:

It's like, that is the moment, I think, where their bond, like, truly solidified because they were both like, very in it with each other.

Rachel:

And we keep talking about, you know, going back to Bobby's advice from season one, like, you just gotta kind of be in it.

Rachel:

And, you know, she ends up being right, which is fantastic.

Rachel:

And also like, of course she is.

Han:

Hello.

Rachel:

Because she's Hen.

Rachel:

And I love that moment where they kind of like, share this cry together afterwards because it's such a cathartic, like, release because first of all, like, they one did the right thing.

Rachel:

They saved the life of somebody, which is like, so incredible.

Rachel:

Like, but also that was very high tension and they were taking a very big risk going against Gerard again.

Rachel:

And, you know, like, I think like you said Han with Chimney saying, you know, he could have her job for this and she was just going and going into it anyways and he decided to follow and have her back.

Rachel:

So I think it's, it's like this cathartic release of saving someone and also, like, knowing that they did the right thing and that, like, their big risk paid off.

Rachel:

But it's also like, really lovely because it shows how Chimney does not, like, subscribe to that toxic masculinity or nearly as much or is, or is more able to kind of like snap out of it.

Rachel:

Sort of thing.

Rachel:

Because it's like.

Rachel:

It's this healthy expressing of emotions and what a beautiful thing to share with someone even, you know, even when they're on the job.

Rachel:

And, like, they have to compartmentalize, which is also another thing that we keep talking about.

Rachel:

Like, there's that moment where that compartmentalization breaks and you get this lovely, just camaraderie, friendship moment.

Han:

Yeah.

Han:

I don't think she would have cried if anyone else was there.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Rachel:

Oh, absolutely not.

Han:

Yeah.

Han:

It's just that, you know, that that bit of, like, trust and rapport that they had that made her feel, like, safe enough to do that.

Han:

Because she definitely, you know, having to walk through the workplace the way that she does, like.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Han:

Knows not to cry in front of them.

Han:

Right.

Rachel:

Yeah, I think so.

Rachel:

Someone said, like, never let them see you cry.

Rachel:

At some point, I think.

Syl:

I think Chimney does.

Rachel:

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Han:

And he meant them, not him.

Han:

Never let them see you cry.

Han:

And I mean, he's right.

Han:

And I'm.

Han:

I think he even says, like, I'm sure you don't need me to tell you.

Han:

I think he worded it in the way that, like, you know this.

Han:

But I'm just saying it just in case because he, like.

Han:

I don't want to keep going back to Chimney, but I just.

Rachel:

You love Chimney.

Han:

I love Chimney.

Han:

And I love that he wanted to, like, help and protect her and, like, support her and just, like, be a team with her from day one.

Han:

And he was trying really hard to make that happen in any way that she would allow.

Rachel:

Which also I like kind of.

Rachel:

I think there's some equation to be made here or, like, paralleling to Buck and Eddie and.

Rachel:

Because Hen and Chimney are a team, so are Buck and Eddie.

Rachel:

But you also, like, it's.

Rachel:

It's just a really interesting way to kind of compare and contrast.

Rachel:

Like, they're different dynamics, but there are a lot of similarities there, which are very much based in trust.

Han:

Trust and feeling safe to be vulnerable.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Han:

With the other person.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Han:

Hey.

Syl:

Where'S the fire?

Han:

So I think for our last thing, we're going to talk about mostly Gerard and Tommy's treatment of Hen and their interactions, probably mostly at the 118.

Rachel:

I think we really see that.

Rachel:

Like, we'll talk about it just kind of in general, but I think where we see it the most.

Rachel:

So it's really distilled in when they're all sitting down and having mealtime together and kind of wanting to compare and contrast that a little bit from how we see Gerard's captaincy and Bobby's captaincy specifically in how that's portrayed through mealtime or family mealtime, stuff like that.

Han:

So with Gerard, we kind of just see him all over and anywhere she is in the station, like any job she's doing and he's doing this, he is bullying her when he's.

Han:

She hates bullies, he's bullying her, doing that.

Han:

A really gross tactic where it's like you try and like fake them out basically to make them think that like you're, you're being nice and then you pull the rug out from under them.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Rachel:

Like lure her in with a compliment and then just kind of like smack her.

Han:

Yeah, yeah.

Han:

So he does this and it's.

Han:

And it's always very degrading.

Han:

Not just in like him jerking her around and you know, making just like the kind of a regular kind of hazing, I imagine would be like messing up something after it's clean to make them do it again or.

Rachel:

But like, well, we see this later on with like Buck and Ravi and it's just kind of like, you know, the stupid little chores that nobody wants to do and you go make the probe, do it right.

Han:

So you give them a hard time.

Rachel:

But you don't demean them.

Han:

Demean them.

Han:

You don't demean them and basically tell them that like, they're never going to be good enough.

Han:

They don't deserve to be there, they don't belong there.

Han:

And then constantly, just every single comment out of his mouth is so disgusting.

Han:

And it's like it's always followed up by something where it sounds like he's trying to like, justify what he's saying.

Han:

So I don't know if that's like actually his thinks he's being logical.

Han:

I think that is how like racist, prejudiced people think.

Han:

You know what I mean?

Han:

They think that their, their beliefs, that their prejudices are logical.

Han:

Um, so, you know, he has all of these, these reasonings for treating her the way that he does, which is like, well, women can't do this job and my men won't be safe with you.

Han:

And you know, the department's wasting money and it's like, but if she passed the training so she's capable of doing the job or she wouldn't be there.

Han:

It's not.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Rachel:

I mean, I wonder like when.

Rachel:

Okay, so when they are sitting down and he's talking about like, how much does it take of taxpayers dollars to put a, to put a woman through the academy?

Rachel:

And Hannah's just like, I imagine it's the same amount as for a man, but less women complete the academy.

Rachel:

So I mean, I guess I wonder why.

Rachel:

Yeah, so they said like eight women were recruited, but three made it through.

Rachel:

And out of 106 stations, he had to end up with one of those three.

Rachel:

And it's just like, okay, so I'm wondering if he thinks like that, like maybe they go easier on the women in the academy so it looks better on, you know, for the mayor when.

Han:

He'S throwing around words like diversity higher.

Han:

Yeah, thinks that.

Rachel:

So he.

Rachel:

So I'm not sure that he actually believes that she, she actually passed same.

Rachel:

Just that they're same work to go through the academy that a man would.

Rachel:

So I think not.

Rachel:

Again, this is not like justifying anything, but that's the only way that it could make sense to me why he would think that if he's thinking it's just like for, you know, to make the mayor look good and just like to pad the statistics and whatever, like, like a political gain sort of thing.

Rachel:

And it's just like, why wouldn't she be up to the job, like to have the backs of the people she's saving.

Rachel:

And it's, and it's all perceived weakness.

Rachel:

He has not seen nearly enough of her to.

Rachel:

To actually make these sweeping generalizations or, or he's making these sweeping general generalizations.

Rachel:

But he's not getting out of his own way, obviously, because he is one of those awful people to realize that she is surpassing so many expectations just by virtue of who she is.

Rachel:

And it's so, it's just so disparaged, disparaging.

Rachel:

And it centers his own ego a lot because he's talking, he, he talked about like, what did I do to deserve one of the three ladies?

Rachel:

So he sees it like as a punishment, like as an invasion in his like, jurisdiction, his kingdom, if you will.

Rachel:

So it's like he's already like got a chip on his shoulder about that because he's centering himself and his ego because of toxic masculinity.

Rachel:

And how, how did he stay in the job for this long is what I want to know.

Rachel:

Like, if.

Rachel:

Can I bring up at like the very end briefly, like when he is fight like removed as captain?

Syl:

Yes, of course.

Rachel:

Because when hen goes in and talks to.

Rachel:

Is it the chief, one of the chiefs, and he says, you know, they've been, they've gotten a lot of complaints lodged against Gerard and I'm just like, how long have those complaints been coming in and why are they only taking action on it now?

Rachel:

Because are they a, like waiting until like a certain number of complaints, like meet a.

Rachel:

Meet a certain like arbitrary number of a threshold or is it something about which, like I would prefer not to think that one, but I maybe, maybe my optimism is kind of thinking the way that Hen was holding her, holding her own and holding herself and demanding to be respected in the way that like a person should just be given granted instead of having to be earned.

Rachel:

If that kind of leadership, which we know like later on, like she has wonderful leadership skills, if that kind of inspired some of these other guys who weren't as strong as she was to kind of make their, make their stand and make a complaint about stuff because of her example.

Syl:

So I'm going to give you real world.

Syl:

I think those complaints have to build up the short, that's just the short of it.

Rachel:

To an extent.

Syl:

Yeah, to an extent.

Syl:

I think those complaints have to build up and it's got to be like the most egregious thing for someone to take action.

Rachel:

Yeah, unfortunately.

Syl:

But I also, like, I.

Syl:

But I want to think it the way you're thinking it that you know, after showing like her leadership, her skill, especially on that last call and because like Tommy and that other guy, I think Sal.

Syl:

Is that his name?

Rachel:

Yeah, Sal.

Syl:

And Tommy came up to her and like said some words that weren't horrible.

Syl:

I wanted.

Rachel:

They were like less bad than usual.

Syl:

They were less bad than usual.

Han:

And we're like, you're good at your job.

Han:

Thanks.

Syl:

And with like this is gonna go into that.

Syl:

Defending that.

Syl:

Not defending, but I'm gonna talk about him anyway.

Syl:

You know, with what we know about Tommy now, um, I mean, I don't know if you can submit an anonymous complaint about it, but like there obviously there was like probably like some homophobic language thrown around, you know, so maybe he could have submitted a complaint about Gerard completely, hypothetically, could have.

Syl:

Could have used very loosely because that guy, this is the same guy who's like, sounds like Gerard.

Rachel:

I wish Gerard were my dad.

Han:

Here's my thing.

Syl:

Yeah.

Han:

And this is, you know, this could, and I mean probably is very colored by like who I am as a person.

Han:

But just submitting complaints is such a fucking bitch ass move.

Han:

Like you're just going to sit there and let this happen and say nothing.

Han:

That's you're being complicit in it.

Han:

And I get that it's your boss, but like, yeah, you're, you're just sitting by and allowing that to happen and then just submitting complaints.

Han:

And like I get that it worked out in the end.

Rachel:

But, like, how many complaints did they have to receive for them to act on it?

Han:

And they were.

Han:

And they were doing the same.

Han:

They.

Han:

They were treating her the same way.

Han:

I'm sorry, when she started.

Han:

And it wasn't until they were like, oh, I guess you can do the job that you trained the exact same way for.

Han:

As usual, imagine, you know, that they were like, oh, okay, it's all right.

Han:

You're good at your job.

Han:

Like, fuck you.

Han:

Of course I am.

Han:

That's how I got the job.

Han:

And also, like, yeah, I don't.

Han:

I know it's supposed to be like, I think in the storytelling of the episode, just like, kind of like triumphant and like, oh, people actually weren't okay with what was happening.

Han:

But it's like, okay.

Rachel:

How not okay?

Rachel:

Were they?

Han:

Like, okay, you did an action.

Han:

But, like, what's more effective?

Han:

Addressing something head on, like, as a united front and supporting people in the moment or complaining to the manager after the fact?

Rachel:

Like, and I also wonder, like, because with.

Rachel:

With that whole thing, it be.

Rachel:

It comes at such a surprise to hen that, you know, they were gathering all these complaints.

Rachel:

I'm wondering if she even thought to submit a complaint by herself or if.

Han:

I don't think she would.

Rachel:

I don't think she would either.

Rachel:

She's just.

Rachel:

She's just.

Rachel:

She's just gonna, like, for lack of a better term, like, be in the dirt.

Rachel:

Like, be in the mess of it and just kind of, like, trudge through on her own rather than go through, like, the bureaucracy, which I think she was intending to leave with the pharmaceutical company anyways.

Rachel:

So, like, it's also one of those.

Han:

Things where she probably was like, this could reflect bad, like, badly back on me if I'm the person complaining.

Han:

Like, you know.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Rachel:

I just don't think it would even, like, really occur to her to.

Rachel:

To make a formal complaint like that either.

Han:

So.

Han:

Yeah, so it was surprising because she had not even thought of doing that.

Han:

And her co workers, obviously, other than Jim, gave no indication until that moment right before she goes into that room, that they supported her at all.

Rachel:

Like, and it's like, where was that support when you needed it?

Rachel:

And it.

Rachel:

And, like, was it only after she addressed all of them by honking that big horn and making that speech and demanding basic human, like, dignity in her workplace?

Rachel:

Like, oh, she.

Han:

And I think, can I transition into talking about Tommy here?

Han:

I think is a good spot.

Han:

So I think.

Han:

I think people think that this conversation is a lot more nuanced Than I think it is.

Han:

Some people think that it is because Tommy is gay and he is in this situation where it's not a friendly place to be such.

Han:

Right.

Han:

So he is closeted, but.

Han:

But he's taking part in this stuff and he doesn't need to.

Han:

Like, you can look at Chim, who's clearly getting by just fine.

Han:

Like, sure, he's still catching some strays, but, like, yeah, it's.

Rachel:

It's not great.

Rachel:

And it's still like a battle, but it's.

Han:

Right.

Han:

But he's not partaking in the kind of language of calling her a.

Han:

Which is, wow, there's so many layers of why that was so wrong.

Han:

So sexist and racist.

Han:

Yeah, I just.

Han:

So to me, people.

Han:

People can be redeemed, right?

Han:

People can be redeemed if they.

Han:

They learn and they grow and they show you that they have learned and they have grown.

Han:

Yeah.

Rachel:

Like, they put in the work and the effort to.

Han:

Yes, exactly.

Han:

And you also have to make amends to the people that you hurt if they're going to continue to, like, be in your life.

Han:

So I.

Han:

I just don't.

Han:

I can't find.

Han:

I just can't find an excuse.

Han:

I.

Han:

I know that the excuse is that he was, you know, closeted and scared of being, like, found out, but, like, were you really?

Han:

You're sitting at the table calling her a bitch and they're, like, making a gay joke about you and you're, like, blowing a kiss at them.

Han:

Yeah, they're like, so how scared were you really?

Rachel:

There's a difference between, you know, not between not participating, which is, I think, what Chimney does, and a difference between actively participating in.

Rachel:

In causing harm, you know, like, mentally, emotionally.

Rachel:

And he.

Rachel:

Tommy is engaging in the latter.

Rachel:

Like, he is actively antagonistic towards hen.

Rachel:

And you would think that as someone who is gay and closeted about it.

Rachel:

Like, of course.

Rachel:

Just like I said with Chimp, there's, like, some essence of, like, survival tactic there.

Rachel:

I get it.

Rachel:

Like, if you can't beat him, join them, but you don't have to join them that hard.

Rachel:

So, like, as someone who is also.

Rachel:

Who would also, like, experience a lot of, like, the blowback, like, how it's.

Rachel:

So it frames him.

Rachel:

Again, looking back from what we know now to this episode, it frames him as a hypocrite, which is not what you want to be.

Han:

Oh, I was going to say.

Han:

But Chim, could he have done more?

Han:

Yeah, we could argue semantics, but he was very obviously verbally addressing the moments that he was seeing, even to Gerard.

Rachel:

So it's not like chimney was, like, silent.

Han:

He wasn't complicated and complicit in it.

Han:

He was saying things like.

Han:

I think he was saying as much as he could without, like, jeopardizing his job.

Han:

Right.

Han:

So, yeah, I don't know.

Han:

It's just night and day to me.

Han:

It's.

Han:

It's night and day to me.

Han:

How, you know, there's two people, you know, there's a gay person, an Asian person, and like, they both, you know, can suffer discrimination in that environment.

Han:

But, like, it's night and day.

Han:

Yeah, how they treated her and how they reacted to how everyone else was treating her.

Han:

And there's just no reason that Tommy needed to do that.

Han:

Like, he didn't need to partake in it.

Han:

He could have just literally done nothing, and it would have been better.

Rachel:

He didn't have to add coal to the fire.

Han:

Yes, exactly.

Rachel:

And, yeah, that's.

Rachel:

That's kind of the rub of it all.

Rachel:

So, like, while they're kind of all at this mealtime table, just quickly, like, you see, they're kind of having.

Rachel:

I think Chimney has, like, tacos.

Rachel:

I don't know if anybody has.

Rachel:

If they all have, like, the same meal or if they're, like, eating different things.

Rachel:

But it seems like, you know, very not homemade, like they were taking out.

Rachel:

And while everybody was kind of, like, gathered around at the same time to eat together, it is very different from the kind of family meal time and that kind of rapport and environment that we see under Bobby's captaincy, where, you know, he's.

Rachel:

He's preparing the meal and people are helping prepare the meal, and it's at the table and it's just like, such a stark thing to compare and contrast because it's like, with Bobby, it's very much like this is a family unit.

Rachel:

Everyone is, like, in it together and helping each other and, like, lifting each other up.

Rachel:

But with Gerard's, it's kind of just like every man for himself sort of thing.

Rachel:

It's very individualistic, which is, I think, one of.

Rachel:

One of the reasons why Hen was so, you know, intent on making it on her own.

Rachel:

Because it's like nobody else is, you know, kind of really partnered up together either.

Rachel:

And so like, there's just like, this not environment, this landscape of I'm on my own here, I'm on my own kid.

Rachel:

So I just really like to look at both of those together and the differences between, like, how Bobby, I think, is a quintessential leader and like a delegator and you know, has every, every kind of like, leadership quality that you want to see and that would make someone want to follow.

Rachel:

Whereas Gerard is very.

Rachel:

Just like it's a dictatorship.

Han:

Yeah, well, and you can see why, if you've even taking the emotionality and the family aspect out of it, comparing the current 118 to Gerard's past 118, why the current one is a much better team and just like better at their jobs because they all respect each other, trust each other to like, do do their own jobs, obviously have their backs if they, they need it.

Han:

But also they trust the different areas of expertise and ingenuity and like, you know, it isn't just all Bobby saying jump and them saying how high.

Han:

Like there is camaraderie in, you know, it's.

Han:

It's much more of like.

Han:

Yes.

Rachel:

And collaborating.

Han:

There is a hierarchy because like, ultimately, like, Bobby is in charge.

Han:

But also ultimately people are going to disobey him and all he's going to do is say, please don't do that, and then.

Han:

But they're going to continue to do it and he's going to allow them to.

Han:

Because at the end of the day, like, he trusts his team to, to be smart and competent in ways that he might not think of.

Han:

Right?

Rachel:

Yeah.

Syl:

Yeah, I think he.

Syl:

He definitely trusts them.

Syl:

To me, maybe not.

Syl:

Well, he trusts them enough to make the best decision that they can based off of whatever circumstances there are, you know, whatever's happening.

Rachel:

And he has faith in his team.

Syl:

Yeah, basically.

Syl:

I mean, there times when certain members of the team makes them really, really, really, really dumb choices.

Syl:

But like, but there's heart in it.

Syl:

There's heart.

Rachel:

Good intention.

Syl:

There's good intention.

Syl:

There's heart in it.

Syl:

And the only thing they're going to really get is a slap on the wrist and be like, don't do that again.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Rachel:

At Evan Buckley, I had absolutely no clue that's who you were talking about.

Han:

He's never done anything stupid in his entire life.

Han:

No, I've never called him stupid in a single episode.

Rachel:

He's so smart sometimes.

Rachel:

He does dumb things.

Rachel:

He's so smart in a smart way.

Rachel:

Yeah, Smart, dumb.

Syl:

The Pendulum sacrificing.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Syl:

Post shooting.

Syl:

Come on.

Syl:

But there's heart in there.

Rachel:

Yeah, but you gotta have heart.

Syl:

Oh, my gosh.

Syl:

Well, anyway, I can't wait to see Tommy Bones.

Rachel:

I just also wanted to say something about Gerard really quickly about, you know, how we learn.

Rachel:

We kind of learn maybe like a little bit of why, very loosely, why.

Rachel:

He's like one of those Awful People when he's talking to Hen after they lose the mom from the mudslide.

Rachel:

Because Hen went beyond the glass doors and looked it up and Gerard was like, you remind me of when I was a rookie and I didn't want to disappoint my captain and I checked up on calls to find out how the people he treated turned out.

Rachel:

But he stopped after a month or two.

Rachel:

And that just like really kind of brought it back to me to Gloria from Awful People about how she was saying that, like she just couldn't take like all of those dead end calls where she couldn't do anything else.

Rachel:

And it's just like there are ways to deal with that stuff without being a terrible person.

Rachel:

So like, you as much as, like that kind of goes to say, you know, there are reasons why people become these awful people.

Rachel:

That doesn't mean that it's the right way to deal with that as well.

Rachel:

So I just, I did kind of like appreciate having that little bit of backstory because we also see like how it's hardened Gerard.

Rachel:

But like we, what we said at the beginning, Hen has always had a big warm heart and compassion is one of her superpowers and that has never broken her.

Rachel:

So like she is just a stronger person in general for, you know, especially up against Gerard who thinks he's like big and mighty strong man, you know, and, and also that man is a grandfather.

Rachel:

He said he has two granddaughters.

Rachel:

And I'm just like, what kind of pew are you?

Rachel:

Do you, do you dote on your granddaughters?

Rachel:

Like, are you, are you a nice loving grandpa or are you just kind of like he's like the, I don't.

Syl:

Know, he's giving the sarcastic grump.

Syl:

I don't know.

Rachel:

Yeah, but I kind of feel like in some weird way he probably like spoils his grandchildren.

Rachel:

And I just don't know what to do with those kind of thoughts and I don't want them.

Syl:

I was just going to say it just.

Syl:

I don't know why that just made me think.

Syl:

I don't know, I just thought.

Syl:

That just made me think of like how he just like, because this is the first time we ever see him like show some kind of weird ass affection and it's to Buck, you know, after Buck saves him.

Syl:

So it's kind of like, is this how he.

Rachel:

Is this how he is?

Syl:

Is this how he is to his family?

Rachel:

Like, oh God, what kind of family man is he?

Rachel:

You know, Is he a hard ass like this?

Rachel:

Or does he get his rocks off like Being the, the guy in charge.

Syl:

At work, you know, maybe there are people like that.

Rachel:

Yeah, I don't want to think about that.

Han:

I will add an addendum to that on a personal note and then I will say the two things that hopefully I won't forget as someone who grew up with one or two older family members who might have been some of the ists.

Han:

Right.

Han:

I don't know how they were to like other people or in their job or workplace or whatever, but like, were great to me as a kid or like at my perception of like being great.

Han:

Like they were not mean.

Han:

But then like growing up as an adult and being like, so, like he could totally be a good grandfather.

Han:

But it's so weird to like think about that juxtaposition of how people act like in their personal lives versus their work life or like how, like how people.

Han:

How sometimes like people really hide their prejudice.

Han:

And then when you find it out, you're like, where the fuck did that come from?

Han:

Yeah, it just popped out of nowhere.

Han:

So I feel like maybe that's kind of how he is and he just like lets it roll free in the firehouse because that is the kind of environment that he created and it's okay for it to be that way there.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Rachel:

And it, and it also shows like, you know, these aren't one dimensional caricatures of people.

Rachel:

Like they are like, they do have rich, like these characters have like rich lives.

Rachel:

And you know, people can be multifaceted but also do better.

Rachel:

Like just do better.

Rachel:

Sorry, go ahead.

Han:

So the two things, two things, and they're closely related is talking about Gerard and Tommy compared from season two to seeing them again in season seven and eight.

Han:

And then also the weird intentionality of.

Han:

Actually, I'll talk about that first.

Han:

Probably should have talked about it in Deep Dive.

Han:

How do they remember all of the like little characters that they've had?

Han:

And this is what makes.

Han:

One of the many reasons makes this show so great is that they remember this shit and then they bring them back in opportunities that like make it make sense.

Han:

So like maybe in subtext, looking back at Hembigans, you could be like, oh, maybe Tommy is a friend of Dorothy.

Han:

But like you wouldn't.

Han:

You know what I mean?

Han:

Like, there's just like that one joke and he does, you must be team Jacob.

Han:

And he says, and he's.

Han:

Well, no, he.

Han:

He says, I'm team Jacob or something.

Han:

Yeah, anyway, but.

Han:

But then Tim Myn ear was like, oh, I need a helicopter pilot.

Han:

Oh, the one I want isn't available.

Han:

Oh, well, there's this other helicopter pilot.

Han:

And then his brain goes, oh, wait, okay, wait, yeah.

Han:

Oh, wait, he's.

Han:

He's totally gay.

Han:

That's what that was.

Han:

And then just.

Han:

And then it blows up into, you know what?

Han:

It ended up being so interesting to me.

Han:

And then I wonder if, like, bringing him back is what, like, made him think about Gerard too.

Han:

Like, I just, I just want to know like, how his brain works when he's like bringing back these old characters.

Han:

Because it's so interesting to me the way that they like have these minor characters, like, well, except for Tommy, because we still don't fucking know anything about him.

Han:

They can like build up, you know, pretty three dimensional, these like, pretty background characters that have very little screen time.

Rachel:

Sure.

Rachel:

No, I think in, in regards to whether Tim was, whether, you know, the idea of bringing Tommy back was the impetus to bringing Gerard back, I kind of feel like it was a two birds, one stone kind of situation, which indicates, you know, using a character as more of a plot device.

Rachel:

Just saying, like, I kind of feel like.

Rachel:

With.

Rachel:

Because I feel like Tim Mynier plays 3D chess with this show.

Rachel:

Okay, so.

Rachel:

So I feel like in Building Season 7, he would already have an idea of where he wants season seven to end so that he can start with season eight with that kind of like ground.

Rachel:

Groundwork already done.

Rachel:

So I think it just kind of like probably happened fairly simultaneously where there was maybe an opportunity to.

Rachel:

To be like, yeah, I need to bring someone back for Buck.

Rachel:

But also who in our like, deep, deep, you know, recesses compendium of characters can we bring back?

Rachel:

And it just so happened that Tommy is so connected to Gerard and that's kind of where he was probably planning on going anyways to have like, Bobby be replaced as temporarily as he needed it to be.

Rachel:

So I, in my mind those are kind of.

Rachel:

They happened kind of simultaneously at like, you know, just one of those opportunities of fate, you know, that he was like, ah, yes, this will work perfectly for, you know, for this reason and this reason.

Rachel:

And it's going to tie together in this way.

Rachel:

And it's just like I divined it, you know.

Han:

Yeah.

Rachel:

So that's kind of my official opinion on that is that it happened kind of simultaneously as a benefit from one and the other two birds, one stone plot device.

Syl:

Yep, I agree.

Syl:

All that co signed.

Rachel:

That's all.

Rachel:

Sorry.

Han:

So just really quickly, I just wanted to compare, contrast how these characters are portrayed or I guess like the evolution of them from season two to season seven, eight so with Tommy, the last time we see him, he's like barely tolerating head and gem.

Han:

Right?

Rachel:

Yeah, yeah.

Han:

Where he's like, I guess you're good at your job.

Han:

You saved my life.

Han:

I guess you're fine.

Han:

You know what I mean?

Han:

Like, that's the last time we see him.

Han:

And then the next time we see him, we're, we're like supposed to look at him as like some big hero and then like.

Han:

Right.

Han:

Because he helps them save.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Han:

Bobby and Athena and seems to an end.

Rachel:

They had a connection.

Han:

Or he had a connection.

Rachel:

I know, yeah.

Rachel:

Not they had a connection.

Rachel:

You know what I mean?

Han:

But I'm saying the way that he is portrayed, from going from that to like this and then to me, and I don't think the show is ever going to address it, to be honest with you.

Han:

I don't think they're ever going to call back to how he treated them.

Han:

I really don't think they will because I think if they were going to do that kind of thing, they would have done it with Gerard.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Han:

And they really didn't.

Han:

They were just, they kind of just alluded to him being a piece of shit.

Han:

Right.

Han:

So I don't think they're ever, they're.

Rachel:

Ever going to do that player in that.

Han:

But yeah, but yeah, to me, if you're someone who is, who really follows this show, to me there's not really a redemption there without an arc of actually making amends and showing me that you've changed.

Han:

And I have not seen anything in your behavior of how you talk about Gerard or are dismissive of people that shows me that you've really changed.

Rachel:

And then not that there's been much opportunity to show that, but also like you can make opportunity to show that.

Rachel:

And the fact that they're not is also, I think speaks volumes.

Han:

So.

Han:

And then with Gerard, they kind of like, I don't want to say they woobified him, but they.

Han:

I feel like this is our awoke version of Gerard where he's not saying like outright like racist, sexist, homophobe.

Han:

Well, he is.

Han:

He has said some homophobic things, so that's still there.

Syl:

He was just deliberately saying it's more subtle to the point that the racist.

Han:

Sexist stuff I think is I either need to rewatch it to really find it or it's downplayed and he's more just like a general generic, like cartoon villain, kind of like hard ass antagonist.

Syl:

Well, think about it.

Syl:

Like, I mean, he was just brought back to the same firehouse that he got fired from.

Syl:

So, like, maybe he.

Syl:

Like, I think the idea or the assumption was that he had to tone it down a lot.

Syl:

Like, this is just a way to make it make sense.

Syl:

Right.

Han:

Yeah.

Syl:

Tone it down.

Syl:

What I was thinking so that he doesn't get fired again.

Rachel:

Like.

Rachel:

Like he was still on.

Rachel:

Even though he may have friends in high places.

Rachel:

He's still on kind of like the department.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Han:

Yeah.

Rachel:

So like he's toeing the line as much as he could.

Syl:

Yeah.

Rachel:

With that stuff.

Rachel:

And takes it out in more of like the general kind of like dictatorship and hazing and stuff.

Rachel:

And.

Rachel:

And like focusing.

Han:

He's still a fucking bully.

Han:

Oh, he's still a bully.

Han:

And he's still very self interested.

Han:

Like, I don't think that he.

Han:

You know, we do see him taking the job seriously when he is out in the field, but he also is not taking input from people on what could actually help.

Rachel:

He has to have the final.

Han:

He's got his power trip and then he's like berating dispatch.

Han:

Like, they can control.

Han:

It's like, y'all not service food workers.

Han:

I know.

Han:

This man complains to the like $7 an hour chipotle workers.

Syl:

I need a Josh.

Syl:

Say some.

Rachel:

I know.

Rachel:

It's like, what.

Rachel:

What good is that going to do to berate the.

Han:

Exactly.

Rachel:

The dispatch people.

Han:

So I don't really think that we see growth.

Han:

I think we just see him toned down probably from the times a little bit.

Han:

Right.

Han:

tone it down because it's not:

Han:

So there's been some progression and also for his job.

Han:

But we, at the end of season of season of episode three, when we see him actually help, you know, Henren get Mara back four episodes.

Han:

That was all self interest.

Han:

That was all self interest.

Rachel:

Oh, yeah, that was 804.

Rachel:

Not.

Han:

Oh, sorry, episode four.

Han:

But yeah, that was all self interest.

Han:

He did not.

Rachel:

That is not a redemption arc.

Han:

No, no, that's not a redemption arc.

Han:

I know that I like yelled it, but I was joking.

Syl:

Here's your little disclaimer.

Han:

I just, I just.

Han:

I just need to be clear that if you ever hear me going redemption for like literally anyone on the show.

Han:

I'm joking.

Han:

I'm joking.

Han:

I can't think of a single character that I'd be like, I'd love to see a redemption arc for them.

Han:

Yeah.

Syl:

No, not.

Han:

No.

Han:

So I don't think they have enough time to write redemption arcs for, like, minor characters.

Han:

Like, they don't do well with that.

Han:

Anyway.

Han:

But anyway, it was just self serving and he got to like, go get his British cookie.

Han:

That's all he wanted.

Han:

He wanted the British cookie.

Han:

He did not give a single fuck.

Rachel:

It's not a British cookie.

Rachel:

That's a biscuit.

Han:

Sorry.

Han:

It's a biscuit.

Han:

God.

Han:

But yeah, Gerard just wanted.

Han:

He wanted to protect himself.

Han:

Oh, my God.

Han:

Bobby played him, Played him like a.

Han:

Because he's so easy to read.

Han:

He only cares about himself and cares about looking good because he is a.

Rachel:

Creature made entirely of ego.

Han:

And we learn.

Han:

I mean, we probably already.

Han:

I think we talked about deducing this already, even without talking about season eight.

Han:

But he straight up basically says that, like, he doesn't care about firefighting.

Han:

Like, he doesn't care about the job when he's talking to Bobby because he's like, oh, you've got it made here, like.

Han:

And Bobby's like, I miss the job.

Han:

Like, that's where I want to be.

Han:

And Gerard's like, are you kidding?

Rachel:

Well, he says, like, he says Bobby's got it made here because, yeah, you know, if, if they, you know, require his expertise, they have to take that into account and follow those orders, which is Gerard's like, that is his dream job.

Rachel:

Because he doesn't have to deal with people disregarding what he says as law.

Rachel:

Like, he just, he lays down the law.

Rachel:

And then the people on Hotshots are like, aye, aye, Captain.

Rachel:

Because you're the expert.

Syl:

You're just.

Rachel:

Yeah, but they, but they're, they're going to end up looking down on him and it's going to be the shoes.

Han:

On the other foot.

Rachel:

And I think we're going to see that in 807 hot shots.

Han:

Oh, my God.

Rachel:

Maybe if it's not, if it's not like a completely meta episode of Hot.

Han:

Shots, I want it to be meta, but, like, interspersed with like the 118 watching it being like, what the f.

Han:

Is this play about us?

Han:

Is this play about us?

Han:

Exactly.

Han:

Yeah, that's what I need anyways.

Han:

Anyways, so I think that wraps it up for the Gerard and Tommy of it all.

Han:

And I guess just to talk about Hen a little bit to close it off, because I don't want to end an episode talking about no, those men.

Rachel:

Hashtag, those men.

Syl:

Those men.

Han:

Those men.

Han:

So, yeah, I love this development of Hen's character and I think it really gives you great insight into her motivations and why she does things and how.

Rachel:

Far she had to come.

Han:

Right.

Han:

And that we haven't really seen before.

Han:

Right.

Han:

Because I think she keeps that kind of stuff close to.

Han:

To her chest and oh my God, learning about how that is from Aisha's life, the getting shot when she was 16, that is crazy.

Han:

That is crazy.

Rachel:

Right?

Rachel:

And the thing about her dad learning both of those just absolutely broke my heart for Aisha.

Rachel:

But I'm so grateful that she was a willing to share some of those parts of herself with intention of putting it in Hen's story, but also just the coincidence of the other one and just very grateful that those instances that she experienced in real life she was able to explore in a different sense, but also like present it so meaningfully for the audience because, like, we didn't know that until just now.

Rachel:

Like.

Rachel:

And I think next time I rewatch Hen Begins, I'm going to remember that and just like.

Rachel:

Or just like any henna episode, but I'm going to remember that and it's going to just the experience of her character so much richer as well.

Han:

I think it's also just great that they directly address because you can look at a black queer woman and deduce that she has dealt with prejudice and probably has to deal with a lot of shit to get where she is in the job that she's in.

Han:

But I think it's really great that they actually told that story and showed that story and I think it's really good representation.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Han:

Especially for like the kind of wide general audience that watches the show.

Han:

Yeah, probably, maybe hopefully eye opening for some people a little bit.

Han:

I think it's just a really beautiful episode.

Han:

I love all of the begins episodes.

Rachel:

Yeah, they're all so good.

Rachel:

And this was like the first real one, so.

Han:

The first.

Rachel:

Thank you.

Han:

Technical one.

Han:

Yeah.

Han:

But yeah, amazing props to Aisha for her performance for this whole episode and.

Rachel:

Geez, she really had to pull.

Rachel:

Pull her weight with this because she's in.

Han:

She literally the emotional gambit.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Rachel:

And she's in like almost.

Rachel:

She's in like every scene.

Rachel:

That's a lot of work.

Syl:

Yeah.

Syl:

I just, I just love watching her super emotional scenes.

Syl:

I mean, every single, like emotional speech or where she's like standing up for herself in any kind of way.

Syl:

Just Aisha just hits it out of the park.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Syl:

Every single freaking time.

Syl:

And I know we've got another like emotional tear jerker.

Syl:

Not really a begin story, but I know we have.

Syl:

We've got something in season three that honestly, like literally breaks my heart when she performs that.

Syl:

So it's like.

Syl:

But she's so good.

Syl:

So good.

Rachel:

What is that one?

Syl:

The Ambulance.

Han:

The ambulance.

Rachel:

Oh, my God.

Rachel:

How did I forget that?

Rachel:

Oh, no.

Han:

I am feeling whatever feeling the hen is feeling.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Han:

You know, it's just so palpable.

Rachel:

Like, whatever is the opposite of an empath, you know, like, instead of just like the empath absorbing someone's energy, I think you should just, like, radiate that energy and you have, like, no choice but to like, take that into your soul.

Han:

Yeah.

Han:

She's amazing.

Han:

And I love.

Rachel:

We love getting.

Han:

I love getting to know more about her, especially like, doing the re.

Han:

Re.

Han:

Re.

Han:

I don't.

Han:

I know we call it a rewatch podcast, but we're like watching like two to.

Han:

For me, sometimes five, six times.

Han:

So I just feel like you notice more and more every time you watch these episodes.

Rachel:

So.

Han:

Yeah, I think that's all I got to say.

Rachel:

No slow burn.

Han:

No slow burn.

Han:

Sad note to the audience.

Han:

It is 3am on October 24th when we're about to watch masks season eight, episode five, masks.

Syl:

So we'll see you guys on the other side.

Han:

We'll be different people the next time you see andor hear us.

Syl:

And also, we do have episode six of season eight called Confessions.

Syl:

What?

Han:

These are my confessions.

Rachel:

Episode six of season eight.

Syl:

Episode six of season eight called Confessions.

Syl:

That's going to be airing on the anniversary the.

Syl:

Of the destiel confession scene.

Rachel:

Well, the anniversary week.

Syl:

The anniversary week.

Syl:

So be prepared not to sleep.

Rachel:

There will be a before that episode.

Rachel:

You know, life before and life after.

Han:

BC and AC.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Syl:

Wow.

Han:

Before Confessions.

Rachel:

Oh, before Confessions.

Han:

After Confessions.

Han:

These are my confessions.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Rachel:

Then we will be different people.

Han:

We got a work dashboard confessional into talking about that episode somehow.

Rachel:

Oh, I'm sure you can work on that.

Rachel:

I'll.

Han:

Okay, remember, don't disobey direct orders from your boss by actually doing your job.

Syl:

But if you do, take a buddy with you.

Han:

Thank you for listening to the Buddy System podcast from start to finish.

Syl:

We literally cannot shut up about 911, so please come talk to us on your favorite social media platform.

Rachel:

We are at Buddy System Pod, everyone.

Rachel:

That's bu d d I e System Pod.

Han:

Leave a five star review on Spotify or Apple podcasts to get a personal shout out in the next episode.

Han:

The Buddy System is a nerd virgin media production featuring music from Divinity.

Syl:

Can't get enough of the Buddies.

Syl:

Subscribe to our Patreon for access to exclusive content in our Discord community.

Rachel:

Catch you next time.

Rachel:

And don't forget, bring a buddy with.

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About the Podcast

The Buddie System
Three friends uncover the surprising depths of a procedural show
that masterfully balances laughable unseriousness with charming
characters and heartwarming stories.

The Buddie System Podcast embarks on witty, insightful
conversations analyzing the characters and relationships on 9-1-1
through an elevated critical lens.
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